15-year old Stabs Bully 11 Times at Bus Stop, Gets Away With It

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Carboncrown

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Oct 17, 2009
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BrassButtons said:
Carboncrown said:
Furthermore, I'd actually argue that his life was not in danger, given that
1) This was not the first time he was bullied, what's suddenly gonna provoke murder?
Assault always carries the risk of death. There is no safe way to physically attack someone. It doesn't matter if the bullies were intending to kill him or not, because they could anyway.
There's a reason attempted murder and assault two are different crimes, don't you think?
senordesol said:
Carboncrown said:
1)How likely is that really? How often does bullying escalate to homicide, 'cause here in Finland, I'd say that's pretty close to zero.
2)I'm saying the bullies would be caught. There was multiple witnesses to the planned fight. Surely they mean to kill him.

That last part was sarcasm.
How likely is it? I don't know, what is the 'likely' outcome of four guys circle stomping you on the street? What part of that is reasonable? See, when four people are assaulting you FOR NO GODDAMN REASON, there's no such thing as 'likely' because there is no particular rationale behind their actions other than to do harm.
You're being too emotional, please calm down and think about it.

Just "because there is no particular rationale behind their actions other than to do harm." doesn't mean they're out to kill him. Just because there's a theoretical chance that they'll go overboard and kill him, doesen't mean it's likely to happen. Again how ofted does that happen?
It's standard bullying by 16-year-olds. An awful thing, sure, but hardly leathal.

And as to whether or not they thought they could get away with it, if teens stopped to think about shit like that, they'd not have touched him in the first place, now would they?
What? You really thing just because they're bullies, they're unable to realise that they'll go to prison if they kill someone and get caught (which they would have).

Oh, and they did get away with the bullying, if that's what you meant.
 

Digitaldreamer7

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TrilbyWill said:
it wasnt self defence because he, a minor, was armed. 1. that's illegal 2. that means it was pre-meditated and 3. he wasnt being attacked at that time.
yet he gets away with it.

in the words of LeeLee Scaldaferri in this week's Feed Dump, "God bless America!"
[/all the sarcasm]
Actually, it's not premeditated if he carried the knife on a regular basis BECAUSE he got bullied. He's carrying a weapon to protect himself if needed. You have to PROVE he intended to kill that specific person with that specific weapon for it to be premeditated. I legally carry a 9mm pistol everywhere I go. If I shoot someone who tries to attack me, it's not premeditated it's self defense. The simple act of carrying a weapon to defend yourself if attacked doesn't make that premeditated.


I've been in a similar situation when I was younger. A classmate and his brother had been tormenting me for months on my walk home from school, I told my parents, the teachers etc. The school's response.. "what happens off of school grounds is something we can't control." I had to change my walking route, wait an hour to leave the school, some days I stayed til 6:30pm when my parents got off of work. Well one day they found me alone after school on my way home. I didn't kill anyone but he spent a week in the hospital after him and his brother tried to jump me waking home. One stabbed me with a ball point pen twice. His brother went face first through a glass window causing permanent scarring on his face and the other had a sever concussion and swelling. If the man hadn't seen it and stopped to pull me off of the boy I don't know that I would have stopped hitting him until he was no longer making noise. I was afraid he would get back up and beat me. Pressing charges was mentioned by his parents, the officer in charge of my case turned to the mother and said "fine if you want to press charges i'll have to arrest your son and his brother for assault and battery and assault with a deadly weapon as well." She simply said "no thanks." Two weeks after the kid got out of the hospital he gathered another friend and came after me again. After wrestling one to the ground and slamming his bloody face into the ground til he went sort of limp the others stopped kicking me and punching me. They picked the kid up and left, that was the last time they tried anything.


Good job to the kid. Now it's up to the parents to help him understand that what he did was only called for in his extreme situation. I'd also put in for a transfer to a different school. Thankful for the judge that dismissed the case. He just made a lot of victims feel empowered.
 

Ympulse

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Feb 15, 2011
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GrandmaFunk said:
so a broken nose is worth several lives?
When it's my nose, and I did nothing to deserve being attacked? Yes, it's worth every dead body.

