4 reasons why I thought Metal Gear Solid 4's story sucked...

[Jumplion]

3) Protip: Fate and destiny are both defined as "the things that will happen to and through a person". Embracing one's destiny is the exact same thing as letting fate happen. Remember: "Letting" fate happen doesn't mean sitting around doing nothing. That's often going against it. Furthermore, that is one line I noted. There are tons of others. The fact is that this story has an okay plot, but is delivered badly. The writing is bad and the dialogue is "plot dump". Plot dump is bad writing, and that's not an opinion, that's a fact of writing technique. When I say, "The delivery is bad," I don't mean that telling it as Snake is bad, I mean that giving us a Powerpoint presentation about SOP or the Patriots every time you introduce another character is a bad means to communicate the plot to the player.

- J

I personally liked how the story was told as I've said before. I hate stories that expect me to remember everything throuout the whole series like Kingdom Hearts (Sora was a hearless? What are you talking about? *goes to wikipedia* oh yeah, now I remember) and since MGS reveals plots in separate sections along with some backtracking, it helps me remember the whole entire plot much easier.

I could probably give a short summary right now, but I'm sure I would forget a small thing here and there anyway.

And video games are not books or movies, they can't tell stories the same way as they can. Because video games are a very interactive media other rules apply to the stories of those. If the MGS series was a book series then it would probably be considered bad writing, but Kojima found the way he wants to express his talents and that way is through the interactive media called video games. You can't compare Books to Video Games, or atleast I don't think you can.

 

[Jumplion]

Nicely said and done j-e-f-f-e-r-s. I've got nothing to comment of that. I probably got confused and assumed that when tiredinnuendo said "plot dump" that it meant that the MGS storyline was horrid. So, That would be opinion, but how the story is told is fact?

It doesn't change the fact, though, that I thought MGS4 was phenomenal, the best game I've ever played.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

Nicely said and done j-e-f-f-e-r-s. I've got nothing to comment of that. I probably got confused and assumed that when tiredinnuendo said "plot dump" that it meant that the MGS storyline was horrid. So, That would be opinion, but how the story is told is fact?

It doesn't change the fact, though, that I thought MGS4 was phenomenal, the best game I've ever played.

No, "Plot Dump" refers to a writing technique where the writers need to get across some backstory or some other key point of note, but can't figure out a way to either show the viewer or have the characters discuss it. Thus, they'll have one character go on a really long, uninterrupted monologue to detail the information that they need imparted.

This isn't the general laying out battlefield plans or the informant spilling his guts, those are valid places for exposition. This is where a character who should have no interest or inclination to relay some information just goes whole hog, turns towards the camera, and starts to explain to the viewers, in small words, what's going on. It's the "technical manual" school of writing. The Boardroom Presentation of drama, which is the worst way to inform your viewers.

And (and this is a point I made elsewhere) there was NO EXCUSE for it here, because they also put out the MGS database at the same time as MGS4. Even if you don't possess the talent to have your characters relay the plot in a way the feels natural to the player, how hard would it have been to put the "dumps" in the database, and make the cinemas more cinematic?

- J

 

[Melaisis]

Personally, I rather liked it.

3'd (Rs) [http://www.thethreers.co.uk] with permission.

Now for my (very brief) two cents:

I did like the MGS series. Seriously. I liked the character design and the plot devices used to move it forward. The last game does something a lot of other franchises fail to do well: Ultimately tie the ends in a story whilst effectively involving all the characters to that point. It is for this that the collective saga should be praised. How the characters and setting reacts to that 'final confrontation', however, is somewhat open to controversy.

 

[Jumplion]

I respect your opinion tiredinnuendo, but apparantly "plot dump" is Kojima's style of writing. And I'd hate to be "that guy" but the man's japanese and their style of writing can be much different then ours (could be wrong though).

And I never once felt that the story was "dumped" onto me because I was always interested to know more. I think "plot dump" is a bad form of writing unless you implement it properly and in Kojima's case, I personaly think he writes the story well.

Every time there was a so called "plot dump" I hung on to every word the character was speaking because the whole entire story was so engrossing for me that I wanted to know more no matter how I learned it.

