7 year old girl shot dead while selling some lemonade
- Thread starter idarkphoenixi
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Aww, too soon?Witty Name Here said:
Some people don't let themselves get bent out of shape over all the terrible things that happen in the world, because they know the world is a terrible place sometimes. That doesn't mean they're not aware of how awful it is for the family.
Take your self-righteousness elsewhere, it's not welcome here.
I've noticed this thread has turned into a gun control debate over the course of some four pages of posts. Uncanny.
I cannot claim to be an expert in legislation or firearms, let alone firearms legislation. I can, however, point out that an awful lot of people have been suggesting stricter firearms laws as a way of remedying situations like this.
I like your spunk, fellas, but as a deterrent, laws mean very, very little. A few here have pointed out (correctly, I feel) that making firearms harder to legally obtain will not stop gun crime, because criminals will just go about obtaining their firearms illegally. If I'm the sort of person who seriously believes that whatever my problems are, they can be solved by shooting someone in the face, I'm probably also the sort of person who will not be taking any sort of law into consideration at any point in time.
Laws are NOT deterrents. Making something is illegal will only open the door to more strict punishments for offenders. Chances are slim that punishments are going to act as deterrents either, because there isn't a criminal in any prison cell out there who figured they were going to get caught. The United States is one of very few countries that exercises capital punishment, if not the only country that exercises it. Think about it: if people can, and ARE, executed for committing crimes, then why are crimes still committed? Because laws, penalties, and legal action in general cannot prevent crimes.
I cannot claim to be an expert in legislation or firearms, let alone firearms legislation. I can, however, point out that an awful lot of people have been suggesting stricter firearms laws as a way of remedying situations like this.
I like your spunk, fellas, but as a deterrent, laws mean very, very little. A few here have pointed out (correctly, I feel) that making firearms harder to legally obtain will not stop gun crime, because criminals will just go about obtaining their firearms illegally. If I'm the sort of person who seriously believes that whatever my problems are, they can be solved by shooting someone in the face, I'm probably also the sort of person who will not be taking any sort of law into consideration at any point in time.
Laws are NOT deterrents. Making something is illegal will only open the door to more strict punishments for offenders. Chances are slim that punishments are going to act as deterrents either, because there isn't a criminal in any prison cell out there who figured they were going to get caught. The United States is one of very few countries that exercises capital punishment, if not the only country that exercises it. Think about it: if people can, and ARE, executed for committing crimes, then why are crimes still committed? Because laws, penalties, and legal action in general cannot prevent crimes.
To all those saying that Gun control would have stopped this.
In the UK ovr the last couple of years there ahve been multiple cases of innocent people being killed in the crossfire of gun fights with illegal weapon.
It should be mentioed that contry to popular internet beleif firearm licenses are reasonably easy to get hold of for hunting rifles, target rifles and shotguns. Shotgun licenses have NO lower age limit, and children have been granted them in recent years.
If you can prove you have good reason for one (hunting, pest control, target shooting and pre-20th century hiostorical re-enactment are the main ones), the weapon is suited to the task, and can prove that you have a suitible place to store it (a gunsafe in otherwords)and no medical, mental or criminal bars you will likely be granted one.
It is still easier to get an illegal one if you are a gang member or know some. I know shops that display shotguns in the window.
I will also add that a number of shootings in this contry the killer has had legal firearms but used an illegal one in the incident.
In the UK ovr the last couple of years there ahve been multiple cases of innocent people being killed in the crossfire of gun fights with illegal weapon.
It should be mentioed that contry to popular internet beleif firearm licenses are reasonably easy to get hold of for hunting rifles, target rifles and shotguns. Shotgun licenses have NO lower age limit, and children have been granted them in recent years.
If you can prove you have good reason for one (hunting, pest control, target shooting and pre-20th century hiostorical re-enactment are the main ones), the weapon is suited to the task, and can prove that you have a suitible place to store it (a gunsafe in otherwords)and no medical, mental or criminal bars you will likely be granted one.
It is still easier to get an illegal one if you are a gang member or know some. I know shops that display shotguns in the window.
I will also add that a number of shootings in this contry the killer has had legal firearms but used an illegal one in the incident.
lol, what?SecondPrize said:
riiight ..... cause the gang bangers in this country buy they're weapons though only legal channels, and not the countless underground illegal ones, which, I'll kindly remind you has military hardware as well
but you keep right on acting like gun control laws stop this kind thing, cause no one dies from guns in country where the populous isn't allowed to own a gun
....I'm actually speechless for once.. what the hell is wrong with this country. I also love the fact it took a week later for anybody to give this national attention. I don't remember seeing this on yahoo or MSN news.
