A rant on PC fanboyism

[BoogieManFL]

It's not exclusive to the PC. Console players do it just as much. Each platform have their own strengths, weaknesses, and target audiences. I wish everyone would STFU about it.

-PCs for gaming-

Strengths:
More powerful (extreme amounts possible) which means better graphics, larger games, far less loading screens, more complex games in general are possible. Usually better interfaces, more control, games are curiously cheaper on average, can do more than just game and browse the web, and of course - mods.

Weaknesses:
More expensive to develop games for, so many hardware combinations are possible it can be harder to find a nice balance that will work for most, more likely to have problems that require technical support, more expensive, hardware failures are almost always more expensive to resolve, more complicated operation, need to be maintained (drivers, antivirus, etc)

-Consoles-
Strengths: Cheaper, much easier and less expensive to develop games for, less probability to require tech support to get a game to work in multiplayer and such, they are all the same so hardware incompatibilities are virtually impossible.

Weaknesses:
Less powerful in almost every way, more expensive games, loading screens, more constrained/contained environments, loading screens, worse interface, more loading screens, less complex games.



In my opinion, if you've got the money and the know how - PCs are better overall even if you only count gaming. Game mods alone almost pull that off on it's own.

So which is "best" is quite relative. But does it really fucking matter? Really?

 

[DracoSuave]

PC gamers get shitty console ports and complain about that. They actually have a reason.

And why is that, do you think?

Is it because consoles are shitty? No, actually, they are not. Not any more. They are powerful machines, with processing power well above the price point.

Have you possibly considered that the higher the system requirements, the more expensive a game is to create? And that it is much.. MUCH cheaper to create games with the expectation of a lower system requirement, because the majority of people buying the game for PC won't ever use the higher system specs? It's literally a waste of money that raises prices for no gain to the average consumer?

There are games that leverage the PC's strengths... sometimes a game is better with over a hundred buttons (MMOs, RTSs) and sometimes it's a lot cheaper to release a game with low cost with no middleman (Indy games I'm looking at you) but when you want to go Triple A... well... computers are just not the best platform for how much the company gets per dollar spent.

In an era where game development is getting more and more expensive, and PC gamers are demanding more and more shineys because of the money they put into their systems... maybe companies simply can't afford to focus on them any more. There just isn't enough money in it to justify making PC games their top priority.

There's many facets to the problem and rampant hat of consoles OR PCs doesn't help PC gamers get what they want.

But yes, a lot of it is entitlement... PC gamers feel entitled to games of quality the money they pay does not support. That's a reality that has nothing to do with consoles... be glad they have consoles to make their money from and make games at all.

 

[DeleteThisAcc]

Ugh... PC gamer here. And :
"As for the "dumbing down" of PC games for the console crowd, who do you think does the dumbing down in the first place? Developers. That's who you should blame. "
Is WRONG. There is a lot more console gamers than PC gamers - so they make dumbed down games for numbers - more console gamers screaming for dumbed down games , more such games they make. So it's you to blame for that. Now I don't mind dumb games. Unless they just stop making games for PC (console ports isn't PC games). Example - Alice madness returns - lock on enemy? auto peeper grinder lock on enemies weak spot?! Yes without these it would be unplayable on consoles. With these it's ruined for PC. All I wanted was American Mcgee's Alice type where you have to aim not "Caps Lock, melee attack, Tab, Tab, ranged attack....". Yes it is possible to aim manually ... good luck with that.

Now game pad vs keyboard and mouse - personal preference / depends on what you are playing - Devil may cry on PC with keyboard is hell.

Console gamers vs PC gamers - Console gamers starts treads attacking PC gamers -> PC gamers defends themselves -> console gamers attack PC gamers more....

So console gamers don't be childish - YOU get all games on you consoles OF YOUR LIKING, we DON'T (yes we got starcraft 2 but you get more)

"Can't I just game in peace?" Yes, peasant, you can go now.

Seriously - you get games you like - PLAY THEM AND DON'T CRY AROUND. We don't get games we like - IT'S OUR TIME TO CRY.

 

[Tdc2182]

You would undoubtedly hate it if console gamers were constantly blaming PC gamers for more complicated games or the PCification of console games.

As if they don't already do that. I don't know about these forums, but generally PC gamers are usually the victims, not the other way around.

I've never heard of anything where PC players could be considered victims.

OT: They have every reason to feel superior.

They've put a minimum of a thousand dollars to rub it in your face, all for the perfect settings. Let them.

