A realistic discussion of Pirates vs. Ninjas

[roastbeefy]

that hallucinogenic powder thing is pretty cool.

 

[timmytom1]

I started this, becasue I am sick and tired of the whole pirates vs. ninjas thing. Even today I still find stuff about it. So this is to appropriately put down any more hypothetical nautical/asian battles.

Pirates that we think of originated around the 1600s, when globalization first started to occur. Interestingly enough, a lot of the more infamous pirates (such as Blackbeard) started out as privateers, government funded pirates hired to disrupt shipping of foreign trade. Your cliche pirates really got big around the 1700s, with trading among the Americas, India, and China. They gained further fame through movies such as Pirates of the Caribbean, though most of the cliches in the film were not even true. Basically, pirates were vicious and cruel, and killed, raped, and plundered. They were not the free, fun loving bunch of misfits misunderstood by common society as depicted in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Now on to ninjas. Ninjas start much further back, during medieval feudal Japan. I know considerably less about ninjas than I do pirates, but I know that they were not magic. Often, they were simple peasant farmers fed up with their government. Ninjas also did not wear black, as black fabric would have been commodity too precious for a commoner. Most ninjas actually wore dark reds or blues. However, ninjas did employ stealth, martial arts, and a number of chemical tricks to confuse their opponents. For instance, hallucinatory powders thrown into the face of an opponent could make them believe that they were seeing double, as if the the ninja had mystical cloning techniques (familiar?).

However, the biggest issue here is time and place. Two different types of people from opposite sides of the world from different times could not fight. You might as well ask "Who would win, an Aztec Soldier or a Cassock Soldier?". However, if time travel ever becomes possible, I would pay to see such a fight between a pirate and ninja, but for now, let us safely assume that the two do not exist within the same time frames, and so could not battle without that technology.

Now that you've seen my thoughts, what are yours? Simply put, do you agree, disagree, have a different interpretation, or just don't care?

I presume Cassok=Cossak?
and for the record , pirates had guns,ninja`s did not therefore pirates win

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Yeah serenity reference! OT; depends where the fight took place cause i a japaneese peasent guise would work in peseasnt villages. If they fought anywhere where the ninja's surprise and stealth were lost the pirates would win.

Yeah, but what would stop the pirates from just raping and pillaging the whole village? Insurgency only works if your enemy is not trying to raze the whole area to the ground.

 

[iwinatlife]

Ok lets think about the nature of the two groups.

Ninjas: Peasants and farmers trained to be assassins and to use stealth to kill single targets preferably at night while the target is sleeping. Not trained to fight in a group or against one. not "masters of all weapons" peasants with tools to kill singl targets such as knives and poison.

Pirates: Brutal thieves roaming the sea tricking and ruthlessly attack various lightly guarded merchant vessels and small towns. Not the greatest fighters but still needed to know how to fight multiple people at least half competently to maintain their hold on their ill-gotten gains. used swords and pistols primarily. occasionally sniped from ship to ship with rifles.

Now lets say a new pirate versus a newly recruited ninja fought the pirate would be rather quickly dead because he either stabbed himself or the ninja did.

However if we have an experienced ninja versus a pirate captain the pirate has the advantage because to maintain position as captain he has to maintain his rule against a whole group of backstabbing ruthless thugs while and experienced ninja DOESN'T FIGHT. a good ninja kills before his target has any idea what is happening so will lose in a open fight.

 

[Spacelord]

(snip) Having been stabbed before, I can attest to the fact that a stab to a limb, while painful, probably won't prevent the use of a limb. (snip)

... Wait, what the fuck?

 

[ElephantGuts]

Pirates have ships and various gunpowder weapons. Clearly they would have the advantage in a military engagement.

Besides that pirates are way cooler than ninjas.

