A few thoughts about January 6, 2021

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Casual Shinji

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Gee willikers, somebody's reasonability just slipped hard and fell through the shower drain, didn't it?

If only this scary, all-powerful, magical, Leftist fairyland that conservatives believe exist actually did, I'd be on the next tornado over there.
 

gorfias

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damn, I wish

no seriously, this is utterly ludicrous
I guess if you don't consider Democrats the left, you have a point. But do a search on things such as who teachers politically support, and it is the Democratic party.
 

gorfias

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No, we have literally no idea what's true. Bolton says he didn't hear Trump say it in a particular situation, but quite explicitly leaves open the possibility that he did say it at some other point.

And I did get my reports mixed up. Trump is reputed to said to John Kelly that he didn't understand why people served in war because he didn't understand why it was in their benefit to. And then there's calling John McCain a loser for being captured (thus implicitly all other POWs). And apparently his classmates back from his days in academy said he regularly disrespected the US military back then. And, you know, other stuff.

There is a lot of smoke. I think it's a bit unsafe to just dismiss there being a fire.



So you'd argue that every time a US soldier has raped a civilian, the president at the time (as commander in chief of the armed forces) is personally liable?



I do not see what is worse about describing an immigrant detention centre as a "concentration camp" than rousing a bunch of protestors with fighting talk and then directing them to march on the target of their ire.

I don't doubt it is "protected speech". But there's a big difference between whether you can say something and whether you should: "protected" does not mean "appropriate" or "responsible". Severe irresponsibility is a very disturbing trait for a president to have.
Every time a US soldier has raped a civilian, those in his command are responsible to respond accordingly (prison, court martial). What happens if they shrug and say, "that's fine"?

And any location with a concentration of people could be referred to as a "concentration camp" which would be non-judgemental. Kinda of like calling a teacher a child molester because they bother children. Bad use of the term. But AOC was actually likening it to a Nazi death camp. Suggesting to the suggestible that these were dens of violence and injustice. It is no wonder that some took that to be a call to action/violence.
 

Silvanus

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I guess if you don't consider Democrats the left, you have a point. But do a search on things such as who teachers politically support, and it is the Democratic party.
And this translates to you into mass indoctrination and censorship?

Teachers probably support the Democrats because the Republicans have a hate-boner for properly funding schools.
 

gorfias

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And this translates to you into mass indoctrination and censorship?

Teachers probably support the Democrats because the Republicans have a hate-boner for properly funding schools.
It is a problem. Example: the recent critical race theory or whatever term you want to call lying to children about US history and making white people out to be the biggest problem in society.

And are the schools underfunded? "$13,187 per pupil during the 2019 fiscal year " https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html

That's a ton of money for a classroom with 30 kids (about the average class size when I was a kid). About $400K per room. And the teacher isn't getting half that money.
 

Casual Shinji

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It is a problem. Example: the recent critical race theory or whatever term you want to call lying to children about US history and making white people out to be the biggest problem in society.
Refering to it as "critical race theory or whatever" undoubtedly shows you know what you're talking about.

Also, how convenient conservatives now have a nice blanket for anything that might put America's history in a bad light regarding the treatement of non-whites. "Just more critical race theory being used to lie to our children!" It goes along well with their 'cancel culture' blankie.
 

BrawlMan

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is a problem. Example: the recent critical race theory or whatever term you want to call lying to children about US history and making white people out to be the biggest problem in society.

And are the schools underfunded? "$13,187 per pupil during the 2019 fiscal year " https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/public-school-spending-per-pupil.html

That's a ton of money for a classroom with 30 kids (about the average class size when I was a kid). About $400K per room. And the teacher isn't getting half that money.


And there you go again buying anything the Republican party says as fact and Truth. They're rarely honest or Honor Bound about anything. That ship sailed, crashed, and burned years ago. All they care about is false honor, looking good, and spreading misinformation. Constantly accusing others of being hypocrites yet act as if they're innocent, victims, or never did anything wrong. Nothing more than liars and schemers out for themselves. They don't care about me and they really don't care about you either.
 
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Agema

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Every time a US soldier has raped a civilian, those in his command are responsible to respond accordingly (prison, court martial). What happens if they shrug and say, "that's fine"?
Yes, they are bound to appropriate action, involving investigation, and potentially prosecution. Pelosi has set up an investigation to see what happened on 6th January, including potential security failures. So this seems to me like an appropriate response.

I cannot help but point out that the Republican caucus in the Senate, led by Mitch McConnell who shares every bit as much as responsibility as Nancy Pelosi for Congressional security (yet, mystifyingly, is not under attack from the Republicans blaming Pelosi), voted down an independent commission. Kevin McCarthy, Republican House minority leader, then decided he did not want to take part in a House commission. Are you sure Pelosi is the one metaphorically saying "that's fine" here?

In a way, that McConnell thing really is a giveaway. If the leaders of the Senate and House have joint responsibility and they clearly seem to from I what I can read, please explain to me the logic of only blaming Pelosi.