I don't have too update my Xbox 360 every other year.... Red ring of death doesn't count.

 

[socialmenace42]

PCification of console games.

Seriously? Computers were around before consoles. That's a fact. Therefore all games can only be "console-ised" and not the other way around.

I kinda see what you mean, but if you take the fact that there have been consoles for so long that certain games get designed specifically for them now, they could be PCified.

In all honesty, I think some people have missed the point somehow. I'm a console gamer and I don't resent PC gamers (assuming for a moment that you can apply either of these labels since I'm in no way exclisivist) however i do feel disdain towards anyone who insists that their preferred medium is better than everyone elses. Even if you try to make a balanced argument out of it, it falles flat against the fact that preference is key.

I for example like the xbox 360 more than the PS3. I don't even have that many well based reasons for that, I just do. does that mean that I'm going to call people out far saying that they like the PS3 or that the xbox sucks? No.

 

[Maze1125]

If PC gaming is better than console gaming, what barriers are stopping it from being the most popular outside of certain PC-based genres (MMOs, RTSs, etc)

The average consumer and the fact the average consumer cares more about things being as simple as possible rather than being good.

I hate to say this, but there are reasons that the PC isn't as prevalent a platform and you can't simply handwave those reasons with a 'It's just better' and a torrent of fanboyism while decrying the fact that the platform is dying.

Yes, there are reasons?
And?
None of those reasons mean it's not better, just that it's not as attractive to your average consumer.

Also, PC gaming isn't dying at all.
According to people PC gaming has been "dying" for 20 years.

Those are to contradictory opinions. Either it is better or it is dying.

Hate to break it to you, but it's pretty much accepted nowadays that Social Darwinism is total bollocks.
Things can be better and yet still lose out.

Fact is, some -aspects- of PC gaming is better, but others are absolutely terrible. Developers will mention the problems inherent in having less unified hardware than consoles. Comparing raw stats between a console and a PC is as valid as comparing the clock speed of an intel and an AMD. That's nice , band allut the numbers aren't comparable given the architecture differences.

That doesn't mean they're not comparable, you just have to account for the differences.

My PS3 might have had its network hacked... but I don't have to run and do research on the latest anti-virus and anti-spyware in order to use it without having a million pop-ups up.

Neither do I. It called being sensible and not downloading a load of spy-ware in the first place.

In fact... looking at the Ram issue of a console vs a PC, how much of the RAM in a console is dedicated to the game itself? Almost all of it. How much in a PC? Well, let's see, running your anti spyware, anti virus, directx, drivers, drivers, more drivers, SecoRom, Steam, and whatever other non-game related cruft you need to run to keep things going smoothly, plus interface elements for each of the above?

It's. Not. Comparable. If you think it is, you're wrong.

Well, I know for a fact that all those things can run on 4 gig of RAM or less. So, given my system has 8 gig of RAM available for use, that leaves at least 4 gig left over for dedicated gaming. More than any console.

Fact: PC Gaming isn't making as much money as console gaming.

That's the ONLY fact that matters, and if you can't get THAT through your head, then blaming consoles, console gamers, or anyone else is a waste of time and bandwidth. Instead, look at THAT problem, and do what you can to solve it, not make it worse.

That's exactly the fact I'm looking at, console gaming makes more money because the average consumer prefers things to be simpler rather than better. So they buy the simpler thing rather than the better thing.

From there, people who want to make money see that they should make things simpler in order to make that money, and dedicate themselves to the simpler systems.

The result being that the better, more complex, system is left out in the cold.

What is the original cause of that, the people who throw their money and the simplest and least complex things, regardless of their actual quality.

Of course, you can arbitrarily redefine the word "better" as "the most appealing thing". But that doesn't change anything, it's just an attempt at an equivocation fallacy.

Yes, consoles are much simpler to use than PCs.
Yes, most people prefer simpler things.
Yes, as a result gaming PCs sell a lot less well than console. Equally, their games.

So, yes, I feel it's quite clear the cause of a lot of dumbing down in gaming is down to your average console player not wanting games to be any more complex.

And so, yes, I feel quite justified in blaming said console players for the dumbing down.

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't just confine this view to gaming, but all consumerism. I very much dislike how much of the world is being made a simple as possible because people refuse to learn how to use more complex things, and as a result functionality is lost. Console gaming is simply the occasion of this at hand.

Cause, how do those boycotts [http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/how-not-to-boycott-modern-warfare-2/] work out for ya?

Well that was a real non-sequitur...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

In fact... looking at the Ram issue of a console vs a PC, how much of the RAM in a console is dedicated to the game itself? Almost all of it. How much in a PC? Well, let's see, running your anti spyware, anti virus, directx, drivers, drivers, more drivers, SecoRom, Steam, and whatever other non-game related cruft you need to run to keep things going smoothly, plus interface elements for each of the above?

It's. Not. Comparable. If you think it is, you're wrong.

You're right, it's not comparable. 'Almost all' of 512Mb is nowhere near the same as "around half" (Windows is a resource pig) of 4Gb plus another 512-1024Mb of dedicated GPU RAM.

Yes, Any system resource in a dedicated system architecture is more efficiently used than any resource in a non-dedicated system architceture. This has been true from the very beginning and remains forever true. It's not rocket science, it's very very very basic computer science.

If you were arguing for more efficient use of resources due to dedicated architecture and far less OS bloat I don't disagree... However if you're going to argue that these efficiencies are sufficient to overcome what has now become a massive deficiency in available resources... well, I'd like to hear how.

I mean, how 256Mb of 400Mz XDR RAM is equel to 2048Mb of 1333Hz DDR3 RAM would be something interesting to learn. No sarcasm there, it would be.

And no, your gaming rig is not a dedicated system architecture.

No, it's general computing open/non-dedicated (I use 'open' but some people only use that to mean 'non-proprietary') architecture like PCs are supposed to be.

Wasn't talking about my rig, anyway, mine has more RAM than I need for gaming because I like the extra room for large art projects.

Folding#Home is on PS3 for a reason, not just cause it's a way to play music. There's architectural advantages to the PS3 that PCs do not have, and that's why the researchers prefer certain types of calculations be done on the PS3.

Wait... you mean the distributed processing prog is on PS3 or that their main number cruncher is a PS3 network? Just having client application is nothing, it's very low requirement. Hell, distributed processing is based on the idea of harnessing as many platforms as possible, swapping out per unit performance in a dedicated network for a massive, distributed 'loose' network of platforms of lesser computational power.

Building a modest wee supercomputer out of networked PS3s running a 'Nix based OS, well that's just simple economics if you've got someone willing to bolt and wire the lot of them together. Far cheaper than buying one or trying to kludge one together from servers. I mean, if I was going to build a supercomputer I'd do it with FPGAs or qbit CPUs but the price on those is insane.

I don't doubt certain types of processes work more efficiently on the CELL CPU.

That is a FACT.

I'd like some clarification there.

 

[Fenix7]

I've never heard of anything where PC players could be considered victims.

Ironic that you're posting in a thread that is basically PC hate. Which, as mentioned many times in this thread, is not the first thread of this kind in these forums.

Also, there are plenty of people on the internet that use any chance they get to bash/make fun of PC gamers. Just head to any gaming site where people can comment on posts, whenever something along the lines of "X game will not come out on PC" is posted, many "lol PC gaming" and such posts will appear in a matter of minutes.

OT: They have every reason to feel superior.

They've put a minimum of a thousand dollars to rub it in your face, all for the perfect settings. Let them.

Sorry but what you just said oozes ignorance. To build a PC capable of running almost every new game on decent settings (better than what any other console can, anyway) you don't need thousands of dollars.

Anyway there's a sense of gratification most PC gamers get from being able to tinker with the game settings resulting in being able to play games your hardware technically shouldn't support, but you probably don't understand what it means.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Just so you know, the first gaming console was made in 1972. The first IBM PC was made in 1981.

Yeah but IBM didn't make the first personal computer. Hell, Radio Shack beat them by 4 years.


<3 TRS-80, 2nd thing I ever gamed on at home after a shitty Hanimax Pong+ console.

 

[Accountfailed]

nnnnnnope! ain't touchin' this one.

*exits in a fanciful manner*

 

[Popido]

Oh cmon! I cant blame the developers. They just point their faults at the console gamers.

How am I supposed to avoid this current trend? You could always just ignore the bad mouthing, but guess what choices I have? Avoiding these games. Now I just dont play or buy games anymore.

My gaming currently consist of downloading old games and waiting for modders and indie developers to create something "original". And thats what really gets me. The modder and indie community is now the well of "originality". If I complain that the current genres lack originality, Im getting directed to indie market.

The indie market is not taking wind because gaming is doing so "fucking awesome". The indie market is trying to answer to the lack of originality. No, lets just say talent.

Now, I dont hate consoles, but I do hate you. Because of you, games are being ript apart and sold in pieces, watered down and recycled with "new" coating. And I blame it on you. As its you who accepts this. Not me. Not humanity. You. You deserve every inch of my hate.