Personally, I found the storyline in GTA4 VERY dull as it didn't pace itself fast enough (ironic isn't it, both from comparison of MGS and that it's an open-world game). One minute Niko would be all happy and joking around and waiting to find out who to kill next, the next minute he's a pussy and yells at his cousin for being an idiot at attracting unnecisary attention. Non of the missions really progressed the story, and only one or two gave a slight mention of what Niko was looking for which with all the other missions he did makes him look like he's forgoten the point of him coming to the US.

There were times where it would be appropriate for ra "plot dump" as I barely knew anything about Niko. All I knew was he fought in a war and he's looking for someone who apparantly did something to him during said war. I didn't feel connected. With Snake, however, because of all the "plot dumps" I know so much about him and I wanted to know more. He was a project of Le Enfants Terribles, okay, who created that orginization? He had brothers, who are they what importancer do they have with the story. Metal Gear, what's so important about it and why do they need to destroy it? All of those "plot dumps" gave off information that I wanted and raised even more questions I wanted answered unlike with GTA where absolutely nothing is revealed and if it is revealed it's shown either too late or doesn't show enough information for me to get interested.

Okay, so I've got to stop saying "plot dump" or I'm going to get sick (HAHA poop joke)

 

[Johnn Johnston]

Though, I guess this is just my thinking, as me not playing the previous games makes my opinion/statement/whatever almost useless. But yeah, just wanted to put that in.

Understand the ending of MGS2, and then, my son, may you say that the plot is simple and not confusing.

Spoiler

Arsenal comes to a halt in downtown New York, launching Raiden and Solidus onto the roof of Federal Hall.[55] Solidus reveals to Raiden his reasons for trying to steal Arsenal: a nuclear electro-magnetic pulse would take down Manhattan's digital infrastructure and allow Solidus to lead it as a republic against the Patriots, a nation of "Sons of Liberty".[56] Likewise the Patriots, via another AI, contact Raiden to reveal the truth of their actions, the AIs being programmed to becoming "digital censors", removing trite and needless information from the electronic world in what they call "Selection for Societal Sanity", or "S3 Plan". The information fed to Ocelot was another part of this plan.[57] However, with such a control over the flow of digital information, they could as easily be manipulating perceived history for the Patriot's needs. Believing the only option available is to track down the Patriots using the information in Raiden's neural implants, Solidus offers his son one final duel.[58]

Raiden defeats Solidus, and as crowds descend upon the wreckage of Arsenal Gear, Snake and Raiden meet one last time, where his mentor informs him that only he can choose what to believe in, and that he must pass on what he believes to be true.[59] Having planted a tracking device on Liquid-Ocelot's Metal Gear, he and Otacon plan to follow him, and to hunt down the Patriots, whose details were hidden in the GW computer virus disc.[60] As Snake disappears into the crowd, Raiden is finally reunited with Rose, on April 30, 2009?the 220th anniversary of George Washington's inauguration as President of the United States, and the anniversary of Rose and Raiden's first meeting.[61]

In a brief epilogue, Otacon and Snake discuss the decoding of the virus disc, which contains the personal data on all twelve members of the Wisemen's Committee (the Patriots' high council). It is revealed on this disc that one of the members of the committee was a major sponsor of Philanthropy. Another shocking revelation found on the disc indicates that not only are all twelve members of the Wisemen's Committee dead, but have been dead for approximately 100 years.[62]

You could probably tell the ending of the story better than that, so please do. I'm DIEING To know what exactly happens :3

Well, that summary misses out the part where:

Spoiler: MGS2 Spoilers

It is revealed that Raiden's entire mission was designed to replicate Solid Snake's mission, and was all just a complex "exam", so to speak. That's the version with a lot of the information missing, because all the stuff I missed out I just didn't understand.

 

[Wulf Legend]

Good job. I liked it even though I've never played any MGS games nor have any intentions to.

I bet the same people that are pissed at you for criticizing MGS4 are the same ones that bash Halo 3.

