A veiw on Female characters and Armor. {Discussion}
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I didn't say that male armor is exempt from this, but the topic is female armor, so that's what I discussed.Stall said:
I have to disagree on the attractive part. Ivy's, string outfit is in the impractical group, but her full dress outfits are regal and pretty hot though. But I've always thought of Hilde in the camp of over-armored, to the point of unattractive. I think it's the helm that kills it.Antonio Barrientes said:
Didn't say I didn't care about video games, I'm saying why make such a huge fuss about it (I love how you just assumed I said I don't care about games). Oh no women are always shown to be wearing skimpy outfits in video games (and other media) which is offensive now excuse me while I go hit the clubs wearing slutty clothes and complain about guys who stare.ultrachicken said:
I'm not sure "unrealistic" is the right word (sure it is unrealistic but as some of you say it's also a fantasy setting). Personally I would call it "irrational" (or insane, mental, suicidal) because what reason would your character have for wearing armour with unnecessary holes in it (usually located near some pretty vital organs)? Even the most vain person should realise that in battle survival is the first priority (or victory which usually is contingent on survival).ultrachicken said:
Anyway, I myself have ditched armour with superior stats because it looked far too skimpy for my character. IIRC wow has a system where you can equip stat-less undergarments (shirt?) which I used to make my characters appear more sensible. Also is it just me or have a lot of D&D based games sensible female armor models (DDO, NWN, Baldur's gate)?
Actually, this one would be godawful in a fight. The elbows are the first issue. The easiest way to show how impractical having spikes on the inside of the elbows are is for you to tape forks to your elbows jutting inwards for fifteen minutes and just do normal activities. (Have your tetanus shots up to date if you try this.) Painful...and bloody, isn't it? Now, imagine fighting in that.Eefness said:
This is pretty much done at least close to right. It fits in with the setting and lore very well (being fighters who require a lot of movement and can not be hampered by heavy armor or anything restrictive). The style is consistent with the world, And is defiantly sexy but without being nothing but two dish towels sewn together. The models are pleasing to look at and the animations are nice and fluid and a lot of their attacks fit well with the concept. But again this is only my personal veiw and I do agree that the top is a bit too small but again they need a lot of room to swing around their scythes and maneuver.
That's to say nothing of the bands around the elbows. Yes, in a fight, the most effective way to win is to hamper arm flexibility. You mentioned a scythe. Get a broom/mop/shovel/rake and just move it from side to side. Notice how much elbow movement you're making. Now tie some cloth around your elbows. Notice how much harder it is plus you can't bend your arm as much?
Moving to the bottom, first off, it's a long skirt and it appears to be a little close to the lower legs. Now that would be manageable as long as you weren't doing too much in the way of sprinting but, then, you put these idiotic spiked wheels all around which, at best, will tangle and bang into your legs with every movement and, at worst, the spikes will either stab the legs or get tangled up in the cloth.
You've already mentioned the leather corset and I'm going to be charitable and presume that it has been cured so there isn't issues with any form of expanding or contracting so we'll go straight to the hood. And what a hood it is. Cloth so it adds no actual head protection and it hangs over the eyes cutting off all periheral vision. Yes sir, this is the type of hood that you give someone when you don't want them to come back from a battle.
Looking at this outfit, in any form of realistic battle, this costume says "respect me" less than it seems to be a creative form of committing suicide.
And here is where we get to my point on realism. You (and others) have mentioned realism in costumes but the fact of the matter is that realism is kind of drab really. Yeah, you can punch it up some with colors or with little decorative pieces but, when you come down to things that can be functional in a battle, there is only so much that can be done. I kinda think that, once you get into any form of fantasy or sci-fi setting, realism probably should get thrown out the window in favor of "what looks cool".
As for the "slutty" vs "gender-neutral" garb, that strikes me as a discussion in which everything that can be said has been said before.
The second image looks better in my opinion. A female character wearing that armor looks like some kind of badass battle mage. The first looks like a skirted version of Princess Leia from Star Wars (episode 6, minus the hair buns), which doesn't exactly look like any particular class.
the slutty armor is stupid. since these are fantasy games and not based on history, the only reason for it is to pander to horny teenage boys (and some girls). the problem with the second one is that you cant see your customization? the same could be said of men in full plate armor. besides, unless im mistaken, theres an option to make headgear invisible. does it really matter if you can tell if someone is playing a male or female character?