...

Rantity rant rant.

 

[DSK-]

God this makes me want to make a thread about 'Console elitism and fanboyism'. You know, just to make a change.

Seriously, no one really cares what gaming platform you enjoy using. Use what you feel comfortable with and ignore idiots spouting off things without at least stating the facts as to why they are good/bad.

As long as you enjoy playing on them, regardless of my or anyone else's opinions, it doesn't matter.

 

[dantoddd]

I've started visiting gaming forum's only recently and I find the PeeCee elitist annoying, and their demands rather stupid. Although being a PC gamer myself I understand where some of this is coming from. I also thing PC gaming is becoming resurgent again. I'm hearing a lot more from the industry about PC gaming. that is good thing in general and this is also probably emboldening some of the PC fan-boys.

 

[kasperbbs]

This could apply to any fanboy who thinks that his item is the best damn thing ever made. As a PC gamer i hold no grudge against consoles or their owners, i would buy one myself if i could spare the money. As for 'dumbing down' i don't really see it, mass effect 2 for example, a lot of people were pissed that they removed the inventory, i was actually glad that i didn't have to reequip my squad every 5 minutes because i picked up a better rifle/armor or an upgrade. And graphics, well developers could make games with increasingly better graphics but that would require us to upgrade our systems every six months, i'm playing games on high settings with my 3 year old rig and i'm happy, but i can see why some people could be pissed after spending thousands of dollars on their machine and not using it to it's full potential.

 

[Zyntoxic]

heh, for my part I'm ok with the lesser graphics considering I can't afford a new PC.

In any case:

I love my PC, I love my Xbox 360, I would really love to be able to afford the PS3 one day, and I've saved all my old consoles all the way back to the megadrive, and I love every one of my little gaming machines from the stationary ones to the handheld ones.

Point is they all have their charms, mmo:s are getting bigger and bigger, for most part keeping the PC alive and I do prefer mouse and keyboard for RTS and FPS, and some RPGs even do better on PC.
But no platform game like jak and daxter or rayman ever did as well on my PC as it did on my PS2, and I'm glad I never even touched Jade empire on the pc, for the flow of the game really suited the Xbox.
Snd seriously guys, there is no better party console than the Wii.
And I've never had so much fun with a zelda game as I had on the DS with panthom hourglas.

Elitism is silly on any part, and most of all it is limiting.

Sure it made me tremendously sad when they destroyed the lovely strategic combat system from DAO in Dragon age II to better suit the console controls.

It is equally strange and annoying like when me and my friend were comparing stories from ME1, both playing Infiltrator he on his console barely even could use his sniper in the boss fight, while I was almost disappointed at how easy it was with my mouse and keyboard.

I'm not saying either control is superior, but they are good for different things.

Like when a class mate, who was rather fanboyish of his 360 told me the 360 control was better for FPS because it required more skill... at this I lashed out and said sure I can also use a joystick for playing starcaft and say "i'm more skilled" but that in it self seemes rather daft.

It is just a shame that (this might just come off in a wrong way but I'm trying to explain in the best way I can) people get so locked up in their choice of platform, sure I definitley understand from an economical point of view, but it is this limitation that makes developers just look at where the money comes from, not where their game would fit the best, at a console, a PC or perhaps even hand held.
It should be about the experience but in the end it becomes about the money, and in the end even that is really not that hard to understand, even game devs needs to make a living.
So you can't put the blame on either side, we need to accept a little veriety, accept that diffrent things work for different purposes, it's like if I'd insist on running in heels because thoses sneakers look so damn ugly.
Then perhaps dev would make games that actually fits the platform they put it on.


A lot of people probably have said similar things, but there u have it from my perspective.

Love the games for what they are not the platforms.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Anyway there's a sense of gratification most PC gamers get from being able to tinker with the game settings resulting in being able to play games your hardware technically shouldn't support, but you probably don't understand what it means.

That's because many PC gamers are also PC hardware enthusiasts, ranging from people who just like to keep up with tech news on the hardware front through to extreme overclockers and those mad bastards who hand build their own components.

 

[Tdc2182]

Sorry but what you just said oozes ignorance. To build a PC capable of running almost every new game on decent settings (better than what any other console can, anyway) you don't need thousands of dollars.

Never said thousands. I said a thousand. This lab top that I'm using right now costs around 900 dollars, and it can barely run Minecraft on the highest settings.

