A question for non British people

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Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
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FurKlarheitIchRant said:
sory but any tory suport gets me ANGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR slober slober fiting on the floor
You're excused I guess. Either way I don't care. Labour have had their shot, it's only fair someone else gets a turn. As far as I'm concerned with leadership it doesn't matter, the public will usually dislike whoever holds the job titles of Prime Minister.

I've not had any qualms about any of Mr. Cameron's decisions so far. I mean I work in the public sector and I've had my pay frozen; but hell the place operates smoothly under our Conservative MP. At least we know where the cuts are coming from and who they'll hit.

This is going wildly off topic though so I'll sit this out from this point forward.
 

Zizzousa

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Nov 30, 2010
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Azure-Supernova said:
I'm sorry but sometimes people in positions of power have to make tough decisions. That's what they're there for. David Cameron is taking it on the chin right now; responses over unpopular policies and reforms; well guess what: sometimes they just have to be done.
Could not agree more; but Cameron and Thatcher have in common that when there's mess to clean up, they hit the poorest the hardest. It's what the Tories are there for. Saying 'I'm sorry, they just have to make tough decisions' like we don't understand that is really, really patronising. The working class understand that tough choices have to be made - but it is an absolute statistical fact that Thatcher, and now Cameron, did and are doing a lot, lot more damage to the working classes than to the upper-middle and beyond. They're not going to fuck over their friends.
 

coolkirb

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Jan 28, 2011
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C95J said:
Well since I was born in 1995, I never got close to witnessing her way of running the country, but judging by the opinions of the majority, I think I am lucky not to have had her as PM.

Also, if everyone hated her, then why was she PM for so long?

If I were to guess it is because the vast majority of the people on this site are left-wing in ideology (as most young people are), thus in general you will find more left wing people on the internet in general because it is a "younger Persons" medium. Other than that I dont realy know enough as the adage goes one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.
 

moment_fast

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Sep 18, 2010
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yesjam said:
Canadian here, so I'm a part of the commonwealth...but yes, I've heard of ol' Maggie Thatcher countless times, she's a common punchline to jokes around here.
really, i've never heard of her and im from the great white north
 

FurKlarheitIchRant

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Nov 9, 2010
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Zizzousa said:
***** was friends with Pinochet. As in super evil Chilean dictator.

Oh and apart from that, yeah, basically destroyed my home county, managed to render both of my parents unemployed within the same three month period, etc, as well as did awesome things like repeatedly using Scotland as guinea pig for risky policies (poll tax being the most memorable) because, well, let's face it, the people up there just aren't important like the English ones are because there's only 5 million of them.

I get what she was trying to do, but if there's a hell, I swear to God she's going there. It's going to be weird when she dies though...are we meant to mourn someone everyone hated?
Solidarity I may not be Scottish but I am welsh and we have been under the sasanack boot for 800 years. I mean at least you've got a politically separate parliament, we've only got an assembly.
 

Arjen Swellengrebel

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Feb 15, 2010
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RelexCryo said:
Arjen Swellengrebel said:
I heard of her first from the movie "Billy Elliot". But no, I'm probably not old enough to know her well enough to have an opinion. Anyone who sends their people out to war though, is a horrible person by definition.
Except that war is often necessary to overthrow evil dictators and bring freedom to enslaved people. Do you feel that the allies were horrible people for choosing to fight Hitler?
No, I feel that Hitler was detestable for starting that war. You're right, of course. But I cannot help but feel that the person sending the allies to their deaths is a horrible, horrible guy whom I happen to owe a lot to. Sometimes people have to make mistakes.
 

FurKlarheitIchRant

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Nov 9, 2010
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coolkirb said:
C95J said:
Well since I was born in 1995, I never got close to witnessing her way of running the country, but judging by the opinions of the majority, I think I am lucky not to have had her as PM.

Also, if everyone hated her, then why was she PM for so long?
the kind of people that hold live wires to see what it feels like, thats who .
 

Eumersian

Posting in the wrong thread.
Sep 3, 2009
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I've heard of her. Heard that she was a horrible person too. Monty Python did make fun of her after all. But never take a comedian's opinion on things. They tend to trivialize it so that it's funny rather than unfortunate.
 

Sleekgiant

Redlin5 made my title :c
Jan 21, 2010
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Lonan said:
Sleekgiant said:
Nope, never heard of her.
Would anyone but an American speak with such arrogance? I knew you were American before I saw you're profile. Treat the suffering of people with more respect. Say nothing if you know nothing. I personally think of her quite positively but the harm she caused was quite evident from what the OP was saying. To come in and just slap aside such an emotional issue is extremely disrespectful.
All I can say is, I still don't know who she is and don't give a shit.
 