Meet force with force and the instigators will have to decide whether it's worth their lives to mess with someone for no reason.

Edit for clarification:

On an extremely macro scale, why do you think wars (in the traditional sense) have stopped nearly entirely between nuclear-armed countries? It's not worth dying to prove you've got the biggest ego in the yard.
 

krazykidd

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GrandmaFunk said:
'Stand Your Ground/No Duty To Retreat' legislature is deeply deeply flawed at it's core.

if your options are 'running away' or 'stab the guy a dozen times'..the second choice is ALWAYS wrong.

this is a case of manslaughter, not self defense.
He tried to run away . He tried to avoid confrontation . The bully punched him , tried to beat him , that is MORE than justified . As for carrying a knife , it is not illegal to carry a knife for self defense , he had no intention of using it if he didn't need to . He didn't make a preemptive strike , he tried to avoid it . It was the ONLY way . Do you really think if he could hold his own against the bully he would have carried a knife ? Or wven have been bullied to begin with? I think this ruling is fair . And this comes from a guy who has never been bullied . I hope bullies all over the world sees this and stops out of fear of being stabbed to death . Score one of the little guy !
 

senordesol

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Carboncrown said:
BrassButtons said:
Carboncrown said:
Furthermore, I'd actually argue that his life was not in danger, given that
1) This was not the first time he was bullied, what's suddenly gonna provoke murder?
Assault always carries the risk of death. There is no safe way to physically attack someone. It doesn't matter if the bullies were intending to kill him or not, because they could anyway.
There's a reason attempted murder and assault two are different crimes, don't you think?
senordesol said:
Carboncrown said:
1)How likely is that really? How often does bullying escalate to homicide, 'cause here in Finland, I'd say that's pretty close to zero.
2)I'm saying the bullies would be caught. There was multiple witnesses to the planned fight. Surely they mean to kill him.

That last part was sarcasm.
How likely is it? I don't know, what is the 'likely' outcome of four guys circle stomping you on the street? What part of that is reasonable? See, when four people are assaulting you FOR NO GODDAMN REASON, there's no such thing as 'likely' because there is no particular rationale behind their actions other than to do harm.
You're being too emotional, please calm down and think about it.

Just "because there is no particular rationale behind their actions other than to do harm." doesn't mean they're out to kill him. Just because there's a theoretical chance that they'll go overboard and kill him, doesen't mean it's likely to happen. Again how ofted does that happen?
It's standard bullying by 16-year-olds. An awful thing, sure, but hardly leathal.

And as to whether or not they thought they could get away with it, if teens stopped to think about shit like that, they'd not have touched him in the first place, now would they?
What? You really thing just because they're bullies, they're unable to realise that they'll go to prison if they kill someone and get caught (which they would have).

Oh, and they did get away with the bullying, if that's what you meant.
It doesn't matter how 'likely' it is, the likelihood would be ZERO (to both parties) if they did not attack. If there is even a *chance* he could've been killed due to the assault, then that is reason enough. You have NO legal or moral obligation to gamble with your LIFE. His assailants don't even have to *mean* to kill him, a concussion can kill. A broken rib puncturing a lung can kill, a kick to the head that snaps his neck can kill; but ignoring all of that, NO ONE has the right to kick the crap out of you no matter how 'likely' or 'unlikely' it is to result in your death because ALL IT TAKES is for it to happen JUST ONCE.
 

Sangreal Gothcraft

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Best way to deal with a bully...is by Fighting back, Throw a chair that is what i did and that is what it took for a bully to back off and get the message..."but let adults and teachers handle it herp derp derpy derp" Went to adults many of times all they did was have a talk...and the bullying went from bad to worse... Honestly....Best way is too Just throw a chair...Or kick him square in the nuts... And hope they don't produce anymore genetic defects..
 

Slaanesh

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Aug 1, 2011
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The kid obviously needs counseling. Could do him some good.

