15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

[senordesol]

Some very poor decisions here. Primarily on the bully's part. The victim (non-bully) tried to disengage, but the bully wouldn't let him. I've been in that situation, and given that the bully appeared to bring his posse with him, I imagine the victim was surrounded and had no choice but to fight or get his ass kicked.

Adrenaline pumping, frightened out of his mind, the victim finally puts the matter to rest in the only way the bully can understand. I seriously doubt he meant to kill him, I seriously doubt he *meant* to do anything other than get the a-hole to leave him alone.

I've been in fights, and I've sparred. Sparing is different than fighting. In a fight, discipline easily breaks; control is easily lost. All that matters is putting your assailant on the ground and making sure he's not going to get back up to do the same to you.

I can completely understand 11 rapid-fire jabs, hell it might even take a few moments to register in your adrenaline fueled brain when the threat has ended after jab 7 or 8. Fear makes a man (or a boy) do very interesting things, so I couldn't find the boy criminally culpable were I a juror.

Actually; I do question one thing: isn't bringing a blade to school illegal in Florida? That'd be the only thing I'd be willing to convict on.

 

[weker]

I'm glad he fought back against the bully. But stabbing him 11 times? That's just a little too much...

My guess is that the kid was bullied for a long while, so bottled rage and such.
I for one am on the kid's side that's not, if you do something such as punching someone in the back of the head, that's a excessively harmful place to hurt so I feel his retaliation was justified.

Sad the bully died, but hey that's what can happen.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Interesting. I wish I could feel sorry for the bully, but I do not. It's tragic, but sometimes your actions don't lead to the outcome you want. I feel more sympathy for the family than him, although I am also a little angry that they didn't confront their son about his bullying. I am more inclined to believe the witnesses saying the kid was a bully, than the parents and friends, whose judgement on that matter was more than likely clouded.

I can see why the kid felt his life was in danger. Constantly bullied, and then being surrounded by others who would take part in the fight...there's a very good chance he feared for his life. What would have happened if everyone there started to beat him? He would have at least ended up in the hospital, if not dead. As for the stabbing 11 times, I believe that's just reflex, anger, and adrenaline. I doubt he sat there and went, "One, two, three..." It's just like when someone who's never fired a gun at another person while under stress usually ends up emptying the thing.

I am interested to see if the school will go after the kid for carrying the knife. That is breaking a serious law, and can get you expelled. They now know he carried it on school grounds, and unless this school has special rules, he should get in some serious trouble for it. I wonder if the school will pursue it.

 

[ProtonGuy]

About damn time the victim isn't treated like a criminal for defending himself and putting a permanent stop to his aggressor. I really want to high five that judge right now.

 

[ElPatron]

I'm sure once would have been enough.

Many times one stab won't incapacitate a foe. Even on the heart, it might take more than 3 seconds to "stop" someone.

But anyway, the kid was scared. It's like home invasion situations. It's actually better for you if you pulled a trigger until you had no more ammo than if you take a perfect shot.


One means you're in panic and fearing for your life, the other means you're a cold blooded killer.

Not even police officers can remember how many shot they fired when they have to report that they had to kill someone.



The kid was in panic. So he stabbed the other until he was assured of incapacitation.

He should be prosecuted for having a knife with him, whether or not the actual killing was self defence.

Actually, you can carry knifes in Florida.


It can't be a "combat knife" (it has to be a common knife) and it can't be spring or gravity assisted. For that you need a CWFL.


That's right. Carrying a knife is perfectly legal unless they kid had a tanto or a bayonet.

 

[lordmardok]

Having been a victim of bullying myself for over a decade in my high school years I can't in good conscience do anything but applaud this kid. Bullies understand violence and nothing else, whether they're kids in a schoolyard or high-powered executives. In the end this is the only language they understand. It's a shame he died but if he had simply taken the hint and left the kid alone this whole thing could've been avoided. At the end of the day the bully wrote his own death warrant. It's one of those, "Be careful who you pick on, you never know if they're crazier than you" sort of things and it's a lesson everyone who picks on anyone else should take to heart.

