I don't think anyone blames console gamers as much as they blame the consoles themselves. For console gamers to feel how we feel, imagine 90% of the games that release on your platform are now inferior ports for systems much less powerful.
Hence, imagine the majority of what you get are casual iPad games and to control them you simulate a touch pad by moving a dot around the screen with your thumb stick and press a button to simulate pressure. Or worse, imagine if the developer just slapped it on your console and expected you to buy a 3rd party touch pad just to play it, ignoring the fact everyone on your console of choice already has a controller.
Obviously the majority of PC gamers here work at many dev studios.
After all, you must have insider information if you know that PC is the lead platform, or console, or both, otherwise you wouldn't comment about multi-platform games.
This smug eliteness 'oh we get dumbed down things oh our games are so much better it's not your fault it's the devs you're all just too stupid to know any better' annoying the shit out of me.
The amount of fail in this post cannot be believed.
People are trying(sometimes failing) to have a discussion here. In order to have a discussion, you need to read what the opposition says too.
When you succeed in the latter then please, you are welcome to shower us in your opinion anytime.
While I've been using my PC more and more recently (I pretty much stopped using my PS3 altogether) because of the ease of finding cheaper games, the attitude of some PC gamers is just absurd. Read the Minecraft forums after the announcement of the 360 version of Minecraft if you want an example.
Still, for those who say it's too expensive to get a decent gaming computer, you're wrong. I literally bought a 200$ stock computer, and a nice 100$ graphics card, and it runs most games well on medium settings. Sure, it isn't the best but honestly I don't care about graphics anyway.
i got a PS3 LOVE it for the exclusive games and the blu-ray player. but PC is my main thingy thingy.. its a gamer rig.. (yes ive put alot of money in it to play games on the best of the best settings)
but i dont hate on consoles.. and as binvjoh said.. the ones that do are just amazingly loud about it :S
EDIT:
reading through some posts... OP you are never going anywhere :/ the good ye olde console vs pc war has broken out yet again... *sigh* alot of pc gamers, console gamers bitching and whining and "we got the better system" :/ im prob one of the few that didnt get bothered by the SONY hacking still play on my PS3 like nothing happend ^^.
-When someone makes a thread asking if they should buy an 360 or PS3 or a game on 360 or PS3 saying they can only afford one there's always a **** or two who responds with "PC." Oh I'm so sorry that wasn't one of the choices, you lose.
And whenever there are a person asking for advice for PC hardware some smug say just get an xbox its better.
-That weird sense of entitlement some PC gamers have with certain developers and titles. "No this is OUR game! You can't have it!" Or when they freak out on a developer for making a console port of a previously PC-exclusive title of theirs. "No you can't do this! We made you!" And don't get me started on those twats who are constantly going on about how FPS's "don't belong" on consoles.
It's not you can't have it. It's don't make it a console game with a barely working PC port.
-Oh you can land hundreds of head shots with your mouse eh? Good for you! I can also land hundreds of head shots, only I use a controller. Oh what's that you say? You played a console FPS once for 15 minutes and your aim sucked? Well aiming with a console requires a bit more skill than using a mouse where you can just point and click and takes a bit of time and practice to get good with it so I have no idea why your aim wasn't perfect the first and only time you used a controller. It must have been broken because there's no way it could have been your fault.
Fact mouse are more accurate that than an analog stick.
-Hey I can build an awesome PC that can play Crysis for just $500? Neat-o! Just one problem: I have less then that in my bank account and I need that money to pay for bills 'n' shit and unless I start making $15 an hour working 30+ hour weeks, it's going to stay that way. And before you say "Well you paid THOUSANDS for your consoles!" I bought both of them for under $200 years apart and I pretty much live off of $20 clearance games. I would love to have a good gaming PC because there are a ton of PC-exclusive games I'd like to play but I just can't afford it, which is something a lot of PC gamers have a really, really, really hard time accepting.
No most just hate that people keep stating that PC are way more expensive that they are in reality if you don't have $500 to spare fine. Just don't say it cost thousand of dollars and expect not to get corrected.
-When someone makes a thread asking if they should buy an 360 or PS3 or a game on 360 or PS3 saying they can only afford one there's always a **** or two who responds with "PC." Oh I'm so sorry that wasn't one of the choices, you lose.
So you dislike all PC gamers because a few a douche-bags?