Maybe the bully would've been alive today if he didn't antagonize and assault another person for a long period of time. Or had friends who had enough balls to step in and STOP THE KID FROM STABBING YOU.
 

Philip Petrunak

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Apr 3, 2010
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Who stabs a guy 12 times in "self defense"? Oh, right I remember now, no one!

The first stab was self-defense, the other 11 were murder. Hands down, no question. This isn't fucking Spartacus; One stab wound to the chest can be fatal, and will take down anyone. This was murder.
 

Vigilantis

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TestECull said:
ITT: People siding with assholes.


Three things, guys. One: It doesn't take long to stab eleven times, especially under stress. It probably lasted no more than ten or fifteen seconds, at the most. Try it for yourself, hold your hand as if you had a knife in it and see how quick you can 'stab' your pillow eleven times. Then factor in how much faster people move when they perceive their lives in danger, and there ya go. The kid likely stopped when he saw the bully wasn't attacking him anymore. Two: The court of law has ruled it a self defense. That's the end of it. Three: Get off your high horses, shit like this happens all around the world. The only reason half of you are moaning about it is because of the country it happened in.
^ Everything this guy said, shit sucks but it has happened and its now over. I can't help but ask if the rest of the world has adult supervision 24/7 by some of the comments coming from this page, seriously how is a parent supposed to be with their kid all the time, especially when they are 15+?

People that act like their own countries laws aren't stupid or work properly 100% of the time are hilarious.
 

Dastardly

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Apr 19, 2010
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Blablahb said:
Ussually the more methodical violence gets, the lesser the overall damage. How do you think it comes that security guards, doormen and policemen who deal with violence on a professional basis all get trained in fighting techniques? Because it allows them to minimise the violence.
Do you know any children, or are you at least aware of them? They look a little like tiny adults, but they function very, very differently. Generally, they don't have years of experience and training in hand-to-hand combat.

If some idiot pulls a knife at work at monday, I could for instance choose to deliver a crippling kick on his liver that would incapitate him for minutes, totally safe.
You could try, I suppose. Even cursory experience in full-contact fight situations, or training from any reputable, experienced fighter would tell you that if the other person has a knife, you're getting cut if you close distance. You kick, he reflexively grabs the leg, swipes with the knife, and you begin bleeding.

Compare that to the 'American alternative' of me using a weapon to commit murder on that person, or go at him flailing my arms, hoping I'd hit something before he stabs me.

I'm going for the methodical unarmed approach in this case.
And again you're being intentionally antagonistic regarding your blatant bias against Americans. It would be better if you confined your comments to the issue, rather than painting an entire country with such broad strokes.

I've already had someone pull a knife in a fight between clients, and I talked him out of it and into putting it away without even raising a fist. If it's frustration-agression, let them wave their weapons as much as they want. If you don't kick them even further out of their tree, nothing will go wrong.
It's fortunate that you ran into someone who wasn't truly determined to use the weapon. I'd count your blessings, rather than praising your perceived genius. Again. Teenagers. We're not dealing with people that have training or experience. We're dealing with a gang of bullies that beat up on an isolated target. Try reasoning with kids like that sometime, particularly in a situation in which they have the advantage.

So then what? Murder someone for the heck of it, and take decades of his life away from him and cause grief to his family? That's hardly a solution either.
Strawman. This wasn't "murder" and it wasn't "for the heck of it." The kid demonstrated that he was trying to avoid the fight. He walked away. They pursued.

Kids at that age don't even have the power to actually injure eachother with bare hands. And if they do, that's what you have a police force for: to ensure the perpetrator wishes they hadn't by the time they hear their sentence.
1. You are very gravely mistaken. Kids at that age can, with bare hands, cause serious bodily injury to each other. I've witnessed it myself, working with middle schoolers and high schoolers every day for years.

2. Let's also consider that if a group is ganging up on you, and things begin escalating, the longer it goes the worse your chances. One of them finally decides to grab a weapon... the another... and then you're dead. Even a minimal amount of actual experience in this area would have taught you how quickly things like this can get out of hand when dealing with teens.