 

[BlueMage]

And so they will learn. Push hard enough, and the one you're pushing will push back harder - it won't end well for you.

As TestECull said (and hello to you again, good to see we can agree in this thread) knock the bastards around and they'll find weaker prey. You don't need to be bigger or stronger or faster, just more vicious.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Second, why a knife, couldn't he have just battered him for a bit with a bat or something? It doesn't make sense why he would carry a knife as stab as many times as he did.

Small knife, even with a big knife it takes more than one stab to put someone on the floor. I've punched and been punched enough in my teens (never stabbed, thank God), once the adrenaline gets going and you're 'on' you just don't care.
As for alternative methods, that would need some degree of planning and getting he drop on the other guy. The kid with the knife's defence more or less hinges on the fact that he was cornered and alone when the stabbing took place. He made a concerted effort to escape, it doesn't sound like he planned on stabbing or exacting revenge on anyone so much as he didn't want to get beaten up.

<spoiler=Apparent chain of events>
Kid got attacked, by a group, of older kids, who announced their intention to attack before hand (and had already been picking on him for some time according the court), then followed their intended victim after he tried to avoid being attacked, attacked him once, kid runs for it, group chases kid down, attacks him again, kid is armed and fights back, group evidently continues to attack (twelve knife wounds, that take more than a second or two), attacker suffers knife wound to heart, proves fatal, more fool him.


I've had the shit kicked out of me by a older kids before. Chased down the street and pounded with a two by four, the Police and schools do bugger all, police don't care unless you die, schools do bare minimum lip service and pretend everything is alright.

In the end what stopped it for me was hitting fifteen and 'suddenly' finding myself at six foot four. I got bullied a lot less after I smashed a guy's teeth out against a wall. Every story I know about beating bullies ends sooner or later with 'and then I kicked the shit out of him, he didn't bother me after that'.


That's life, this character wanted to play the big man with his friends and torture some smaller kid. He got the biggest and last surprise of his life as a consequence, maybe his friends will learn a lesson on his behalf.

Think of it this way, if it was a wife killing her violently abusing husband mid-assault no one would even consider jailing her, pure self defence. When a kid kills one (just one) of a group of older, larger kids that have repeatedly chased him down and attacked, it's suddenly murder?
Nope, evidently a Judge out there agrees.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

A boy declares to his classmates that he is going to attack another student, he gives that student all day to prepare, and then he goes to fight him and is killed. What, did you expect him to NOT fight back?

That Nuno kid suffered the consequences of his own hubris. Was Saavedra's reaction excessive? Absolutely. Did Nuno bring it onto himself? Yes, without a doubt.

If you're going to start a fight, be prepared for your opponent to fight back, if you can't do that, then don't start the fight.

 

[SarcasmoPope]

If he wasn't dead, he'd be bullying the kid even worse than before.

 

[Sirron Kcuch]

Okay, it's just like putting your fingers in a plug: Do you deserve to die? Probably not, but damn, you were looking for it.

Should the remaining kid be prosecuted? No, but he definately needs therapy

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

This is good news, kudos to the boy.

 

[Dastardly]

Firstly i believe that the kid had a right to defend himself, every kid does, but was stabbing him 11 times necessary. I'm sure once would have been enough.

Not self defense, as I doubt the guy was still standing and an active threat somewhere halfway.

"Fight or flight" doesn't do math. By the time you're in a panic enough to stab someone, it's safe to say you're not counting or carefully considering the consequences of each blow. I'd be more alarmed if it were a few carefully-placed strikes. That would show cold calculation, rather than blind panic.