Well, I'm locked in enough gun debates over at R&P so I'm not extending that to here, I'm only going to say two things, one of which I am surely going to hell for.
One, I love the attitude "The world sucks, but why should I care until something happens to me?" It's so amusingly weird. Not that I particularly care, mind, but my reactions to stuff like that are more like "Well that sucks" than "Deal with it." I mean, you can be impersonal without coming across as a dickhead ^^
Two, and this is the one I'm going to hell for...it's not the one with your name on it you need to worry about, it's the one addressed "To whom it may concern". Murphy and his corollaries made me do it!
One, I love the attitude "The world sucks, but why should I care until something happens to me?" It's so amusingly weird. Not that I particularly care, mind, but my reactions to stuff like that are more like "Well that sucks" than "Deal with it." I mean, you can be impersonal without coming across as a dickhead ^^
Two, and this is the one I'm going to hell for...it's not the one with your name on it you need to worry about, it's the one addressed "To whom it may concern". Murphy and his corollaries made me do it!
Things just as bad, and things much worse happen every single day.idarkphoenixi said:
Don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to make this seem less horrible or to say that we shouldn't feel appalled and sad, because we SHOULD, but to say that this case is more terrible or tragic just because this story got publicity isn't right.
Let's not even get in to the horrors that are a reality throughout parts of africa and the middle east, or just how bad things can get in third world countries. Or the fact that there are all sorts of little wars and revolutions going on at the moment, all with their own atrocities and horrors.
This shooting was a terrible thing, but things just as terrible and some even more so are EVERYWHERE. We just become so desensitized that we stop paying attention.
it seems we only really notice the horrible things when they make the press and well....for every story like this that gets 'relatively' high publicity, there are a dozen that don't, and another dozen that are never really reported on.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xlsClearing the Eye said:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/hosb0212?view=Binary
Yes, yes it does make a difference. And I'm quite content to live in a place with a quarter of the homicides/capita than the USA does.
Given the general American view of firearms, in order to change the culture, you'll need to start somewhat limiting the availability of guns.
I'll be the one to light up a flame then, if this girl was white I wonder how much of man-hunt with county and state police officers and national press this would be getting. For crying out loud a child was shot to death for selling lemonade, I'm not really hounding on you this just pisses me off so much. Also it doesn't matter if guns where banned or not, I've seen videos where a guy was stabbed in the neck with a pair of scissors and died, if some one wants to kill some one else they will come up with ways to do it.Verzin said:
We'd need to change our industries first, shrink the military-industrial complex hugely... one of the reasons guns are so common here is simply because we make so many of 'em (just hearsay, but I think the number is around 40% of what is made worldwide. With a population well under 5%).Da Orky Man said:
Changing our laws regarding guns won't really change their availability at this point, not at the rate of manufacture we've got here.
Greets!
This is an awful story, I would say that people should stop shooting eachother as to avoid hitting innocent bystanders, but who can ever stop big boys and their big toys? Assuming that the tradegy was caused by males of course.
At least in the UK, I don't have to worry about dodging bullets when I want to get a burger. If I am to die to street crime, it will be in the face of a knife, or baseball bat, or a spaceship.
Concerning the whole american gun law thingy, all out banning of weaponry would cause lots of unrest over there and you really do not want unrest in america, especially when so many guns are already in circulation. It would be fun for the rest of the world to watch the americans gun eachother down though, of course.
Not that it doesn't happen already. Does it? Meh, I don't really care.
This is an awful story, I would say that people should stop shooting eachother as to avoid hitting innocent bystanders, but who can ever stop big boys and their big toys? Assuming that the tradegy was caused by males of course.
At least in the UK, I don't have to worry about dodging bullets when I want to get a burger. If I am to die to street crime, it will be in the face of a knife, or baseball bat, or a spaceship.
Concerning the whole american gun law thingy, all out banning of weaponry would cause lots of unrest over there and you really do not want unrest in america, especially when so many guns are already in circulation. It would be fun for the rest of the world to watch the americans gun eachother down though, of course.
Not that it doesn't happen already. Does it? Meh, I don't really care.
And so what if they do? Does that mean we should continue like we are because we can't eradicate gun violence completely? Is that really your argument?Lunar Templar said: