A response to some arguments in anita sarkeesians interview.

[GundamSentinel]

Yeah, 'twas a good read, thanks for sharing.

Not gonna be watching her videos. We definitely need something like them, but from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced that we really need to adress gender in games, but this article and her previous vids sure show why she shouldn't be the one to do it. She doesn't know what she's talking about and seems incapable of showing both sides of the argument. Her Lego vid was just embarrassing to watch.

 

[Phasmal]

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced that we really need to adress gender in games, but this article and her previous vids sure show why she shouldn't be the one to do it.

Nah, it's totes chill to be a lady gamer right now. =P
(Seriously how could anyone think this community doesnt have sexism problems?)
Tbh, the community pisses me off more than the industry. The industry just wants to make money from tittays. The community is the place with the dudes with real hate.

 

[Jdb]

Before I develop on that, let's get to the most relevant question in this whole idea of the annotations to this video. Are you, a hypothetical gamer who has not yet purchased Bayonetta, expected to know anything about the lore of the game's writing prior to seeing the advertisements for it? Yes or no.

Yes. I expect myself to do research prior to making decisions. I like being an informed consumer.

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Nice article it really highlights the problems I have with this Tropes vs Woman. I went and looked at some of Anita's videos after hearing about the kickstarter, and to me she mostly takes certain aspects of characters that could be considered sexist and highlights them out of context with the rest of the character.

Yes there are problems with how females how presented in games that need addressing. However my concern is that Anita is not the person who should do it.

 

[WanderingFool]

Hmm, a rather good read. I most likely wont bother with watching sarkeesians videos, but I will be interested in finding out what exactly she puts in there.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I am not sure I found his rebuttals all that great to be honest. Sarkeesian argues that Zia is a non-developed character and the response is basically "but she's capable and not dressed like a slut!". Then his rebuttal to her Kat argument is "Maybe she likes to dress up... And she's still a strong female character!", which is the weakest argument ever since it can be used to justify any form of horrible character design ("In Uncharted 4 Drake will run around in only a thong since he likes to dress down when on the beach") by virtue of "this fictional character wants it".

You are missing the point of his article. It isn't about talking about the female character but Anita's actual lack of understanding and suspension of disbelief in the games she complains about. Just as a note I never played Bastion, Gravity Rush or Assassins Creed.

I mean if there is one thing I know and it is said a lot in politics the only two types of things you remember are the things you hate the things you love. If she really did love Bastion as a game wouldn't she actually of taken the time to remember Zia the female character she says she liked?

Or how in a video game about a character who has complete control of gravity to the point that she can control the speed of her descent complain that she shouldn't be wearing high heels. So in essence she would rather have reality supersede the actual character design and the actual point of the game in which a character has complete control of gravity be more dominate all for the reason that it wouldn't hurt that characters feet. To which it wouldn't because the character would be able to use gravity and decrease her weight to actually make the impact of touching the ground become a non-issue.

That's one of the main problems in most if not all of her videos. A lack of research and a clear bias where her opinion becomes more important than actually giving the context. Heck after reading her actual Master's thesis it is the same thing. It is more about what she wants and how everything in the media should be chained down by realism instead of actually having directors, writers, developers actually expressing their ideas and free will into their art.

I am quite sure the point of the article was to put Sarkeesian's statements in a different light and offer a second opinion on the things she talked about, but I digress.

The thing is that you can love a game and still be critical of it, just like you can love any piece of media/art/culture or whatever and be critical. I can admit to loving Prometheus and still question how poorly it dealt with the aftermath of the "pregnancy scene" and actually have a discussion purely about that segment of the film without talking about the other (much greater) parts. That's not a sign of me hating the movie, that's a sign of me being able to see the individul parts.

Personally I don't find Sarkeesian to seem either out of the loop or biased, the latter especially is kind of the nature of the beast however. On the other hand we also know that the gaming industry and hobby are having a lot of problems with women: how to integrate them, how to represent them fairly etc. etc.. To point out how game designers are making bad or strang decisions when it comes to how to portray women seems like a pretty important part of overcoming these problems however.

As a final note: Have you tried doing anything besides standing still or walking in high heels? It is at best painful and at worst impossible. High heels are shoes you choose when you want to look good, not when you might end up having to fight for your life.

 

[Jdb]

Yes. I expect myself to do research prior to making decisions. I like being an informed consumer.

That's not what I asked. I don't care what you expect of yourself. I'm asking what is expected of this hypothetical average consumer.

Before I develop on that, let's get to the most relevant question in this whole idea of the annotations to this video. Are you, a hypothetical gamer who has not yet purchased Bayonetta, expected to know anything about the lore of the game's writing prior to seeing the advertisements for it? Yes or no.

"You" sure sounds like you're asking me. And I am an average consumer. And you don't care what I think? "I want an answer. No, not that one!" Ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. I don't talk to cherry pickers.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Personally, I'm not entirely convinced that we really need to adress gender in games, but this article and her previous vids sure show why she shouldn't be the one to do it.

