Its so good to meet someone who gives back to the pastime they enjo- oh wait...nomercyrules10 said:
10 Ways to Fight Piracy
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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DRM promotes piracy, because who the hell is going to buy a game that they're limited to installs? No one. I hop right to the console version, which oddly I'm wondering if it's their intention in some way. The only game I have with DRM is Farcry 2 which I got free with my video card.
Yeah I have crysis and I was confused by that too, there's no DRM, only SecureROM (or some similar medium) to make sure the disc is there.Epifols said:
I wrote a email today asking the same thing. I'm still waiting for EA to realize that they have Crysis Warhead on Steam, but it still comes with limited activations with SecuROM. Seriously, that is the only reason I haven't played that game yet, and they have it on Steam for Christ's sake, isn't that enough?Snotnarok said:
I think you unintentionally answered the Piracy problem, use steam, because they seem to have it down. Sure their customer service is beyond bad but you get a game, register it and you're good to go, forever. I heard from a friend that they said "if they ever go out of business they will unlock all their games" so hot damn Piracy issue should be solved with them. You can buy games in a store, or off their site and register it with steam, no DRM (of course you should check if Non-valve games have it or not) or any thing of the sort. Oh, and unlike Resident Evil 5, free updates and unlike Gears of War, Halo, other shooters FREE maps and FREE new guns with their games.ROBO_LEADER said:
That's one thing I wish Xbox Live Marketplace would take to heart.Shamus Young said:
Instead, they end up proving my fear that digital distribution will keep prices up. Sure, occasionally they'll have a sale, but (1) it tends to be on their better-selling content, not the items that could actually use a price drop to spur sales, and (2) the prices go back up to full price at the end of the sale anyway.
The Arcade games released at the system's launch are still at full price, and there are games you can get on the open market now for a lower price than the DLC for those games on Marketplace. Insane.
I didn't buy Crysis myself, and based my statements on what I'd found in Google:Epifols said:
http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62356
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=80&threadid=2119254
And now I see that the three install limit is most likely talking about Crysis Warhead:
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/41635/Crysis-Warhead-Includes-Three-Activation-Spore-Like-DRM
As for "getting the facts straight", this is actually extremely hard to do, because publishers obfuscate their DRM as much as possible. I can't find any official statement from the publishers in places where a customer might expect to find it. (Along side system requirements and such.) Gamers don't REALLY know what the DRM is like until somebody gets the game, peeks under the hood, and announces their findings in a forum. If publishers want accurate reporting on their DRM, they can start by accurately reporting on their DRM.
This is in addition to the way they try to re-define DRM. Case in point: The install limit was removed from BioShock, but they left in SecuROM and online activation. Then they announced they were "removing the DRM".
On the Demo: I guess I should have been more explicit. The demo didn't come out until after release:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis
But there is indeed a demo out now.
I'll send off a correction & a clarification. Thanks for pointing that out.
Dang. I was wrong on both points. The demo was delayed, but was still apparently out around launch time.
Sigh. TWO corrections.
Sigh. TWO corrections.
Shamus Young: Quickly becoming the smartest games commentator on the web.
Number 9 is the argument that makes the most sense to me. I was explaining to my aging father, who has absolutely no drive to care about games (outside of the first Call of Duty game and some old Sierra Entertainment titles), about the piracy issue and what a load of crap the industry makes it's customers jump through every time it releases a game, and that was the first thing he mentioned: Wal-Mart and shrinkage. I think it's a joke that we've come up with a separate title for information theft ("piracy" means so much more than just theft, which is more or less what it is). This isn't a new crime, it's not even a new trend. It's simply an old crime perpetrated via a new medium. It can be easily combated by modifying old tactics for the new medium. Like back in the day, when cars were invented. They were being stolen. So the car companies put locks on the door. They didn't electrify the car, they didn't make it explode, they didn't do anything ridiculous and crazy. They looked at the problem, then they went to the tried and true method, but adapted the locking mechanism for a car. The games industry looked at theft of a product and went "F*** the old way. Let's just shake down our honest customers to send a message to these thieves."