If you focus entirely on gaming and gaming alone, you can build a decent gaming rig for a little over a thousand dollars US. I know multiple people who are purely PC gamers, and many of them have tried to set me up with a rig of my own.

They've all come back to me with the same price range. 950-1250$. I've looked into it extensively. The lowest I found on my own would have gotten me about 1100$

Anyway there's a sense of gratification most PC gamers get from being able to tinker with the game settings resulting in being able to play games your hardware technically shouldn't support, but you probably don't understand what it means.

You know that PC Elitism thing? It's really shining through you right about now.

And for the most part, that wasn't that I was talking about. It's 6 in the morning and I haven't gone to bed, so I'm gonna give the spark notes.

I was referring to how making games purely for PC is difficult, because PCs have a much broader scale of performance developers have to adapt their games for. It doesn't matter if you can play Crysis at the highest settings, you are going to have games that you can't run smoothly because a game wasn't designed with you in mind.

Ironic that you're posting in a thread that is basically PC hate. Which, as mentioned many times in this thread, is not the first thread of this kind in these forums.

Last time I checked he was complaining about how PC users tend to downcast Console users. I don't think there's any irony in this.

Also, there are plenty of people on the internet that use any chance they get to bash/make fun of PC gamers. Just head to any gaming site where people can comment on posts, whenever something along the lines of "X game will not come out on PC" is posted, many "lol PC gaming" and such posts will appear in a matter of minutes.

Never had that experience.

 

[DracoSuave]

PC gamers get shitty console ports and complain about that. They actually have a reason.

And why is that, do you think?

Is it because consoles are shitty? No, actually, they are not. Not any more. They are powerful machines, with processing power well above the price point.

Have you possibly considered that the higher the system requirements, the more expensive a game is to create? And that it is much.. MUCH cheaper to create games with the expectation of a lower system requirement, because the majority of people buying the game for PC won't ever use the higher system specs? It's literally a waste of money that raises prices for no gain to the average consumer?

There are games that leverage the PC's strengths... sometimes a game is better with over a hundred buttons (MMOs, RTSs) and sometimes it's a lot cheaper to release a game with low cost with no middleman (Indy games I'm looking at you) but when you want to go Triple A... well... computers are just not the best platform for how much the company gets per dollar spent.

In an era where game development is getting more and more expensive, and PC gamers are demanding more and more shineys because of the money they put into their systems... maybe companies simply can't afford to focus on them any more. There just isn't enough money in it to justify making PC games their top priority.

There's many facets to the problem and rampant hat of consoles OR PCs doesn't help PC gamers get what they want.

But yes, a lot of it is entitlement... PC gamers feel entitled to games of quality the money they pay does not support. That's a reality that has nothing to do with consoles... be glad they have consoles to make their money from and make games at all.

Fine example of CONSOLE fanboy that has no brain. " They are powerful machines, with processing power well above the price point." He thinks that all PC gamers want is better graphics... I still play System Shock 2. Inventory alone would make his brain explode, and you have to aim yourself there!

System Shock 2 is not a terribly good example of what games they are making these days, nor of the PC-elitists bawwwfest about how they aren't being catered to.

But hey, don't address the points on expense of development and just go 'Well System Shock 2 was good so you're wrong.' Way to make an irrelevant point.

And System Shock 2's inventory system wasn't great. There's better ways to accomplish the same depth. I much preferred Deus Ex for that.

Also, your being an asshat about it only proves the point.

PC gamers get shitty console ports and complain about that. They actually have a reason.

<- amen /thread

You don't pay enough for many developers to afford top quality. When you pay more, they can afford to put in more. This is not rocket surgery. Game companies are there to make money, not lose it.

But you've missed my points, instead of ignoring the platform's weaknesses for developers, how do you leverage the PC so that it can be profitable enough to have the games you claim you want to pay for?

I know you want to ignore that question and just cry 'SHITTY PORTS WAAAAAAAA WAAAAAAA' again, which I'm sure is working out very well for you and is resulting in some very deep and complex games... or maybe you can shut the fuck up about it, and look at it like this: How can we get the companies that make the games we love the cash they need so they can make the games we love the way we love them?

No no, go ahead and cry and whine and piss and moan some more. It's not like that question's answer will save your platform of choice or anything. Just keep ignoring it and pretending your platform is the holy motherland of ubergaming and that it has absolutely no problems and that developers love its quirks and eccentricities and that ATI and NVIDIA aren't in some competition to make the others products look worse and that lack of standardization is good for gaming.

No no. Don't answer the important question. Just ignore it and it will go away!