"Sexy" armour not only looks stupid, but I agree with the gentlemen who commented at the PAX forum that nothing snaps me out of my suspension of disbelief quite as much as the power armour bikini.
If the male characters are traipsing about in thongs I'll chalk it up to "lol fantasy" to be sure, but if - like Firefall - the male characters are in head-to-toe power armour and the female avatars of the same class are wearing a bikini (but armoured boots!!!! her feet will be very safe) I simply won't buy or play it.
Fortunately my favourite genre (military shooters) is fairly good about this, actually.
If the male characters are traipsing about in thongs I'll chalk it up to "lol fantasy" to be sure, but if - like Firefall - the male characters are in head-to-toe power armour and the female avatars of the same class are wearing a bikini (but armoured boots!!!! her feet will be very safe) I simply won't buy or play it.
Fortunately my favourite genre (military shooters) is fairly good about this, actually.
BoredRolePlayer said:
Then what did you mean by this, exactly? Because it seemed pretty obvious to me that you didn't understand why people should make "such a huge fuss" because this discussion is about video games.
The question isn't really about how offensive it is, but more how ridiculous it all looks, and how there seems to rarely be a middle ground between wearing armor impossible to take seriously and armor that completely obscures all the work you put into the character creator.
What the hell does that have to do with this conversation?
Not every female character should have to exude femininity, and I think that's something that a lot of artist devs can't accept. It should be perfectly fine to have a range from very sexy, to attractive but not ideal, to barely noticeably female. Different body types and clothing styles that fit the character are more interesting than seeing the same exact body over and over with a different color bikini.
Both of those costumes look pretty bad, by the way. The first image doesn't even resemble armor at all, and still manages to look frumpy despite lack of a shirt. They're both generic, too.
Both of those costumes look pretty bad, by the way. The first image doesn't even resemble armor at all, and still manages to look frumpy despite lack of a shirt. They're both generic, too.
Well, I'm a girl, but I have no problem with the "Slutty Armour". (Nice name, btw XD) I think it depends on what I'm playing, really. If it's a fantasy game, and I'll use a mage as an example to keep things on track, I'm going to assume my mage has some kind of latent protection spell going on that absorbs enough damage that the armour isn't really an issue. Either that or they assume the warriors are gonna be able to keep everything away from them, in which case the armour still isn't an issue. If I'm playing some futuristic shooter, though, having a metal think and nipple covers isn't gonna fly. No force field will ever be able to protect you. For instance, what if the enemy has decodes the frequencies of your force field, applying it to their own weapons, effectively voiding your only protection?
This isn't even a fraction of all the possibilities. Basically, skimpy armour is okay, as long as there are reasonable alternatives to it, like maybe the skimpy one is a special skin that you have to fight the Thousand Demonspawn of Hell to get. (Or not)
AS long as the armour makes sense in the world the game is trying to sell, I don't see a big problem with it. On the other hand, if it just looks blatantly out of place, then they need to fix it.
This isn't even a fraction of all the possibilities. Basically, skimpy armour is okay, as long as there are reasonable alternatives to it, like maybe the skimpy one is a special skin that you have to fight the Thousand Demonspawn of Hell to get. (Or not)
AS long as the armour makes sense in the world the game is trying to sell, I don't see a big problem with it. On the other hand, if it just looks blatantly out of place, then they need to fix it.
There just never is enough to choose from when it even comes to male apparel, let alone female! I believe if there's a plenty of clothes to wear why worry if there are some "slutty" clothes in the mix? Some people like that sort of thing?
Whilst if it's a main character with "slutty" attire then it usually just comes down to a dev with terrible taste/knowledge in fashion. The only way, I believe, there would be a respectable character is if they're based off of something in real life. I'm wouldn't be joking if I was saying base a character off of Lady Gaga, that would be too awesome.
Whilst if it's a main character with "slutty" attire then it usually just comes down to a dev with terrible taste/knowledge in fashion. The only way, I believe, there would be a respectable character is if they're based off of something in real life. I'm wouldn't be joking if I was saying base a character off of Lady Gaga, that would be too awesome.