Awesome!
-That weird sense of entitlement some PC gamers have with certain developers and titles. "No this is OUR game! You can't have it!" Or when they freak out on a developer for making a console port of a previously PC-exclusive title of theirs. "No you can't do this! We made you!" And don't get me started on those twats who are constantly going on about how FPS's "don't belong" on consoles.
That's not random entitlement. PC gamers would be fine with games going to consoles if the game didn't lose anything for the process.
But that's never the case.
When previously PC exclusive game goes to console it inevitably loses complexity, either control-wise, to accommodate a game-pad, or gameplay-wise, to accommodate what developers think of the average console player.
PC gamers have very good reason to hate their series moving to consoles. And it's not that they don't want console players to have it.
-Oh you can land hundreds of head shots with your mouse eh? Good for you! I can also land hundreds of head shots, only I use a controller. Oh what's that you say? You played a console FPS once for 15 minutes and your aim sucked? Well aiming with a console requires a bit more skill than using a mouse where you can just point and click and takes a bit of time and practice to get good with it so I have no idea why your aim wasn't perfect the first and only time you used a controller. It must have been broken because there's no way it could have been your fault.
As someone pointed out earlier, analogue sticks factually don't match the precision of a mouse. They're designed for ease of use, not maximum potential. It's much easier to use control sticks starting off, but you can never be as good as you could be with a mouse. Not where shooters are concerned.
There's a reason almost every console shooter comes with some level of auto-aim enabled as standard.
-Hey I can build an awesome PC that can play Crysis for just $500? Neat-o! Just one problem: I have less then that in my bank account and I need that money to pay for bills 'n' shit and unless I start making $15 an hour working 30+ hour weeks, it's going to stay that way. And before you say "Well you paid THOUSANDS for your consoles!" I bought both of them for under $200 years apart and I pretty much live off of $20 clearance games. I would love to have a good gaming PC because there are a ton of PC-exclusive games I'd like to play but I just can't afford it, which is something a lot of PC gamers have a really, really, really hard time accepting.
I will reply to the post quote-boxed below because you have been markedly more mature and respectful, unlike your last posts that included you resorting to, well, this:
"Put forth why people want 'dumbing down.' You'll notice the phrase itself is loaded with 'I AM BETTER THAN YOU AND THEY SHOULD ONLY LISTEN TO ME BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' connotations that do not help your case. Grow the fuck up, and present your argument like a man, not like a simpering fop."
You really think that the only reason people would prefer consoles to PC is that they aren't hardcore enough? What a load of condescending horseshit. That remark truly is the mark of a deluded fanboy.
No it really is a fact. Here is a short list of facts:
-Graphical power= better on PC, look at the benchmarks
-Controls= US military and law-enforcement virtual training programs have determined Mouse + keyboard are better than ANY other input device for aiming and movement in first/third person perspective
-Customisation= undeniably better on PC
-Online= dedicated servers are STANDARD on PC, anything less NOT ACCEPTED.
-Mods= you cannot mod 360/PS3 without being banned
-Games Price= steam sales? There are no better deals in the industry.
The dealing-with-bullshit factor is zero on consoles and huge on PCs.
Running a good console system requires hooking up an HDMI cable to the tv, and plugging it, and syncing a controller. Done.
Running a good computer system requires doing those things, then making sure your system is secure, keeping that maintained, dealing with manufacturers that may or may not have proper drivers, and software publishers that may, or may not, have your hardware configuration in question...
It's called the 'dealing with bullshit' factor. PCs have bullshit you HAVE to deal with. Consoles do not.
Remember that the next time you join a 'hate on DRM' thread. You're dealing with bullshit.
And some people have no patience for the bullshit.
All those facts (that you edited out, I edited back in) still stand and make PC games so superior to console games.
Does the make ME superior? No. But the games are.
Now, I don't know what if any experience you have with PC gaming but my experience - mainly with Steam - has have not had the bullshit to the extent you describe. Not a fraction. Steamworks is a breeze and YES it is DRM, but on balance I'd rather have this lightweight DRM than the DRM that games consoles use.
Yes games consoles have DRM. That is the reason Xbox 360 DVD discs only have 6.5GB capacity, the missing 2GB is DRM anti-piracy coding. Console have the most onerous DRM in the industry, the little there is on PC is not half as bad as on consoles that absolutely prescribe how I am allowed to play games, even what networks I can play them on.
I'm firstly going to say, thank you for giving an honest intellectual response.
One of the things with PCs tho is that DRM is eating up run time that it isn't in Consoles. It's obnoxious, but it's streamlined.
And for the few broken ports to PC - if the game REALLY is unplayable after truly exhausting all patches, drivers and tweaks, well that is not a reason to completely give up on ALL THE OTHER PC games that work perfectly.
Nor am I stating that all PC games don't work perfectly. But there are factors in maintaining a PC that you don't have to deal with on a console at all.
Many of these issues I don't have to worry about because I know what I am doing, but are HUGE issues for other PC users who aren't as technically sound. This produces a barrier of entry that gamers on other platforms don't have to deal with.
An example: In order to get my PSN stuff, someone has to hack into the main data base and steal it directly from them, usually an endevour that requires the cracking of a large corporation's security. It probably involved some inside job. All it takes for your PC info to be stolen is to watch the wrong porn. Bam. Keylogged.
Is that a problem for -me-? No. But it's a problem for the platform.
-360 = chews discs like billyo
-360 = one component breaks, need whole new machine (my model doesn't get extended warranty)
-360 = charges for online multiplayer with no guarantee of slot on dedicated server...
-360 = need to buy overpriced wifi adapter or drill holes for ethernet to even connect online
-360 = all the trolls and cheaters on Xbox Live. Where are the admins to moderate this?
-360 = woeful backup capability, a 16GB formatted drive? Microsoft is trolling.
-PS3 = Any aspect ratio outside 16:9 it crops or distorts
-PS3 = Month-long downtimes where my details get stolen
-PS3 = such lengthy and onerous updates before I can even even connect online
I can't argue those points, they are absolutely correct. I'm not saying those problems don't exist, I'm trying to put a perspective on the idea that PC gaming is better when it's different. It has its own issues.
But you can buy you way out of most of these problems. The thing is abandoning PC gives up even the hope of a high standard, that's what I have patience for because I really want it. I refuse to accept compromise.
I don't believe in abandoning the PC as a platform either. I disagree with whining about it on a platform which has financial challenges and rampant piracy. It requires greater effort to pirate for PC than for a console. That's not to say that consoles are -hard-... but there is a barrier to entry that PCs simply do not have. Can you access a website? You can be a pirate. Biggity bam.
My point is, and always has been, that complaining that your so-called best platform isn't getting the best when it cannot fund the best is not productive. What is productive is seeking solutions to these problems, and being ready to accept responsibility because many of the financial problems are user-generated.
I want the best and most of the time it is attainable.
I just think you had some frustrating experiences on PC and have let it get the better of you, you have become so afraid of that frustration you are willing to give up the high standard that you know only PC can offer.
I have some great experiences on PC too. I do so love my machine. But I'm being fair to say that some games are not worth the hassle when I can just pop them into the PS3.
Case in point: Sacred 2. Never could get it to install a single patch on my PC. Everything was broken, and the only advice I could get was to keep running the installer. On PS3? Done done and done. No hassle. Sure, it's got a marginally less effective interface, but whatever, I was playing it at all.
Is that going to stop me from playing Civ 5? Hell no. But that's because Civ 5 is a game that leverages the PC's strengths. PC is the best platform for it.
At the end of the day tho, I just want to play games. Sometimes, playing on the computer doesn't give me the amount of advantage to outweigh the simplicity I get from sticking it in my PS3. Other times, it does. Neither platform is perfect, and neither platform is bad.
Not at all. I just remain aware of the issues involved with both platforms. I am aware of the PS3's shortcomings. I am aware of its strengths.
I ain't going to give up. I won't lie to you, I have had some bad experiences getting some PC games to run, but I have had so many AMAZING experiences with PC I will not let that minority put me off.
I just want good gaming experiences, and I can accept market realities. Crying about it won't make things better, I'm sure you can agree. But addressing the problems and barriers to entry, and finding ways to smooth those over will make gaming better for everyone,
-Oh you can land hundreds of head shots with your mouse eh? Good for you! I can also land hundreds of head shots, only I use a controller. Oh what's that you say? You played a console FPS once for 15 minutes and your aim sucked? Well aiming with a console requires a bit more skill than using a mouse where you can just point and click and takes a bit of time and practice to get good with it so I have no idea why your aim wasn't perfect the first and only time you used a controller. It must have been broken because there's no way it could have been your fault.
