A realistic discussion of Pirates vs. Ninjas

[Fbuh]

I started this, becasue I am sick and tired of the whole pirates vs. ninjas thing. Even today I still find stuff about it. So this is to appropriately put down any more hypothetical nautical/asian battles.

Pirates that we think of originated around the 1600s, when globalization first started to occur. Interestingly enough, a lot of the more infamous pirates (such as Blackbeard) started out as privateers, government funded pirates hired to disrupt shipping of foreign trade. Your cliche pirates really got big around the 1700s, with trading among the Americas, India, and China. They gained further fame through movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean, though most of the cliches in the film were not even true. Basically, pirates were vicious and cruel, and killed, raped, and plundered. They were not the free, fun loving bunch of misfits misunderstood by common society as depicted in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Now on to ninjas. Ninjas start much further back, during medieval feudal Japan. I know considerably less about ninjas than I do pirates, but I know that they were not magic. Often, they were simple peasant farmers fed up with their government. Ninjas also did not wear black, as black fabric would have been commodity too precious for a commoner. Most ninjas actually wore dark reds or blues. However, ninjas did employ stealth, martial arts, and a number of chemical tricks to confuse their opponents. For instance, hallucinatory powders thrown into the face of an opponent could make them believe that they were seeing double, as if the the ninja had mystical cloning techniques (familiar?).

However, the biggest issue here is time and place. Two different types of people from opposite sides of the world from different times could not fight. You might as well ask "Who would win, an Aztec Soldier or a Cossack Soldier?". However, if time travel ever becomes possible, I would pay to see such a fight between a pirate and ninja, but for now, let us safely assume that the two do not exist within the same time frames, and so could not battle without that technology.

Now that you've seen my thoughts, what are yours? Simply put, do you agree, disagree, have a different interpretation, or just don't care?

EDIT: Changed the spelling of Cassock to Cossack, as I flarped up with that bit of spelling

 

[RetiarySword]

Ohh! This seems like a perfect time to show people this picture I made!!

What do you think?

 

[Gladion]

Okay, just one thing: you've been taking this way too seriously. I'm not pro this discussion, because everyone knows pirates would kick ninjas' asses anytime (sorry, Pistols>Shuriken), but now we've come to a level on which you want to prove it scientifically.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

I think the popularity came from the movies and games based upon them. People saw (Or played) these things, became hooked on them, and started debating which were better. This then spread round and here we are now. As Yahtzee put it:

"It is my observation that zombies are second only to pirates, ninjas and monkeys in the list of things nerds like and need to shut the fuck up about. They watch movies about them..."

Oh, and also, they're callled "Cossacks" not "Cassocks".

However, it is a very light hearted debate anyway, what's the point of taking it seriously? It's like debating between Daleks and Cybermen in Doctor Who.

Ohh! This seems like a perfect time to show people this picture I made!!

What do you think?

Nice picture.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

However, it is a very light hearted debate anyway, what's the point of taking it seriously? It's like debating between Daleks and Cybermen in Doctor Who.

Daleks would win, clearly.

I also say Pirates would beat ninjas, they've got more booze in them to stop the pain and keep going.

 

[zauxz]

I believe ninjas were created when a band of samurai refused to foollow the emperrors orders, and started hiding in the forests simply for survival.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Because of their use of Fire Arms and the greater prevalence of weapons, I would say Pirates...

Remember that Japan does not have as much Iron as Europe and hence Ninja's, for the most part, had to rely on Martial Arts, Chemicals and Stealth due to the fact that a sword would be much more valuable in an iron deficient nation.

 

[Gooble]

Pirates would be ninjas easily. Even if a ninja did get close enough to attack with his sword without getting shot, pirates were fearsome fighters and would probably win through sheer strength of will.

 

[TheDean]

Ninjas win because they are full of win

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Ninjas were far better spies than assassins. They wore street clothes (well, what were street clothes at the time) - not black "I'm a ninja" robes. They were armed with farming equipment, because only samurai were allowed to have swords. They also had black powder and tear gas stuffed in eggshells. The ninjas we're familiar with are stage ninjas who wore black because black was the clothing that stage workers wore - it was a cue that said "I'm invisible" to the audience.

