A Flat Earth - Thoughts?

[Saint of M]

When did the whole "world is flat" thing start anyways? Because lets face it the ancient Greeks thought it was round, and so did Culumbus and those exploring the world like him.

But if this world was flat, a disk world if you would, where is the Invisible College, a charming DEATH, his snarky granddaughter, or the turtle carrying the whole thing?

 

[The Lunatic]

As far as I'm aware, the whole flat earth thing is entirely satire, and I refuse to believe otherwise in any circumstances.

 

[Hawki]

As far as I'm aware, the whole flat earth thing is entirely satire, and I refuse to believe otherwise in any circumstances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ylYvNnP1rg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erA3WQE9Zes

It's disturbingly real.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Then again, he's also terribad with allegory and metaphor. He legit didn't get the central twist of the Lego Movie and was like "waaaaaaaat reaaaaally?" when I explained it to him. XD

As someone who finds the Lego Movie overrated, but also who doesn't want to be on the same level as a Flat Earther...

"So, the central twist is that almost everything that's happening in the film is the kid playing through a made up narrative-"

Ding ding ding. This is the part he didn't understand at all. And he complained that it was stupid and there's no way you can possibly figure that out without help because the movie didn't make it clear at all. XD

...Then again, he's also the same guy who, as one of the few people I know personally who has played my hobby RPGS, could not beat the final "cinematic" style fight at the end of one of them, so...

This is basically how that convo went:

Him: "The last fight is garbage hard man, even on Easy!"
Me: "Wat. It's the easiest fight in the game, with the simplest combat puzzle! What are you doing to lose it?"
Him: "Oh, I just mashed attack the whole time"
Me: "...Wat. But the whole game is based on using your Skills to counter enemy strategies. And this fight completely changes the hero's Skills, including the name of his Skill Menu! The second you open up the Skill Menu it should be super clear what to do to wi-"
Him: "But the cutscene made me look OP. If the cutscene makes me look OP I should be able to just mash attack and win!"
Me: "...Seriously? ...How many times did you fight the boss?"
Him: "6 times!"
Me: "You...fought it 6 times and didn't think to do anything other than mash attack? ...But..Like...If it didn't work the first 2 times, why-"
Him: "THE CUTSCENE MADE ME LOOK OP! Obviously I should be able to win by mashing attack!"
Me: *dying inside*

 

[Chessrook44]

I live over near NYC and work in the city itself, and while working in one building I had a thought of something that I'd wish to try bringing up to a flat-earther sometime.

What I'd do, is take them up to the top of one of the skyscrapers in NYC and point out over to the horizon, particularly east and southeast. They'd likely comment on how it clearly looks flat, just look at the edge of the ocean that you can SEE there.

I'd simply nod, turn to them, point to the horizon to the southeast, and ask them "If the Earth is flat, why can't we see Africa on the other side of the ocean that way?"

I'd love to see their explanation or rationalization for that. Unless it's a simple "Well that's on the other coast", in which case I'd just be disappointed.

 

[Saint of M]

Or if the workd is technicly flat, why are there cliffs and csnyons and hills

 

[EvilRoy]

Beyond that, I've never had a satisfactory response to the pendulum problem, or an explanation as to why they can't just launch a camera in a weather balloon and demonstrate it (something I've done for a little less than $200).

Many claim they actually have launched such devices and have had their suspicious confirmed. Most, however, for all they claim to know, have no concept of just how big the earth is and that curvature may not be clearly evident at heights attainable by your average Joe NutJob. One of my favorite arguments they have is that if satellites are real and there are hundreds of them orbiting the earth, why don?t we see them in pictures of the earth? Well, the largest, man-made body orbiting our planet is the International Space Station, and its largest dimension is roughly 350 feet; the earth is 8,000 miles in diameter. I challenge anyone to see, let alone identify, any specific 350 foot-long body in a span of 42 MILLION feet from over a MILLION feet away. IDIOTS!! It wouldn?t be so frustrating if their nonsense wasn?t so easily debunked with common fucking sense!

Made all the worse by the fact that you totally can see the ISS from ground without aid, just have to wait for it to zip across the moon or keep an eye on the horizon for a very regular curved plane/shooting star. There's even a cool website where you can enter your location and it will give you ideal times to take a look and see it on the go.

If you drop a couple hundred bucks on a P400 camera you can zoom in and get a good look, for a chunk of change more with the P1000 you can start to make out details and get a beautiful view of the moons craters. I've actually had the thing screw up an otherwise nice shot of the moon by causing a weird thin smudge across the bright moon (long exposure and the little bastard is really screaming along so it makes a darker smudgy kind of line as it tracks across the moon).

If you live in a place where you can escape city light reasonably, I suggest doing it just for fun even if you don't have a fancy camera (or if you're one of those oddly specific enthusiasts with attachable telescoping lenses for your cellphone and a tripod). Its very impressive to see that thing fire so fast across the sky.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

As far as I'm aware, the whole flat earth thing is entirely satire, and I refuse to believe otherwise in any circumstances.