And any location with a concentration of people could be referred to as a "concentration camp" which would be non-judgemental. Kinda of like calling a teacher a child molester because they bother children. Bad use of the term. But AOC was actually likening it to a Nazi death camp. Suggesting to the suggestible that these were dens of violence and injustice. It is no wonder that some took that to be a call to action/violence.
It is at worse an exaggeration. Concentration camps were of course invented by the UK and also have been practised by the USA, for all that they are most famously associated with Nazi Germany. And even still, there is just no reasonable way to equate it with a call to action such as:

"We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore... So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue... And we're going to the Capitol..."

(Although of course what he meant by "We" was "You". He went back to the stupendous luxury of the White House in his luxury car and watched TV.)
 

Adam Jensen

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It is a problem. Example: the recent critical race theory or whatever term you want to call lying to children about US history and making white people out to be the biggest problem in society.
This just goes to show how little you know about it. CRT is not that recent. It originated in the 70's and it is very well founded. The only recent thing about it is the fact that it is the latest boogyman that the right-wing media uses to scare its ignorant base with. Every couple of years they'll come up with something new to upset you. And lo and behold, you fell for another piece of their propaganda. Right on cue, as so many other right-wingers without critical thinking skills. It might have something to do with the fact that right-wing in the US is literally against critical thinking being taught: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html

They like you best when you're ignorant and obedient. And here you are, attacking a legitimate theory that you know nothing about because people who know nothing about it told you that you should be against it.
 

BrawlMan

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Just a stark reminder...


 
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Hades

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And they're wrong too. But the power, and the danger, is from the left. They control our schools, our media and largely, our government and deep state. They really are in a position to cause harm.
That's just nonsense. Globally the left is the weakest its ever been and in the US the left isn't even a factor anymore.

Take a look at just about every country of note and you'll find its being led by conservatives, Christian Democrats and various other right wingers. And in those countries you'll also find that the left is in a deep decline.

The Neoliberal revolution forced left wing parties to the right to be electorally viable, but over time its this shift to the right which has estranged left wing parties of their voters. The right has had the upper hand since the 80's and by now the left his largely been swept off the board completely.

I've heard a ton of things about what Trump has said and done, ie, calling our troops suckers, that end up being non-sense.
So far it seems to be a ''he said, she said'' situation but I can easily believe Trump said those things. After all he's obviously hostile to the post war world order which gives him a motive to scoff at the people who died to create it. Trump also has made a habit of mocking soldiers for their misery and as a coward who dodged the draft he has reasons to consider himself ''clever'' and those that failed to dodge conscription as ''suckers''.

Maybe Trump said that the fallen soldiers were suckers, maybe he didn't. But that its something Trump very well might have said does not reflect well on him.
 
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Buyetyen

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Example: the recent critical race theory or whatever term you want to call lying to children about US history and making white people out to be the biggest problem in society.
Literally no public school is teaching that, so it's okay.
 

dreng3

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I guess if you don't consider Democrats the left, you have a point. But do a search on things such as who teachers politically support, and it is the Democratic party.

Might that be because people with certain personalities, goals, and desires tend to gravitate towards certain professions? Teachers vote democrat, cops vote Republican, that's a pretty solid rule.

It might also be because teachers are actually educated to be reasonable people and Democrats, when compared to the Republicans in a two-party system, are the reasonable ones? There must be a reason that all those college professors lean left too.
 

Agema

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To an extent it doesn't matter if the Republican Party official membership withers away to nothingness, so long as business keeps funding it up the wazoo and enough of those ex-members keep voting for it. I mean, membership down 140,000 in the context of 75 million voting for it. :/

Except, arguably of course, the Party will increasingly be run by extremists who will find it much easier to dominate candidate selection. This might take a toll after a while. But then, it might also be that a load of those ex-members who now identify as Independent but carry on voting Republican are just as extreme, too.
 

happyninja42

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To an extent it doesn't matter if the Republican Party official membership withers away to nothingness, so long as business keeps funding it up the wazoo and enough of those ex-members keep voting for it. I mean, membership down 140,000 in the context of 75 million voting for it. :/

Except, arguably of course, the Party will increasingly be run by extremists who will find it much easier to dominate candidate selection. This might take a toll after a while. But then, it might also be that a load of those ex-members who now identify as Independent but carry on voting Republican are just as extreme, too.
Well also consider that, I think on average, the republican party tends to age more into the older demographics. So given the annual death rate for their target base, coupling that with a number of people unregistering (and assuming that's an annual rate, not just a single incident), that could add up to some significant reductions in their voting base, going forward. And while yes, unlisting yourself from the party, doesn't automatically mean you won't keep voting for them, odds are pretty good if you went to the trouble to actually do that, you don't plan on voting along that party line.
 
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Buyetyen

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Well also consider that, I think on average, the republican party tends to age more into the older demographics. So given the annual death rate for their target base, coupling that with a number of people unregistering (and assuming that's an annual rate, not just a single incident), that could add up to some significant reductions in their voting base, going forward. And while yes, unlisting yourself from the party, doesn't automatically mean you won't keep voting for them, odds are pretty good if you went to the trouble to actually do that, you don't plan on voting along that party line.
Note also the sudden 180 on vaccines from most Republican leadership now that the Delta variant is tearing ass through the red states. The Repubs resort to dirty tricks because demographically they're having a harder time competing every year.
 
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