 

[Alphavillain]

"4. Like a Hollywood block buster, in the worst way". Games should be about gameplay, not cutscenes. Games often think they are films. They aren't.
MGS4 is possibly the worst offender in this way I've ever encountered. Kojima thinks he's a film director, but deep down he knows that much of what he wants to creates would never make it into even an average Hollywood film...which is why he keeps on making games.
And I agree, eher did those zombie soldiers in the chase sequence come from?
Good review, BTW!

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

"4. Like a Hollywood block buster, in the worst way". Games should be about gameplay, not cutscenes. Games often think they are films. They aren't.
MGS4 is possibly the worst offender in this way I've ever encountered. Kojima thinks he's a film director, but deep down he knows that much of what he wants to creates would never make it into even an average Hollywood film...which is why he keeps on making games.
And I agree, eher did those zombie soldiers in the chase sequence come from?
Good review, BTW!

From what I cant tell liquid broke there brains or something.

 

[MaybeTroll]

Last point needs a picture of Hal crying.

 

[MaybeTroll]

Thats pretty much glossing over the exact point of it - to see if Raiden would blindly follow orders if the information he was given was edited, even if it showed signs of this. The whole thing was to test if he would blinfly obey, or if the Patriots had to rethink their methods.

And Raiden, being nothing if not a *****, follows along blissfully unaware that he's being manipulated (even if it's terribly obvious to the player)

 

[shatnershaman]

I liked point 4 considering I have watched my cousin beat all the MGS's while I watched (We actually had popcorn during 3).

EDIT: This is going to be argued until the cows come home and fly while in a hell that has frozen over.

 

[Sackwak]

Very Amusing. Good Work

 

[BladesofReason]

"4. Like a Hollywood block buster, in the worst way". Games should be about gameplay, not cutscenes. Games often think they are films. They aren't.

In my opinion games should be about having fun and I had more fun with MGS4 then I had with any other game for any of the other consoles this generation. That's just me though.

As for the review by Decoy, I personally loved MGS4 but I found this review very very funny, even if I would have some things to say about your points I can't tell you how to think and you expressed yourself very well and in a very funny manner. I might get stoned to death for saying so but I thought your words on this game were even funnier then Yahtzee's review. Kudos to you!

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

4) I thought I was clear enough, but as you wish, I'll detail my point. Metal Gear was revolutionary. It was one of the first games where killing people was a bad idea. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake taxed the NES to its limits, and had the best story ever in a video game up to that point. Metal Gear Solid gave us our first glimpse of a real interactive movie. We're not going to talk about MGS2. MGS3 reeled in the stupid from MGS2, but gave us the camo system and had it actively impact your stealth. MGS4.... is a shooter where you can crawl and climb and the enemies are less perceptive than other shooters. There is camo, but it's done for you. There is stealth, but the tranq gun, the Mark 2, and the ability to buy more ammo any time you want make the whole game too easy. The only arguably new thing was the psyche meter, and I found that you could almost entirely ignore that if you were in any way passable at playing the game.

- J

I fell the gameplay in itself was innovative in a lot of the other elements. The Octocamo was more difficult than the Comflague thing, because the colour scheme was a lot more contrasting than in MGS3 - while in MGS3 you were given the outfits that could keep you at 90% camo from the outset, or in easily found places, the differently contrasting streets and terrains made it neccesary to map out the right path, and stay out of areas where the most you could get to was 45%. There was an extra element of realism in the pat-downs, in that the soldiers would try to call for help - or, in the case of the FROGS, just punch you then shoot you -, the terrain warfare element meant you had to try and influence warfare in your own role, rather than try to take on the soldiers single handedly, there were enemies who figured out that they could use stealth too (it was in the second half of South America - they actually fucked with your radar, I thought it was brilliant. And lets not forget Laughing Octopus - a true highlight of the game for me), there were false trails and leads leading to enemy ambush, enemy snipers who weren't bosses....

I will admit that allowing players to buy ammo is a bit out of it, but realistically, were you ever starved for ammo before?

And what is everyones problem with MGS2? Having never played the first (I can't find a copy anywhere) maybe I'm missing something, but I thought it was great.

And as I've shown for that line, although grammatically, it may seem odd, analysis shows the meaning behind it.

Big Boss extreme does not let you buy tranq ammo or emotion ammo.