I think there's only been one confirmed kill by a "ninja" and a whole bunch of failed attempts. Pirates on the other hand, rape, murder and pillage was in their job description. Pirates versus ninjas? The pirates'ed rape them to death, eat their flesh, and sew their skins into their clothing. And, if they're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.

But if we're talking about fictional ninjas, all it takes is one.

 

[Zombie_Fish]

However, it is a very light hearted debate anyway, what's the point of taking it seriously? It's like debating between Daleks and Cybermen in Doctor Who.

Daleks would win, clearly.

I also say Pirates would beat ninjas, they've got more booze in them to stop the pain and keep going.

Course daleks would win, BBC proved that with an epic battle.

 

[Colonel Rick]

Logically speaking the Ninja would never be seen by the Pirates, the Pirates would never know they were fighting as their on ship food supply starts making them sick from poison.

But in an open fight, where Pirates have a clear advantage they would win.

So if you take a Ninja out of their natural environment and put them on the Pirates' playing field then bad things happen to the Ninja, but I doubt a Pirate could sneak aroud quite like a Ninja can, so I'll stick with my Castle Crashers variant of the Pinja.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Pirates are still just simple thieves on the sea, nothing more than that. Ninja's however, are highly trained assassin'ss (yes spies for the most part, but they trained in craploads of stuff). Pirates are nothing, yes they have their flintlock pistols, but they have no training, no real skill except brute power. Does anyone really think a pirate could win against ninjitsu? Heck, a ninja would just kill a pirate in it's sleep, wouldn't even think of appearing and making his move if he's not sure that he has the upper hand. Pirates stand no chance, they're just feeble looters. Even in close combat a ninja would beat a pirate without a lot of effort. A pirate would just rush in blindly with his sword, maybe even swing his (highly innacurate and unreliable) pistol. And obviously, ninjitsu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple half-drunken brawling.

 

[Lullabye]

Logically speaking the Ninja would never be seen by the Pirates, the Pirates would never know they were fighting as their on ship food supply starts making them sick from poison.

But in an open fight, where Pirates have a clear advantage they would win.

So if you take a Ninja out of their natural environment and put them on the Pirates' playing field then bad things happen to the Ninja, but I doubt a Pirate could sneak aroud quite like a Ninja can, so I'll stick with my Castle Crashers variant of the Pinja.

exactly. its all about the environment.
oh and

(sorry, Pistols>Shuriken

one shot pistols that take forever to reload beats shuriken that are limited by only how many you can carry and how good your aim is? im sorry but pistols<shuriken
and as for

"Who would win, an Aztec Soldier or a Cassock Soldier?".quote]
aztec soldier. cause the face paint would scare anybody shitless

and the whole ninjas vs pirates is not meant to be taken seriously. but even if it were it wouldn't make a difference.
its like the alien vs robots debate that was popular in the 90's

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Aren't shuriken for distraction, not kills? "Realistically," we'd be talking cutlasses versus farm sickles. I think the pirates would have the advantage.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Given that the question is, as has been pointed out, really nothing more than "what would happen if these two groups, who existed in different times and places and would never logically or reasonably come into conflict with one another, somehow actually happened to fight", I guess I'll just offer my perspective.

First, Pirates by and large were not terribly skilled martial combatants - they were often simply more experienced. Essentially they used techniques of brutal, short duration engagements in order to convince the opposition to surrender and rarely were in any position to actually engage in a stand-up fight against a prepared and well armed opponent. Ninja, on the other hand are considered by myth to be highly skilled close quarters combatants, but given the danger of their trade it seems unlikely that many ninja survived long enough to become terribly experienced. Thus, at the outset you have technical skill leveled against experience, and seems to be a draw.

Then we can move on to armaments. Ninja seemingly favored close combat weapons, and while they may have possessed small crossbows or shiruken, it would seem that most of their killing potential comes from their sword. Pirates on the other hand seemed to favor using short ranged (but effective) firearms as much as they favored the sword - and this goes back to the concept of brutal, short duration attacks (and experience). It takes a fair degree of skill to best a man with a sword, but even the swiftest and craftiest swordsman is no match for a well aimed shot. In terms of weaponry, it seems that in general the battle favors the pirate if the engagement begins with both combatants aware of the conflict and are outside of immediate sword range, but likely shifts in favor of the ninja as the range closes. Again, this is essentially a draw.