This is more or less what I mean by "if the guys are wearing thongs too, it's fine" - because obviously if it made sense to traipse about the battlefield in a gitch in that particular universe, everyone would be doing it.haaxist said:
I mean, if mages have a barrier that protects them from harm and the world stiflingly hot, sure it makes complete sense for a mage to wear light robes that barely cover them - but that applies both male and female mages. If in a sci-fi world all fighters have force barriers so it makes sense to wear a skin-tight catsuit for speed and maneuverability, then it makes sense for everyone to be wearing a skin tight catsuit. If you have female fighters in catsuits and your justification is that they have force barriers so they want to maximize speed and maneuverability, but the male fighters are all wearing bulky power armour...
Yeah then collapses under the weight of its own flawed logic and destroys my suspension of disbelief. I can't be immersed in a fantasy world when I know the only justification for the way it works is an external one rather than an in-setting one - i.e., it only looks that way not because it makes sense, but because the artists are neckbeards.
While this may be dangerous to my health, I'd like to point out that Guild Wars always had really good armor for both males and females. The armor wasn't skimpy to the point of being unrealistic, but it wasn't a coverall either (in many cases, there were extremes to both sides, but enough customization that it wasn't a huge deal).
In my opinion this is a good armor, not a huge amount of skin, but protects what needs to be protected, and still manages to look attractive.
This one is a bit skimpier, but in all reality, still not terrible. It's light, form fitting, and probably easy to move in, which is usually the idea for ranger armor.
Finally, the in between picture. This one is a little skimpier than Exhibit A, but more covering than Exhibit B (in reality it's the difference between tights and no tights). Still a good armor for movement, form fitting, protects the vital areas, and looks good.
In my opinion this is a good armor, not a huge amount of skin, but protects what needs to be protected, and still manages to look attractive.
This one is a bit skimpier, but in all reality, still not terrible. It's light, form fitting, and probably easy to move in, which is usually the idea for ranger armor.
Finally, the in between picture. This one is a little skimpier than Exhibit A, but more covering than Exhibit B (in reality it's the difference between tights and no tights). Still a good armor for movement, form fitting, protects the vital areas, and looks good.
First off I did explained what I ment by it and you quoted it, which was why make a big fuss about it. So women are wearing skimpy outfits in video games, it's not the first medium to do this, I can think of one women people like who has a skimpy outfitultrachicken said:
Wonder Women is a strong female super hero who is respected for more then her outfit, but for gods sakes look at it. That outfit is no more better or worse then female outfits in video games.
I made the slutty clothes comment cause if girls are ok wearing that out to have fun, WHY DO WE HAVE TO MAKE IT A BIG DEAL IN VIDEO GAMES.
And why is it a problem if a female character wears big armor, male character's can. I could care less cause it's a bloody avatar.
I'm not discussing this with you anymore so you can respond to this post but I'm done, I have better things to do then continue the discusses of female armor in video games when other media pulls the same damned thing.
As a male who routinely plays female characters, I like to find armour that looks attractive without being slutty. I don't really care for having half my character's skin exposed but I don't want every detail of her hidden away.
I just had to quote this for that beautiful Freudian slip.Eefness said:
I don't have any pics, but I see quite a few female characters in Rift running around wearing the mage starting gear, which consists of an open-side shirt that ends well above the belly button and a waist wrap that is an inch or two away from showing the panties at all times. Usually there are no pants, or if there are they look more like garter stockings. Other kinds of armor look like corsets or overcoats held shut by one button and -maybe- some kind of bra under it. I've seen very little armor for men that follows the same lines of being low cut, hanging open, and otherwise leaving little to the imagination without the guy simply going around partially naked.
What bugs me about the smut armor is that people call it "being well dressed" when there are more conservative and tasteful outfits that are still very feminine. At least for non-plate pieces.
Personally, I would rather see more middle ground outfits and less of the extreme stuff. It's nice to be able to tell a gender at a glance, especially for RP, but I can get more than enough skin flashed at me just by walking through wall mart (and it gets the same kind of disturbed shudder as video game near-nudity gets)
What bugs me about the smut armor is that people call it "being well dressed" when there are more conservative and tasteful outfits that are still very feminine. At least for non-plate pieces.
Personally, I would rather see more middle ground outfits and less of the extreme stuff. It's nice to be able to tell a gender at a glance, especially for RP, but I can get more than enough skin flashed at me just by walking through wall mart (and it gets the same kind of disturbed shudder as video game near-nudity gets)