Sorry, having a less accurate control scheme has nothing to do with "skill." I do just fine with both a mouse and controller. Wanna know the difference? Aim assist is turned on by default and often there is no option to turn it off on console games. It's not available at all on 99% of PC games.
That's simply a result of having 2000+ DPI tracking on a mouse, whereas a control stick will jump hundreds of pixels with even the slightest movement. It's like replacing your car's steering wheel with a pair of bowling balls and then suggesting that it takes more skill to drive that way. Maybe so, but that's a skill that there's really no use for and I shouldn't have to learn in the first place.
But again, I grew up playing both PC and console games, and I can do just fine with either method of control. Sometimes, like in fighting or racing games, a controller is even preferred. Which is why I have a USB 360 controller for use with my PC. Doesn't change the facts on which is more accurate, though.
Most games I play do have an aim assist option. Actually I think every FPS game I've played has an aim assist option. Most of the time it's already disabled.
And yes, a mouse is more accurate. You can hit a penny from a mile away with just your pistol. Hooray for you I am so very impressed. But it's not like that gap between a controller and a mouse is a gigantic fucking chasm which is what most people believe, you included it seems.
saying gamers are not to blame but only developers is stupid. If you console peasants wouldn't buy that crap nobody would make it.
personally i never really cared about all that platform war bullshit, especially since you xbox gamers don't just want to be left in peace, a lot of you were rather happy to stomp all over the ps3 community a few weeks back. I only ever take part in this for the lolz, people on every side of this get so riled up and it's just fun to watch them doing it.
Sorry but what you just said oozes ignorance. To build a PC capable of running almost every new game on decent settings (better than what any other console can, anyway) you don't need thousands of dollars.
Never said thousands. I said a thousand. This lab top that I'm using right now costs around 900 dollars, and it can barely run Minecraft on the highest settings.
If you focus entirely on gaming and gaming alone, you can build a decent gaming rig for a little over a thousand dollars US. I know multiple people who are purely PC gamers, and many of them have tried to set me up with a rig of my own.
They've all come back to me with the same price range. 950-1250$. I've looked into it extensively. The lowest I found on my own would have gotten me about 1100$
That range you told me is just about right, but usually around 250-350$ of that sum goes to the your monitor/screen of choice, which you have to spend for consoles as well. And using a laptop as comparison doesn't make sense, because price/performance ratio of laptops is really different than PC's.
Tdc2182 said:
Fenix7 said:
Anyway there's a sense of gratification most PC gamers get from being able to tinker with the game settings resulting in being able to play games your hardware technically shouldn't support, but you probably don't understand what it means.
I'm confused. If what I just said a fine example of PC Elitism... how is it a bad thing? Am I not allowed to enjoy being a little more involved with the running-games process now? Does caring about tweaking PC settings in order to get the best out of a game turn you into a "PC Elitist" (which, to the best of my knowledge) is used as an insult and is a completely negative adjective?
Tdc2182 said:
And for the most part, that wasn't that I was talking about. It's 6 in the morning and I haven't gone to bed, so I'm gonna give the spark notes.
I was referring to how making games purely for PC is difficult, because PCs have a much broader scale of performance developers have to adapt their games for. It doesn't matter if you can play Crysis at the highest settings, you are going to have games that you can't run smoothly because a game wasn't designed with you in mind.
On the other hand, when developing games for consoles, developers are limited by the consoles power, so one could argue that making games for consoles is equally difficult.
And PC games usually come with patches and user-made mods that fix incompatibilities and the like.
Tdc2182 said:
Fenix7 said:
Ironic that you're posting in a thread that is basically PC hate. Which, as mentioned many times in this thread, is not the first thread of this kind in these forums.
The thread didn't start like that, but it quickly turned into PC gamers hate. Just read the last pages.
Tdc2182 said:
Fenix7 said:
Also, there are plenty of people on the internet that use any chance they get to bash/make fun of PC gamers. Just head to any gaming site where people can comment on posts, whenever something along the lines of "X game will not come out on PC" is posted, many "lol PC gaming" and such posts will appear in a matter of minutes.