I don't know who came up with "DRM" but he must be a certifiable idiot.
Number 9 is the argument that makes the most sense to me. I was explaining to my aging father, who has absolutely no drive to care about games (outside of the first Call of Duty game and some old Sierra Entertainment titles), about the piracy issue and what a load of crap the industry makes it's customers jump through every time it releases a game, and that was the first thing he mentioned: Wal-Mart and shrinkage. I think it's a joke that we've come up with a separate title for information theft ("piracy" means so much more than just theft, which is more or less what it is). This isn't a new crime, it's not even a new trend. It's simply an old crime perpetrated via a new medium. It can be easily combated by modifying old tactics for the new medium. Like back in the day, when cars were invented. They were being stolen. So the car companies put locks on the door. They didn't electrify the car, they didn't make it explode, they didn't do anything ridiculous and crazy. They looked at the problem, then they went to the tried and true method, but adapted the locking mechanism for a car. The games industry looked at theft of a product and went "F*** the old way. Let's just shake down our honest customers to send a message to these thieves."
I don't know who came up with "DRM" but he must be a certifiable idiot.
As for demos, damn, GTA IV could have used one, even if it only simulated a small area of the map, just so we could see how an area worked, limit us to 2 stars wanted, 3 or 4 types of cars, and a couple of missions maybe.
I heard of so many people who just flatly wouldn't buy it, as they'd heard it wouldn't run on their PC.
I succumbed to temptation when it got a discount on Steam, only to find out at 640x480, with all settings on 'low' or 'none', I was getting less than one fps.
However, moving onto 'looking after your customers', they later released a patch fixing many issues, and adding more scaling down, and I can now play it at 1024x768 at about 10-15fps, jerky, but vaguely playable at least.
They've essentially inflated a problem to sell a fix that doesn't work. I just can't see the mentality in 'We're losing money to pirates, quick, lets lose $200,000 to DRM instead, that way we can lose money and customers and popularity in the business all in go!'
Now taking GTA IV as an example, I probably would have pirated it, but the DRM maybe did hold off on a working copy being available soon, plus the idea of downloading 16gb was putting me off, too. However, I don't believe having to wait a week or two, or in most cases mere days, will persuade a pirate to go buy a real copy.
However, if I'd had the chance to download a demo, I'd have either bought it immediately, or not bought it or pirated it. To add another of his points, I then saw it on a good offer on Steam, and laid out the cash for it, worth the risk I felt, and would push me to upgrade in the future.
Would the money then not have been better spent providing a playable demo and perhaps more quality multiplayer content? You only have to look at things like WOW and TF2 to show that good multiplayer means people will buy to join in. (Lets not have the WOW = good lulz debate again please).
I heard of so many people who just flatly wouldn't buy it, as they'd heard it wouldn't run on their PC.
I succumbed to temptation when it got a discount on Steam, only to find out at 640x480, with all settings on 'low' or 'none', I was getting less than one fps.
However, moving onto 'looking after your customers', they later released a patch fixing many issues, and adding more scaling down, and I can now play it at 1024x768 at about 10-15fps, jerky, but vaguely playable at least.
No, the person who came up with DRM is a genius, who must have heard the conspiracy theory that viruses are made and released by anti virus companies.He's found a way of selling something hugely expensive that doesn't work, that companies don't need and customers don't want.HobbesMkii said:
They've essentially inflated a problem to sell a fix that doesn't work. I just can't see the mentality in 'We're losing money to pirates, quick, lets lose $200,000 to DRM instead, that way we can lose money and customers and popularity in the business all in go!'
Now taking GTA IV as an example, I probably would have pirated it, but the DRM maybe did hold off on a working copy being available soon, plus the idea of downloading 16gb was putting me off, too. However, I don't believe having to wait a week or two, or in most cases mere days, will persuade a pirate to go buy a real copy.