Actually, ninjas adapted to the use of gunpowder-based weaponry as well. However, I am forced to admit that, in any sea-based confrontation, pirates would win hands down. In a land-based confrontation, held on ground that the ninjas chose and if the two forces were of equal strength the ninjas would probably get the better of the pirates. The pirates' weaponry was generally poor quality steel, unless the were quite successful and/or lucky, and the pistols at the time took so long to reload that they were practically one shot only in any particular battle. The ninjas used very high quality blades, which (mythbusters or no mythbusters) could probably shatter a cutlass with a well placed blow. The ninja were also masters of the theatrical, they supposedly used smoke bombs to cover their movements and various other distraction techniques. In a battle on their own terms, ninjas would win, purely because the pirate tactics were created for battles at sea and on the confined decks of ships, not for the guerilla-style warfare waged by the ninja clans.

Perhaps, perhaps. However, your argument becomes invalid in the face of the pirates' superior awesomeness.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Ninjas were extremely well-trained, silent assassins from the East who were taught to use their blades until they became as second-nature as using their hands, whereas pirates were uncouth ruffians from the west, or south, depending on which direction you're heading in at the time, who were usually drunk and possessed rudimentary pistol training and some hand-to-hand combat skills but little else.

Ninjas, back in the day, were the hitmen of the Orient. A ninja could kill an entire room of sleeping men without them ever knowing he was there. A ninja could sneak on board a ship of pirates and slit all of their throats in their sleep. If forced into melee or pistol combat, ninjas would obviously possess ALL of the combat skills of the pirates if not MORE, so running around drunk saying "YARR, I'm a pirate" does not make you necessarily cooler than the Oriental hitmen who defined what it is to be awesome decades before pirates were really around!

[/ends fanboy rant]

[nutshell synopsis]Ninja were obviously far better trained, pirates are and were inferior IMHO.[/nutshell synopsis]

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Daleks would win, clearly.

YOU ARE SUPERIOR IN BEING EXTERMINATED!

Ninjas beat Pirates for four simple reasons.
1. Ninjas live in Japan. Any foreigners were killed.
2. Ninjas are mammals.
3. Ninjas fight ALL the time.
4. The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

 

[Deleric]

Pirates are basically just really, really dirty Swordsman, with boats. Ninjas work in the dark, they're swift and they get the job done quickly. Pirates have no place to be contested with ninjas or any other like, because they're just humans with enough diversity to be separated from, say, Spies.

 

[similar.squirrel]

Ninjas were far too agile to be beaten in close-combat by pirates.
Also, pistols from that era took an age to reload and very highly inaccurate at best. That's if they didn't explode or get waterlogged somehow.

 

[GodsOneMistake]

A ninja would sneak into the crew and kill everyone in their sleep Ninja Wins

 

[Matronadena]

actually pirates AND ninja both had time together when the dutch, and Portuguese sailed to Japan looking to open trade/ force mass conversion to Christianity etc. several Shogun in that early history loved the European sailors, as they brought with them new weapons " like the flint lock" but over the centuries the influx of traders, and many who " questionably" were pirating off the sea of japan, began to effect the status-quo. There are some reports that Daimyo who's towns/villages were suffering due to the trade often contracted ninja to " dispose" of some merchants..rather than spark the retaliation from the east indie company, or the shogun by using samurai.

by the late 16th-17th century the Ninja had evolved past rebelling farmers...though YES they dressed as a commoner, posed as grounds keepers, or prostitutes (females) and used weapons forged of farm tools and such, the traditions they held had become more streamlined, and they were better trained, better skilled, and even better funded.

So the concept of " realistic, non modern mythos" of pirates VS ninja had it's place...

To be realistic about skills...one does need to consider one thing.

Merchants/sailors/pirates who made the trip to east Asia normally were NOT in the best of health after a long voyage...they were heavily out of their element and almost NEVER allowed to carry weapons greater than a knife off the docks. The individuals were sometimes ex-navy but rarely trained to a heavy extent...even most Pirates who may have had a military background rarely were ones of any rank " though you had the few who had come from a wealthy enough family to have bought in officership"

European soldiers were more conditioned to fighting ship to ship, or in large ranks, Should a ninja be sent to take care of a rowdy European it was done still with stealth, and no more than 2 or 3 individuals...leaving the target ill prepared.