Finally we come to the circumstances of battle. Both groups rely to a degree on the element of surprise to succeed and therefore there will be any number of situations that favor one over the other. Did the ninja board the pirate vessel in an attempt to assassinate the captain? If so, he must contend with an entire ship's worth of pirates, and no matter how skilled the ninja, the pirates will inevitably win that battle. Perhaps the battle takes place on land, where the ninja is stalking pirates on shore leave - fighting seperated and hopefully drunken pirates almost certainly favors the ninja. Again, the balance sheet appears to be about even.

That said, as a general rule it must be considered that pirates will likely outnumber the ninja, and the pirates possess superior weaponry for outside of sword range close quarters combat. These two factors alone seem to sway the entire argument in favor of the pirates. There may be any number of scenarios where the ninja's will win, but the general totality of probable circumstance seems to favor the pirates.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Aren't shuriken for distraction, not kills? "Realistically," we'd be talking cutlasses versus farm sickles. I think the pirates would have the advantage.

This is a point that always comes up - the Shuriken. While they are perfectly capable of being lethal implements, especially over the long term the shuriken is, in the near term, no better than a small knife at causing a wound. As such, there are few ways in which even a well thrown shiruken will result in a quick kill (though, it may be capable of piercing the head, which is a difficult target for any weapon). Pistols on the other hand, while having a much longer reload time are fully capable of killing or incapacitating in a single shot. Having been stabbed before, I can attest to the fact that a stab to a limb, while painful, probably won't prevent the use of a limb. Conversely, a gun shot that shatters bones and removes enormous hunks of flesh are far more effective at rapidly crippling a target.

In short, there is a REASON why the firearm became the staple weapon of the world. It took quite awhile before a skilled marksman could reasonably fire more shots in a minute than a skilled archer, but the fantastically increased lethality of the weapon (and it's relative ease of use) catapulted the firearm to the forefront of weapon technology. Yes, the shiruken can deliver more attacks over a given span of time, but the pistol will, in all likelyhood, only require one shot to do it's job. The shiruken, even if poisoned, will likely take many attacks to incapacitate the target significantly.

 

[Parallel Streaks]

We're talking about real Ninjas here, peasants with sickles and a basic comprehension of martial arts, correct? Do you know how hard it would have been for a Ninja to get ahold of ACTUAL weaponry? Even if someone did manage it, he'd be caught eventually and find out that one good sword versus a squad of pissed-off Samurai never comes out in favour of the underdog, despite what movies will tell you. And the pirates would probably possess superior weapons for CLOSE RANGE combat as well, seeing as they were known to attack ships delivering weaponry and loot the damn things.

 

[1ronJ4m]

Yup. What about throwing knives? Ninjas used them if they did use the shuriken, but I'm pretty sure that some more stylish pirates would've also had some up their sleeve.
If ninjas were assassins, they wouldn't go close-combat- they'd just stab u in the back.
Same for a pirate, if he had the chance.
In a close-combat fight, the Samurai would rape both the ninja and the pirate, cuz he's got a nice katana and some mad skillz.
So, yeah, the Marine would win.

 

[Cowabungaa]

We're talking about real Ninjas here, peasants with sickles and a basic comprehension of martial arts, correct? Do you know how hard it would have been for a Ninja to get ahold of ACTUAL weaponry? Even if someone did manage it, he'd be caught eventually and find out that one good sword versus a squad of pissed-off Samurai never comes out in favour of the underdog, despite what movies will tell you. And the pirates would probably possess superior weapons for CLOSE RANGE combat as well, seeing as they were known to attack ships delivering weaponry and loot the damn things.

Really? Do pirates possess such good weaponry? Rusty cutlaces and sómetimes a flintlock pistol (those things are damn expensive, only high ranking officers and captains on a pirate ship would have those, probably). Yes real ninja had simple weaponry, but they trained with it, learned how to use it, were experts. Pirates are not. While pirates may have better weapons, ninja's have superior technique. You can have the most advanced gun in the world, but if you don't know where the trigger is it's useless.

Pirates were feared for their shock techniques, that's how they subdued merchant ships; with a lot of boom and bang, shock and awe. That doesn't work on a ninja.