3. The cops? Here's how that call goes: "Hey, cops: A bunch of kids just beat me within an inch of my life. I'll try to give you the address, but with my teeth missing it might not be very clear."


Yes, carrying a weapon with the sole intent of committing murder upon someone is always wrong.

Self-defense with weapons is a myth anyway, all it does is increase the amount of violence.
And there goes any credibility you may have had. Any reputable self-defense instructor will tell you that RULE ONE is "try to run away" (This kid did) and RULE TWO is Grab something to use to fend them off. There's no honor in going hand-to-hand, because they're not trying to play fair with you. This isn't some little point-bout in which the winner gets a nifty belt to go with his gi.

And the rest of your post is just another bias-fueled rant about what you think you know about America. Simply because you've never been in a situation doesn't mean that situation can't exist. It's easy to sit back, after the fact, forgetting that these are children, and talk about whatever class or training you think you've had that would have allowed you to Superman your way through this. Reality disagrees with you, and reality has provided countless pieces of evidence against your claims.
 

tofulove

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i notice alot of people thinking 11 times was to much, to them i say, how many times have you bin forced into a corner and had to stab some one, i imagine at that point it was purely animal instincts of fight or fly, and he had no options to fly so he fought as hard as he could, i never stabbed any one before, but i bin forced to defend my self and won, and i punch the guy many more times than it was necessary to win by the time i calmed down.
 

jimbob123432

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Apr 8, 2011
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As a kid, I was bullied quite harshly, and I can see where this kid was coming from, but my problem lies with the reasoning behind his acquittal. The "Stand Your Ground" law, from what I've read, is to be read as "meet force with equal force" in order to protect yourself. If there was a history of bullying and several physical pain inflicted (which wasn't mentioned at all in the article, unless I missed it) then I would have to say that the bullied kid WAS in the right on this, although he went too far.
As I said, I was bullied as a kid, until I fought back once and the bullying pretty much stopped. I didn't stab my bully, but I did brake with skateboard over his face and he did end up in the hospital. For people who haven't been bullied, I don't think you can fully understand. Eventually, the anger just rises to a point of no return. I'm honestly glad this kid only killed one person as opposed to more in a school shooting/bombing. But, he still should get some counselling and I'd recommend that his family relocate. The dead kid's friends are going to be looking for revenge.
 

ThatLankyBastard

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Hate to say it but good! I mean, sure, there were lots of other ways he could have done it a little better (that being said, I feel nothing for the bully or his family), but at least things got done!

Besides, if he was that mentally disturbed then whos to say it wouldn't have turned into an even worse situation...
 

jimbob123432

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Dastardly said:
Blablahb said:
Self-defense with weapons is a myth anyway, all it does is increase the amount of violence.
And there goes any credibility you may have had. Any reputable self-defense instructor will tell you that RULE ONE is "try to run away" (This kid did) and RULE TWO is Grab something to use to fend them off. There's no honor in going hand-to-hand, because they're not trying to play fair with you. This isn't some little point-bout in which the winner gets a nifty belt to go with his gi.
Wow, the first quote hurts. As a black belt, self-defense DOES exist, and it can severely reduce the amount of violence in a situation, if you do it right . Grabbing a weapon, unless you've just "liberated" it from your opponent, just escalates the level of violence, sometimes to a lethal level. If a kid is being bullied, the best thing for that kid is martial arts training. It boosts self-confidence and if they get in a fight, they can put the other guy down without doing undue damage and no one will want to mess with them again.
 

BrassButtons

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Nov 17, 2009
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Carboncrown said:
BrassButtons said:
Carboncrown said:
Furthermore, I'd actually argue that his life was not in danger, given that
1) This was not the first time he was bullied, what's suddenly gonna provoke murder?
Assault always carries the risk of death. There is no safe way to physically attack someone. It doesn't matter if the bullies were intending to kill him or not, because they could anyway.
There's a reason attempted murder and assault two are different crimes, don't you think?
Yes, but the reason is not because assault carries no risk of death. Assault kills. Even if the assaulter didn't intend for it to happen.