Ninja did NOT fight in large scale battles, they were the classic assassin...get in, make the kill, escape...it was all hit and run

the surikin, an iconic weapon of a ninja was NOT designed as a killing weapon...it was a distraction weapon, designed to inflict small annoying wounds to keep an opponent back and out of range while the assassin made their escape.
but were still looking at someone trained to get in close, fast, and catch someone totally off guard, against someone trained to fight on a ship, or in ranks against enemies in ranks...

the outcome of a conflict has so many variants nobody can honestly give a clear victory over another, as it boils down to too many variables, this can be said about ANY conflict. Size, and weapons and even training sometimes mean nothing with the wrong tactics.

 

[RobbPWNS]

Screw this, Zombies would kill 'em both, and you know it! Besides, how can you kill what isn't dead?

 

[Fbuh]

You sir, have a stick up your ass.

It's not that I have a stick in my ass, its' just that I was interested in what others think. Really, I was looking for well thought out arguments, and there a a good number of them here. I was in no way trying to start a war. It's sort of a hobby of mine to see how many people I can get going in a certain conversational direction. I've derailed entire class sessions doing this.

Personally, I like both pirates and ninjas equally, as they represent two different aspects of my personality: Pirates as doing whatever the hell they want, and ninjas as trained professionals with a bit of honor

 

[jkeeling]

technically speaking, ninjas could be considdered as a form of pirate. Vagabond that went against the law of the land while pirate did the same on the seas.
when you think about it the more accurate question is "who would win in a fight: sailing pirates or sneaky pirates?"

 

[Masterthief]

Pirates have ships and various gunpowder weapons. Clearly they would have the advantage in a military engagement.

Besides that pirates are way cooler than ninjas.

Actually, ninjas adapted to the use of gunpowder-based weaponry as well. However, I am forced to admit that, in any sea-based confrontation, pirates would win hands down. In a land-based confrontation, held on ground that the ninjas chose and if the two forces were of equal strength the ninjas would probably get the better of the pirates. The pirates' weaponry was generally poor quality steel, unless the were quite successful and/or lucky, and the pistols at the time took so long to reload that they were practically one shot only in any particular battle. The ninjas used very high quality blades, which (mythbusters or no mythbusters) could probably shatter a cutlass with a well placed blow. The ninja were also masters of the theatrical, they supposedly used smoke bombs to cover their movements and various other distraction techniques. In a battle on their own terms, ninjas would win, purely because the pirate tactics were created for battles at sea and on the confined decks of ships, not for the guerilla-style warfare waged by the ninja clans.

Perhaps, perhaps. However, your argument becomes invalid in the face of the pirates' superior awesomeness.

Yes, but you must remember that this fact is offset by the Ninjas' 1337 ninja skilzz, which make them, once again, superior in both awesomeness and military prowess

 

[ElephantGuts]

Pirates have ships and various gunpowder weapons. Clearly they would have the advantage in a military engagement.

Besides that pirates are way cooler than ninjas.

Actually, ninjas adapted to the use of gunpowder-based weaponry as well. However, I am forced to admit that, in any sea-based confrontation, pirates would win hands down. In a land-based confrontation, held on ground that the ninjas chose and if the two forces were of equal strength the ninjas would probably get the better of the pirates. The pirates' weaponry was generally poor quality steel, unless the were quite successful and/or lucky, and the pistols at the time took so long to reload that they were practically one shot only in any particular battle. The ninjas used very high quality blades, which (mythbusters or no mythbusters) could probably shatter a cutlass with a well placed blow. The ninja were also masters of the theatrical, they supposedly used smoke bombs to cover their movements and various other distraction techniques. In a battle on their own terms, ninjas would win, purely because the pirate tactics were created for battles at sea and on the confined decks of ships, not for the guerilla-style warfare waged by the ninja clans.

Perhaps, perhaps. However, your argument becomes invalid in the face of the pirates' superior awesomeness.

Yes, but you must remember that this fact is offset by the Ninjas' 1337 ninja skilzz, which make them, once again, superior in both awesomeness and military prowess

We'll see who's 1337 when the Pirates are sleeping in giant piles of doubloons and treasure, being blown hugged by wenches, and dying of scurvy getting drunk off their asses on rum, while your ninjas are...being poor and living in huts or something.