Also keep in mind we're talking about a teenager. Until around the age of 25, there's a region of the brain that has yet to fully develop called the "prefrontal cortex." Among other things, it's responsible for impulse control -- the suppression of emotion in order to make a reasoned response. Add to this rage and panic, and you're basically bypassing the reasoning brain straight to the hypothalamus -- fight or flight.

Neither do I subscribe to the silly American logic that you can just kill anyone who gets in your way. Besides, he brought along a knife with the explicit and only motive of committing murder upon that bully. It was pre-meditated.

Unnecessary. America didn't invent knives, stabbing, or self-defense laws. Or bullying, for that matter.

The kid had routinely been facing this kid and a gang. There's no "honor" in facing those odds unarmed, at a severe disadvantage. And, with the impulse control issue mentioned above, it would only be a matter of time before the bullies carried things too far and killed the kid. So, he had the knife for defense. Wrong? Maybe... but the fact that things were allowed to get that far tells me there was a failing somewhere else (like in one or more of the homes).

The kid got off the bus early to avoid the location of the fight. He wanted out of it. The knife was his emergency exit. The only thing that was "premeditated" about this was that he planned ahead in case he got cornered and had no other way out -- and it turns out he was right.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

it wasnt self defence because he, a minor, was armed. 1. that's illegal 2. that means it was pre-meditated and 3. he wasnt being attacked at that time.
yet he gets away with it.

in the words of LeeLee Scaldaferri in this week's Feed Dump, "God bless America!"
[/all the sarcasm]

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Also he was clearly in the right here. The kid who was bullying him had this shit coming.

I can't say the kid did the right thing but he was clearly bullied to the point of breaking. Honestly, this whole ordeal isn't his fault. It's the teacher's and the parent's for failing to notice the bullying and doing something about it. They prosecuted the kid on manslaughter charges but said nothing about the teachers who purposefully ignored his cries for help. What about the parents of the bully who also ignored their son's utterly despicable behaviour and failed to keep him in line? No blame is put on them for what happened. Instead, the state dragged an obviously traumatized 14 year old kid into a court room. At least the judge had some common sense but damn, this whole ordeal is pretty fucked up when you think about it.

 

[Neonit]

it always ends with one side in hospital. to be honest? if one has to be hurt/die, i would prefer the bully to die....
nah, dont talk about "oh, you should talk to your parent/teacher/police" because they dont do sh!t before someone ends in hospital. and then all you get is a story on front of local newspaper.

what would you do? sit there, getting punched till bully gets tired with one hand, then another, and pray to your god his legs are already tired?

tragic, but necessary.

ps could be worse, could be stabbed 23 times.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I assume he gained some wisdom as he was bleeding out on the pavement.

we're talking about a 16yo kid ffs, please seek therapy.

I see. So whenever anyone brings up an opinion that is different from one's own, we should declare them insane, without giving any significant reasoning as to why their idea is inherently wrong?

A 16 year old who beats upon another person in contempt in order to gain a disgusting, twisted feeling of superiority shouldn't be handled any differently than an adult who does so. Such wanton destruction is the very definition of evil and to protect one who does so because they are a child is discrimination based on one's age. If an adult brought a person into an alley and attempted to beat them, and they retaliated with deadly force, the person is justified by doing so out of self defence. If it is teens in the situation it should be no different.

That is how I feel. Call me insane, I don't care.

 

[BlueMage]

it wasnt self defence because he, a minor, was armed. 1. that's illegal 2. that means it was pre-meditated and 3. he wasnt being attacked at that time.
yet he gets away with it.

in the words of LeeLee Scaldaferri in this week's Feed Dump, "God bless America!"
[/all the sarcasm]

It'll be amusing how you react when your own child goes through enough bullying that they're willing to arm themselves.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Neither do I subscribe to the silly American logic that you can just kill anyone who gets in your way.

You really got us there, that's definitely how everyone in America feels. Absolutely brilliant work, really.

I don't think he should get away scott-free, maybe some counseling and community service of some kind?