However, if I'd had the chance to download a demo, I'd have either bought it immediately, or not bought it or pirated it. To add another of his points, I then saw it on a good offer on Steam, and laid out the cash for it, worth the risk I felt, and would push me to upgrade in the future.
Would the money then not have been better spent providing a playable demo and perhaps more quality multiplayer content? You only have to look at things like WOW and TF2 to show that good multiplayer means people will buy to join in. (Lets not have the WOW = good lulz debate again please).
Well, I'm a developer and I'm certainly taking note and of the same thinking. I do think these tips are as useful to developers (especially indie devs who are their own publishers in most cases) as they are to publishers!
Obvious troll is obvious. Soup kitchen my ass.nomercyrules10 said:
Get out of the thread you dumb ass, if you don't care, don't post, because frankly we don't care if you pay for your games or not, because you come off as a dick either way.
Concise article Shamus, barring the Crysis tidbit at the end.
I can agree with some but where you said something about leaked games. It's not the devs fault they get leaked. The games themselves are at our store at least a week beforehand (and whoknows how long it's in the transportation pipeline.) I remember halo 3 and GTA 4 sitting in pallets in the backroom for a week before release protected only by a "do not open till" sticker. So it's just as simple as grabbing a copy somewhere along the line and putting it up on torrents a week or two before release.
See now when i read the title i thought there might actually be some decent ideas of how to effectively(ish) reduce piracy....apparently i was so very very wrong.
1. how exactly is dropping it supposed to reduce piracy...? Just because spore was pirated in protest doesn't mean it'll reduce piracy from normal levels. (i'd give an example of a major game without drm being pirated but i cant actually find one that doesnt have it...)
2. As wow forums have demonstrated so very very well. Public dev interaction leads to one thing only. Abuse thrown at them by peple who think they've done a rubbish job. They arn't friends or even random associates of the people who would pirate so why exactly would showing them that an actual person made it, affect piracy elvels? Do pirates somehow suddenly develop a concious when they ar eintroduced to the person doing it? Nope.
3. Demo....the only thing demos will do is help pirates determine whether or not its actually WORTH pirating. Hell I know the only thing i use a demo for is to determine whether a game is actually worth the money. 9/10 it simply shows its not. Spore for example. Had there been a demo, wouldn't have bought it.
4. They'd have to be pretty big updates. However, unfortunately you failed to mention the part where they simply repirate the newest version and voila same problem again.
5. This is...well its not even taking a moment to look at the *massive* message it'll be projecting. "Sometimes piracy makes people buy our games, we arn't losing much money from it at all!".....Yes...so encouraging the dont pirate games message...
6. Tbh...more sabatours isnt going to stop pirates..it'll just make them craftier. Like what happened with mp3s. It's even easier to get them now than it was at the hieght of their news days. People spammed the p2p lines so they went to static sites in countries where they couldn't be touched. Same thing will happen with games, be on an underground server in eastern zambia soon enough (extra points if you can guess the reference).
7. As for leaked games...if its from inside the company, then most likely the company person will be able to remove the piece of code. If not, the pirateer will be looking for it the second the first person gets caught leaking it. It'll work once then they'll find a way around it, like they did with DRM.
8. Lowering prices won't help much...maybe a fraction will buy instead. But you are missing the point of piracy. People want it for FREE. Why pay even a penny when you can have it for FREE.
9. Didn't we already say basically the same thing earlier...? If not then accepting it wont reduce it, the mentality will still be there "I can get this for free." Anime companies tried that approach. Sure it got dattebayo to stop. BUT only because the cmpanies started giving it away for free with the option of getting it earlier for a fee.
10. Sins of s solar empire = bad example to use since well...title gives it away. It sounds like a terrible game. The soldier art on the main page looks like a cpt scarlett rip-off. The screenshots make the grahics look subpar (The ships dont even resemble metal, more like plastic), and the features...well, can we say Eve Online? Home world 2? Spore made similar Open ended promises. Look how that turned out.