Azure-Supernova

La-li-lu-le-lo!
Aug 5, 2009
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Zizzousa said:
Could not agree more; but Cameron and Thatcher have in common that when there's mess to clean up, they hit the poorest the hardest. It's what the Tories are there for. Saying 'I'm sorry, they just have to make tough decisions' like we don't understand that is really, really patronising. The working class understand that tough choices have to be made - but it is an absolute statistical fact that Thatcher, and now Cameron, did and are doing a lot, lot more damage to the working classes than to the upper-middle and beyond. They're not going to fuck over their friends.
I really can't offer anything other than anecdotal evidence on this front. I work in the public sector and my pay's been frozen. My point however was simply that whoever won the election tough decisions would have been made. I'm not exactly a Tory whore but maybe their stint in power might encourage Labour to try a different approach?

I possess no degree in economics or politics so this is near enough from the eyes of the working man. There seemed to be a lot of Tory conversions in the election. Even my town and the surrounding towns (all past mining and market towns) went from Labour to Conservative.
As a nation we minds as well sit it out and see how it goes.
 

FurKlarheitIchRant

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Nov 9, 2010
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Trivun said:
Oh come on, I'm British and although she wasn't a perfect leader, she was damn good at what she did. The country needed a strong and capable leader, and someone who wasn't Labour (because look at what Labour were like back then, they only became half decent again with Blair and 'New Labour', and even then they screwed up after a while anyway...). Being a great leader is often completely at odds with said leader being liked. You can please some of the people all of the time, or you can please all of the people some of the time, but it's naive to think you can please all of the people all of the time. And most of the time, what's best for us as a country isn't necessarily what we want, and we need a strong and ruthless leader to do what's best for us, for our benefit in the long run. Oh, and I live in the North now, and it is absolutely thriving and bustling. Visit Leeds, Manchester, or York, among other places, to see what I mean.

As far as the Falklands go, that was a major morale boost and victory for this country, and regarding the whole Miner's Strike thing, I actually support the government's actions there. I'm all for trade unions, but unions have way too much power, and they are even now directly causing major problems for the UK economy. Strikes all the time, and every union around demanding higher pay and benefits when they seem to miss the single basic fact that this country cannot afford it. At all. I suffered myself the effects of strike action just last year, when the noble and great (note the sarcasm) bin-men of Leeds decided they shouldn't have to face the same cuts that everyone else was facing. Cue roughly four months of bins not being collected (and in a massively student-populated area, no less) in an action that the bin-men eventually lost anyway, to avoid cuts that they eventually succumbed to regardless. And this was entirely because the local council couldn't afford to pay them the same wages. Also note that the local bin-men get paid quite a large sum anyway compared to a lot of public sector jobs, they earn more than my dad (who earns around £30,000 a year and is a contracts manager for a building firm). Seriously.

So yes, the unions have too much power, and the government is doing nothing against that, nothing to tighten their hold and stop these outrageous actions and strikes and so on that the unions insist on to get their own way, to the detriment of everyone else. Margaret Thatcher, for all her faults, did plenty to prevent the unions abusing their power so much, and for that I feel she should be commended. I'm glad a biopic is being made of her, and I hope that it shows both sides, the good and the bad, in equal parts, but also shows that the hate people have for the Iron Lady is indeed misplaced. Either way, it's certainly a film I will gladly pay to see upon release.
come on at least accept the principle that to increase a nations net fiscal growth spending must be encouraged.

IE labours point being spend now to make money then pay it off later.

then again i may be slightly biased
 

Lonan

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Dec 27, 2008
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Sleekgiant said:
Lonan said:
Sleekgiant said:
Nope, never heard of her.
Would anyone but an American speak with such arrogance? I knew you were American before I saw you're profile. Treat the suffering of people with more respect. Say nothing if you know nothing. I personally think of her quite positively but the harm she caused was quite evident from what the OP was saying. To come in and just slap aside such an emotional issue is extremely disrespectful.
All I can say is, I still don't know who she is and don't give a shit.
Then any of the small qualms I had about my previous post being fair, are now gone. Saying you've never heard of her isn't a contribution to the discussion. Saying you don't give a fuck is not only rude, it is also irrelevant.
 

DragonBorn96

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Jan 17, 2011
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She's still kicking, I don't really follow our politics so I generally had no clue she was till here. :p
 

Para199x

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Nov 18, 2010
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FurKlarheitIchRant said:
Zizzousa said:
***** was friends with Pinochet. As in super evil Chilean dictator.

Oh and apart from that, yeah, basically destroyed my home county, managed to render both of my parents unemployed within the same three month period, etc, as well as did awesome things like repeatedly using Scotland as guinea pig for risky policies (poll tax being the most memorable) because, well, let's face it, the people up there just aren't important like the English ones are because there's only 5 million of them.