Nah, it's totes chill to be a lady gamer right now. =P
(Seriously how could anyone think this community doesnt have sexism problems?)
Tbh, the community pisses me off more than the industry. The industry just wants to make money from tittays. The community is the place with the dudes with real hate.

That's my point exactly. Saying female characters aren't a fair representation of women is beside the point when the community is a far bigger problem.

The industry, and with it, game design, aren't doing anything wrong. When assessing female characters in gaming, the problem is more the way women like Sarkeesian want to be represented rather than the way female characters are actually represented.

Sexism in the community is a far bigger issue to address. What Sarkeesian is doing is just plain useless, especially because she seems unable to make a good point about it without being biased.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

I wish I was born with lady parts. I want free money, too! The victim card is also handy. Throw out the word sexism in an argument and BAM, target is now an evil Antichrist that despises women. Checkmate.

 

[Phasmal]

That's my point exactly. Saying female characters aren't a fair representation of women is beside the point when the community is a far bigger problem.

The industry, and with it, game design, aren't doing anything wrong. When assessing female characters in gaming, the problem is more the way women like Sarkeesian want to be represented rather than the way female characters are actually represented.

Sexism in the community is a far bigger issue to address. What Sarkeesian is doing is just plain useless, especially because she seems unable to make a good point about it without being biased.

The problem with that is how do you address the community?
And how is the industry addressing the community in regards to women?
Like I say, I have no bad feelings towards the industry (except a good portion of frustration), because they're just trying to make money.
They aren't actively trying to be harmful to the treatment of women in games, but persisting in lazy tropes such as women mainly existing merely as cheap pandering objects can be seen as sending a nasty message. I don't think anybody is doing it conciously, but it's there. Consistently, video game ladies are `sexy` in a rigid, predictable way.
There's of course disagreement about how much harm this does, but surely, diversity in this regard is a start.

And there's only so much time the games industry can spend pretending (or acting as if) female gamers do not exist or matter.

 

[GundamSentinel]

The problem with that is how do you address the community?
And how is the industry addressing the community in regards to women?
Like I say, I have no bad feelings towards the industry (except a good portion of frustration), because they're just trying to make money.
They aren't actively trying to be harmful to the treatment of women in games, but persisting in lazy tropes such as women mainly existing merely as cheap pandering objects can be seen as sending a nasty message. I don't think anybody is doing it conciously, but it's there. Consistently, video game ladies are `sexy` in a rigid, predictable way.
There's of course disagreement about how much harm this does, but surely, diversity in this regard is a start.

And there's only so much time the games industry can spend pretending (or acting as if) female gamers do not exist or matter.

Completely true, don't get me wrong, I'd applaud for some more diversity. But not acknowledging that there is already quite some diversity in video game women (even if it's often intentionally so), or just being plain misinformed about her own arguments does hurt Sarkeesian's point (although in fairness to her, you can't be aware of every bit of obscure lore and trivia in a game, and more importantly, most other players won't be either, which makes the point of OP's article somewhat moot).

Another point I miss is that some games inherently will be aimed at a male audience, just the way Lego is and Barbie isn't (that's natural gender identity for ya). Complaining about that and wanting every single game accessible for and aimed at women is just silly. But again, I agree that some change would be very healthy for the industry.

I'll not ignore the fact that the image of women in games is still very skewed, with scantily dressed subservient women running about, but at the same time gaming has for a long time been a very male-oriented affair and it still is for a lot of developers (Duke Nukem Forever much?). But the good thing is, that it is changing (or at least I feel it is), slowly but surely. Addressing the community will always be a problem, but hey, somebody's got $160000 right now to try exactly that.

 

[Jdb]

(although in fairness to her, you can't be aware of every bit of obscure lore and trivia in a game, and more importantly, most other players won't be either, which mkes the point of OP's article somewhat moot).

You must be aware of the details if you're going to say something serious like video games reinforce sexist and misogynist ideas and behavior. Especially if the facts are so wrong it's clear not even an instruction manual was opened.

 

[Weaver]

Zia was a phenomenal character; I'm really surprised she wrote her off as a depthless nobody. She's essential to the entire story.

 

[Elate]

Criticizing Bastion for that?

Right, she's a joke. I'm sorry but she makes straw man arguments with no foundation and I'm starting to doubt whether she has actually played the games she analyses.

The "busty" nymph is meant to be sexy, always has been kinda. Is this a problem? Are female characters not allowed to be sexy now either? THEY MUST BE STRAIGHT FACED OFFICE WOMEN IN SENSIBLE ATTIRE, HOW DARE THEY BE SEXY, HOW DARE THEY.

 

[NortherWolf]

A WOMAN*S ROLE IN LIFE IS TO BE SEXY! AND FUCKED! AND MAKE ME FOOD! LET ME FUCK YOU WHILE YOU MAKE FOOD WOMAN!!DURRR IMMA MAAAAAN!

Yeah, nothing wrong with the gaming community at all...