Anyways. You seem to talk a lot about console gaming being... "Casual". You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouKeepUsingThatWord]
On that note, let's look at the top selling/profitable PC games.
-The Sims
-The Sims 2
--The Sims 2: Pets
--The Sims 2: Seasons
-World of Warcraft
--Burning Crusade
--Wrath of the Lich King
--Cataclysm
*Starcraft
The list is, reliably, topped by The Sims and World of Warcraft. Some other games that are INCREDIBLY profitable for almost no investment include things such as anything produced by Zynga.
I'd also like to point out that there [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_mario_bros_1] are [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Hunter_3] some [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathsmiles] games [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest_9] that [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Did_I_Do_to_Deserve_This,_My_Lord%3F] are [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgaea_4] simply [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirby_superstar] better [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_5] non-PC [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berzerk].
Most of them, I couldn't even IMAGINE playing using a keyboard & mouse. It just sounds that tedious, due to the inherit limitations of the keyboard.
But you can buy a console + games which are more expensive than PC games + extra controllers if you want to play with friends + monthly sub for Xbox live?
Also, reported for being a silly goose and telling people they have Aspergers.
You're probably considered "over-entitled" too though that term has lost all meaning on game forums at this point. Most of the people who use it, don't know what it means.
I don?t think a game being on the console dumbs it down. As someone who was a poor gamer most of his life, I used to have to choose between console and pc. Now I can have both and while the console used to have the benefit of being cheaper and less complicated, it can?t really boast that anymore, can it? The hardware is pretty expensive and there are sometimes extra fees and proprietary hardware involved.
So I can understand why MS wants to move the pc gamers over to the 360 (more people to pay fees and buy proprietary hardware) but they need to understand that we no longer see any benefit. If they want us to pay the cost of a pc, we should get the benefit too.
And gamers (on consoles and pcs) have to understand that this is all just about big corporations trying to make money off of you. They don?t actually care about you or anything like that, so why fly their standard. Play what ever you want on what?s cheapest or most convenient for you.
I like video games. It doesn't matter which platform I play them on. Some people get really vehement about their platform, but still some are quite civil about it. If it really bothers you, you can just ignore them, because you aren't gonna change their attitude.
First of all, I would like to apologise for this late entrance to this awesome flamefest of a thread. Second, I am going to test a theory of mine ie. kill it with fire.
Racecarlock said:
I have been a member of the escapist since last year, and there's one thing that keeps popping up that is really really annoying. Almost every PC gaming thread I go on to is filled with smug pricks who act as though their choice of platform makes them better than anyone else.
It's hard not to come across as smug when you know you are right. The fact that we come across as pricks to you only proves your delusion. The superiority of the PC as a gaming machine is obviously not up for discussion; its an established fact.
You would undoubtedly hate it if console gamers were constantly blaming PC gamers for more complicated games or the PCification of console games.
Please do, and look at everyone around fall to their knees in uncontrolled laughter at your mad mockery of the truth that is, that the keyboard+mouse combo is the awesomest.
So why the fuck should we have to take it from you?
Well, when you put your opinion on a public discussion board like this, you have to, right? If not, Dr Joos prescribes you to harden the f*ck up. *hands tissue*
And I have no problem with you if you just love the PC to the exclusion of other gaming platforms, that's your choice. It's only when you lord that choice around and act like you're somehow a better person because you only play on PC.
Terribly sorry if you got this wrong too. We don't act, we are. However, it is possible to make amends and join the uber-gamers of the future. You don't even have to give up your coveted gamepad, since like everything else, its compatible with PC's. For a mere fraction of your yearly salary you can experience Assassins Creed (or whatever your feeble console mind can fathom) in true HD.
Well, you could have just turned the other cheek, but oh no, "I'm going to post an angry post online!!!" You could of course just ignore this entire thread from this point on and continue to game on. Sadly, it will never be the same, since the feeling of inferiority to the PC gamer master race that made you write this post to begin with will continue to gnaw on your soul and eventually eat you up. A sad day surely, but inevitable, I'm afraid.
Edit: Some examples of this crap. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.259536-PC-Gaming-Master-Race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290579-Whats-with-PC-gamers-being-the-master-race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.290144-Zero-Punctuation-The-Witcher-2-Assassins-of-Kings
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290163-Skyrim-to-be-a-console-port-which-shouldnt-be-too-hard
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