Perhaps that's the intention, but the thing about satire is that you always get people who take it as gospel truth.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Sorta. A while back I tried this myself, and at least with my vision, smaller vessels disappear in the horizon before they disappear under the horizon.

However, if you were on a ship going towards a mountain, really big lighthouse, or the Colossus of Rhodes, you'd see the top before the bottom. There's a WW2 era(ish) training film made by the Americans about how to use lighthouses, you have to look up the power of the lighthouse in a big book and it's height above sea level and compare it to your height above sea level and work out how far away you can see it.

So Columbus sailing to the Americas proved the Earth was round...on the very first day of the voyage.

Sorry for not responding sooner... my flight back into Sydney was only 2 hours ago and I was running around the last two days. Also, yeah ... I mean if your eyesight isn't shot and it's a big enough object you're gauging. It's more noticeable things like beaches in comparison to harbour-side cliffs and the like.

That being said, once again, hard to imagine a mariner who thought the world flat.

 

[sXeth]

Oh yeah, I've got the friend who likes to spew the flat earth (and assorted other gibberish) out in a regular stream on facebook.

He retreats back to the "Well I just wanted to make you think and research conclusions" spiel when proven wrong. Except he'll still come back around and post the same crap again afterwards.

 

[TakeyB0y2]

The flat earth one is kinda unique in just how pointless it is. Like there is just no reason, if the earth were actually flat, the spooky global elites would actually bother covering it up. It would just be a normal thing.

The alien visitors conspiracy theory could be semi-justified with "well they want to prevent a panic" or something but with the flat earth we have an illuminati who just does it for the lulz.

I once read an argument for why they're covering it up. The argument was this:

If the earth is flat, then that's definitive proof that God exists. If God exists, that means we were created by God, ergo we are special. But if the earth is round, then the universe may conform to an atheistic point of view, and with atheism people aren't special we're just an accident that happened. If we think we're not special, we're easier to control and are more likely to sin and turn away from God. Essentially to them, the round earth is a conspiracy created by and spread by the devil to get people to turn away from God.

There are of course secular flat earth beliefs, but I find a lot of the time, it's a religious conviction.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Or if the workd is technicly flat, why are there cliffs and csnyons and hills

Fun fact, the distance between the earth?s highest and lowest points is only 11 miles; were you to shrink the earth down to the size of a pool ball, it?d be smoother than the pool ball!

The flat earth one is kinda unique in just how pointless it is. Like there is just no reason, if the earth were actually flat, the spooky global elites would actually bother covering it up. It would just be a normal thing.

The alien visitors conspiracy theory could be semi-justified with "well they want to prevent a panic" or something but with the flat earth we have an illuminati who just does it for the lulz.

I once read an argument for why they're covering it up. The argument was this:

If the earth is flat, then that's definitive proof that God exists. If God exists, that means we were created by God, ergo we are special. But if the earth is round, then the universe may conform to an atheistic point of view, and with atheism people aren't special we're just an accident that happened. If we think we're not special, we're easier to control and are more likely to sin and turn away from God. Essentially to them, the round earth is a conspiracy created by and spread by the devil to get people to turn away from God.

There are of course secular flat earth beliefs, but I find a lot of the time, it's a religious conviction.

Yes, many fundamental believers think the ?globe model? is a cover up disguising the existence of God? which is just dumb. I mean think about it: that would mean that at some point, some human beings discovered an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God, and instead of falling down prostrate in awe, they immediately devised a highly complex system of lies and deception to hide him (or her, equal opportunity over here,) and this same God allowed it. It doesn?t make any kind of sense, even by their own, twisted ?logic.?

Besides, why are they convinced that a book written and translated hundreds upon hundreds of times over the course of thousands of years is to be taken literally. I?m Agnostic, so I?ll give them ?God,? but my God endowed us with the ability to think rationally and critically, imbued us with intelligence, and wouldn?t expect blind adherence to thousands of years old words on a page that often contradict what we?re able to observe, calculate and experience. I?d much rather think that the reality we all share and are able to figure out are a part of that God?s process and plan. But that?s me.

 

[an annoyed writer]

Then again, he's also terribad with allegory and metaphor. He legit didn't get the central twist of the Lego Movie and was like "waaaaaaaat reaaaaally?" when I explained it to him. XD

As someone who finds the Lego Movie overrated, but also who doesn't want to be on the same level as a Flat Earther...

"So, the central twist is that almost everything that's happening in the film is the kid playing through a made up narrative-"

Ding ding ding. This is the part he didn't understand at all. And he complained that it was stupid and there's no way you can possibly figure that out without help because the movie didn't make it clear at all. XD

...Then again, he's also the same guy who, as one of the few people I know personally who has played my hobby RPGS, could not beat the final "cinematic" style fight at the end of one of them, so...