In short there wasnt a single actual valid suggestion of how t reduce piracy whatsoever.
What you should've done was make reference to what a lot of mmos are doing now. Giving the *base* game out for free with all the GOOD stuff available for an extra fee. Voyage Century for example gives you the basic game, but for the good stuff to get great fast, you have to buy points etc. As conquer online demonstrated people will pay THOUSANDS of dollars to make their character the best.
Thats the way to move forward.
EDIT: As an example I mself, without noticing managed to spend over $1000 on Conquer online, and tht was at the time where i refused to pay subscriptions because of the monthly cost. By the time i realised how much i had pent in 6 months, I could've bought 10 years of wow.
1. how exactly is dropping it supposed to reduce piracy...? Just because spore was pirated in protest doesn't mean it'll reduce piracy from normal levels. (i'd give an example of a major game without drm being pirated but i cant actually find one that doesnt have it...)
2. As wow forums have demonstrated so very very well. Public dev interaction leads to one thing only. Abuse thrown at them by peple who think they've done a rubbish job. They arn't friends or even random associates of the people who would pirate so why exactly would showing them that an actual person made it, affect piracy elvels? Do pirates somehow suddenly develop a concious when they ar eintroduced to the person doing it? Nope.
3. Demo....the only thing demos will do is help pirates determine whether or not its actually WORTH pirating. Hell I know the only thing i use a demo for is to determine whether a game is actually worth the money. 9/10 it simply shows its not. Spore for example. Had there been a demo, wouldn't have bought it.
4. They'd have to be pretty big updates. However, unfortunately you failed to mention the part where they simply repirate the newest version and voila same problem again.
5. This is...well its not even taking a moment to look at the *massive* message it'll be projecting. "Sometimes piracy makes people buy our games, we arn't losing much money from it at all!".....Yes...so encouraging the dont pirate games message...
6. Tbh...more sabatours isnt going to stop pirates..it'll just make them craftier. Like what happened with mp3s. It's even easier to get them now than it was at the hieght of their news days. People spammed the p2p lines so they went to static sites in countries where they couldn't be touched. Same thing will happen with games, be on an underground server in eastern zambia soon enough (extra points if you can guess the reference).
7. As for leaked games...if its from inside the company, then most likely the company person will be able to remove the piece of code. If not, the pirateer will be looking for it the second the first person gets caught leaking it. It'll work once then they'll find a way around it, like they did with DRM.
8. Lowering prices won't help much...maybe a fraction will buy instead. But you are missing the point of piracy. People want it for FREE. Why pay even a penny when you can have it for FREE.
9. Didn't we already say basically the same thing earlier...? If not then accepting it wont reduce it, the mentality will still be there "I can get this for free." Anime companies tried that approach. Sure it got dattebayo to stop. BUT only because the cmpanies started giving it away for free with the option of getting it earlier for a fee.
10. Sins of s solar empire = bad example to use since well...title gives it away. It sounds like a terrible game. The soldier art on the main page looks like a cpt scarlett rip-off. The screenshots make the grahics look subpar (The ships dont even resemble metal, more like plastic), and the features...well, can we say Eve Online? Home world 2? Spore made similar Open ended promises. Look how that turned out.
In short there wasnt a single actual valid suggestion of how t reduce piracy whatsoever.
What you should've done was make reference to what a lot of mmos are doing now. Giving the *base* game out for free with all the GOOD stuff available for an extra fee. Voyage Century for example gives you the basic game, but for the good stuff to get great fast, you have to buy points etc. As conquer online demonstrated people will pay THOUSANDS of dollars to make their character the best.
Thats the way to move forward.
EDIT: As an example I mself, without noticing managed to spend over $1000 on Conquer online, and tht was at the time where i refused to pay subscriptions because of the monthly cost. By the time i realised how much i had pent in 6 months, I could've bought 10 years of wow.