I get what she was trying to do, but if there's a hell, I swear to God she's going there. It's going to be weird when she dies though...are we meant to mourn someone everyone hated?
Solidarity I may not be Scottish but I am welsh and we have been under the sasanack boot for 800 years. I mean at least you've got a politically separate parliament, we've only got an assembly.
I find the scottish, welsh, irish and any other nationalists quite comical. Do you really think Britain as a whole will be a powerful nation in say 100 years? Not if it stays as it is, and if Scotland and/or Wales gain independence they are going to slide quite far in a lot shorter time than that.
 

kwagamon

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Jun 24, 2010
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I've heard of her, but never anything about her. Don't know what she did, but judging by the fact that you're saying she killed the industry etc. I'm guessing it was nothing good. I suppose you could say my first impression of her was bad, I guess.
 

FurKlarheitIchRant

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Nov 9, 2010
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coolkirb said:
C95J said:
Well since I was born in 1995, I never got close to witnessing her way of running the country, but judging by the opinions of the majority, I think I am lucky not to have had her as PM.

Also, if everyone hated her, then why was she PM for so long?

If I were to guess it is because the vast majority of the people on this site are left-wing in ideology (as most young people are), thus in general you will find more left wing people on the internet in general because it is a "younger Persons" medium. Other than that I dont realy know enough as the adage goes one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.
i must agree with you but as a Humanitys and RE student that quote is extremely overused
 

RelexCryo

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Oct 21, 2008
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FurKlarheitIchRant said:
brodie21 said:
FurKlarheitIchRant said:
brodie21 said:
its an oscar grab. made by old people for old people, see the escape to the movies episode on the kings speech and you will see why they are making this.

that said, i have never heard of margaret thatcher, could someone enlighten me?
where you from could help make an apt comparison although the easy ones are she-devil Beelzebub cruela devil and the worst way to spend a vote.
you are obviously new, so let me be nice, "where you are from could help make an apt comparison, although the easy ones are she-devil, Beelzebub, Cruella Deville, and the worst way to spend a vote." corrections are in bold. please try to use correct grammar.

anyway, i am from America. but you dont need to know that because comparisons dont need to be made, just tell me what she did and why she is hated.
very well then (a touch offended) she was a PM in the 80s hated for her decision to import cheap coal, destroying British industry, and Privatising many public surfaces. this created mass unemployment. to get the idea of the cultural mood at the time watch V for Vendetta based on a comic book written at the time.

and please refrain from patronization as it is quite annoying. "Garrb Garrb I don't like the toan of your voice young man".
EDIT: Wrong quote.
 

McShizzle

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Jun 18, 2008
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FurKlarheitIchRant said:
McShizzle said:
Blitzwarp said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Blitzwarp said:
Daystar Clarion said:
She sucked, but I don't really see how we could have avoided the Falklands war.

Those sneaky Argentinians...
Actually...we kinda started the war. Thatcher ordered the British Navy to open fire on a civilian Argentinian ship that wasn't anywhere near the fleet. The Argentinians attacking us was a retaliatory gesture. Thatcher wanted a war to distract the British public from the fact she was slowly but surely screwing anybody who wasn't rich and white, I.E., Conservative. :/

OT: I hate Thatcher and Meryl Streep, so this movie will be on my LA LA LA THIS DOESN'T EXIST list from now on, methinks.
Which conspiracy theorist came up with that one? It's very well known that the Argentinians want the Falklands, hell some politicians running for office still bloody talk about reclaiming them.

All you need to know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_war
I'm citing knowledge gained from reading two books on the subject, watching a documentary written by Andrew Marr, and having a father who lived through the war who also has extensive qualifications in modern British history.

You're citing from Wikipedia.
Wow, patently ridiculous. At the opening of hostilities the "fleet" to which you refer consisted of 1 ship which was closer to a survey vessel than a warship, and the event to which you refer does not exist. Also, the wikipedia article which you so quickly deride is quite well cited. You, not so much.
sorry but the Falklands war was a pointless excuse for two nations to relive some political pressure , ye gods the Iraq war had a larger need.
Of course it was an excuse to relieve political pressure. It was the direct aim in the case of Argentina and a side bonus in the case of England. I fail to see what other actions could really have transpired. Do you think that a military junta, perceiving weakness in British parliament, would have negotiated withdrawal, when any perceived malleability in them could have well swept the heads from power? Or, do you hold that the government?s policy should have been to hang its far flung nationals out to dry, and then deal with the can of worms that opened up?
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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I've heard her described as the British Reagan and that the two would get together and beat up poor people for amusement.