This is basically how that convo went:

Him: "The last fight is garbage hard man, even on Easy!"
Me: "Wat. It's the easiest fight in the game, with the simplest combat puzzle! What are you doing to lose it?"
Him: "Oh, I just mashed attack the whole time"
Me: "...Wat. But the whole game is based on using your Skills to counter enemy strategies. And this fight completely changes the hero's Skills, including the name of his Skill Menu! The second you open up the Skill Menu it should be super clear what to do to wi-"
Him: "But the cutscene made me look OP. If the cutscene makes me look OP I should be able to just mash attack and win!"
Me: "...Seriously? ...How many times did you fight the boss?"
Him: "6 times!"
Me: "You...fought it 6 times and didn't think to do anything other than mash attack? ...But..Like...If it didn't work the first 2 times, why-"
Him: "THE CUTSCENE MADE ME LOOK OP! Obviously I should be able to win by mashing attack!"
Me: *dying inside*

How many focus groups has this guy been a part of, if you don?t mind me asking? Because he sounds like he just came from one...

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

How many focus groups has this guy been a part of, if you don?t mind me asking? Because he sounds like he just came from one...

I honestly wish I knew. XD

 

[Xprimentyl]

After nearly a year and a half, I made the mistake of re-opening the ?flat earth? can of worms with my friend a couple of days ago; he mentioned something about gravity (not the force, but in another context,) and I couldn?t help myself, I popped in my witty dentures and bit him: ?Oh, so NOW you believe in gravity?? He laughed me off at first, but about an hour later, the texts and video ?proofs? started rolling in anew. We?d already agreed we wouldn?t discuss his beliefs in earnest long ago, but my exhaustion over how positively asinine the flat earth conspiracy is quickly turned the corner and became foaming-at-the-mouth anger. I was livid; sent him a half dozen wall-of-text responses and as many ?flat earth debunked? videos, all against my better judgement. But it?s when he accused me of ?not doing [my] research? that it hit me and what makes this nonsense debate so damned frustrating: I thought flat earthers were simply intellectually inferior, but they?re intellectually dishonest.

?Research? means that you take a question, observe as much objective data as possible and reach a logical inference or conclusion. You can start off with a hypothesis, but you have to end where the data leads you. Flat earthers start with a conclusion, hand select the bits of data that suit their purpose and infer everything else is wrong. What the two-fucks kind of logic is that? Their videos = evidence, rational person?s videos = faked. Their explanation = proof, rational person?s explanation = lie. Every question they ask might as well be rhetorical, because they flat out ignore every rational and correct answer they get. I just wish they could look at themselves objectively and see how full of shit they are at the fundamental level, regardless of what they believe. I?d almost wager they suffer from some form of narcissistic personality disorder, but as the only medical degrees I have are the hash marks on my rectal thermometer, I certainly won?t be putting out any ?I?m 100% Positive That All Flat Earthers Have Narcissistic Personality Disorder And Here?s The Proof? videos on YouTube and subsequently ignoring every psychologist that tries to tell me otherwise.

My friend bragged that the ?flat earth community? was nearly 10 million strong and that people are waking up; I did the math for him and pointed out that given there?s about 7 billion people on earth, I wouldn?t call 0.1% of all people believing that bullshit ?waking up? so much as it would be ?a silent fart whilst in a coma.?

 

[Kyrian007]

Flat earth theory always brought into mind the television show Jericho, which took place on a flat earth.

No, really it did. It supposedly happened in the fictional town of Jericho, Kansas. Supposedly (I guess) in western Kansas. A line of dialogue references being able to see the Rocky Mountains from western Kansas... No. You can't. Because the earth is round. Because the curvature of the earth prevents you from seeing mountains that far away. So if there was a Costco in the next town over (there weren't back then) and you could SEE mountains in Colorado... the earth in that show must have been flat.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

You think Flat Earthers are bad? Well one has finally recanted their insane beliefs, and seen the light ... ... kinda.

 

[CaitSeith]

Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

 

[Xprimentyl]

You think Flat Earthers are bad? Well one has finally recanted their insane beliefs, and seen the light ... ... kinda.

Now we?re a fucking donut? [small]god damn it.[/small]

Not sure if you watched the video near the start of the article, but a typically arrogant and self-assured flat earther states the two reasons why ?the lie? (and he never quite identifies who exactly started and is perpetuating this ?lie?) are 1.) all the money NASA has raises?. Yeah, apparently NASA RAISES money, and 2.) to make people feel insignificant and easier to control. Baseless facts stringing together nonsense and non sequitur. How they manage to sleep at night making up things to believe while ignoring empirical evidence directly in their faces, in fact, outright calling said evidence ?a lie? simply because they can?t disprove it (for obvious fucking reasons)?. It?s just supremely, superbly and superlatively idiotic.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

Thank you for sharing that; it is refreshing to hear an attempt at a rational take on how in every fuck flat earthers believe what they believe, though I?d have preferred it have been a medical/phsychological bent over a philosophical one, i.e.: yes, they think differently, but is it because of a severe form of brain damage?