A veiw on Female characters and Armor. {Discussion}

[Something Amyss]

I'd rather have the bottom that the top... that did not come out right.

If you want sexy girls go watch porn, however I do agree that there should be some middle ground. Girls can wear cloths and still look good.

Come now, you know that half of what sells games is located in the purchaser's pants.

 

[DementedSheep]

I would prefer the one bottom to the top (tho I don?t really have an issue with the top one) tho I would probably remove the flaming skull hood thing *shrug*
Whenever someone brings up the armour or more appropriate clothing argument someone leaps and says ?Oh well you want everyone in be in sacks then?. No, you can look good without looking sexed up and completly unrelistic for you're role. I don?t even mind the hyper sexualised outfits assuming it actually matches the setting and it?s not the random chick in skin-tight clothing when all the guys are wearing armour. I don't think it's sexist evertime a girl looks "sexy" but there is more to be attractive than flashing skin and somthing can look badass but not in a "I would hit that" way. You don?t need to have the girls half naked or wearing clothing so tight it looks like its painted on, you don?t need to show off very curve or make them look like they?re a dominatrix. It?s not even necessarily a realism thing. Allot of the skimpy female armours look fucking stupud and honestly I think allot of it is lazy design.

 

[Vivace-Vivian]

It really deppends on the style of game. The point of games like Oblivion and Fallout in my opinion is realism, so slutty armor would not make sense in that. I think there are ways to make beautiful and attractive armor for females that also covers quite well. You don't have to show skin to be sexy.

 

[Ruedyn]

ALWAYs go with roman skirts and breastplate. Never goes wrong .

 

[Yoshisummons]

I doubt giving skin on chicks with flaming skulls would turn on many people.
unless you are into that sort of thing

 

[JaceArveduin]

I think LOTRO did this rather well, though since I usually play male characters, (awesome facial hair is ftw, as it happens) but a quick look through google didn't show up anything near chain mail bikini, and the guys have sleeveless stuff too.

[edit] Guess I should add they have a cosmetic function that gives you lots of versatility when it comes to making your outfit look like you want, though you can only cosmetically equip cosmetic only stuff and gear that you can actually equip.

 

[ultrachicken]

Didn't say I didn't care about video games, I'm saying why make such a huge fuss about it (I love how you just assumed I said I don't care about games).

Correct me if I'm wrong but it's a video game who cares?

Then what did you mean by this, exactly? Because it seemed pretty obvious to me that you didn't understand why people should make "such a huge fuss" because this discussion is about video games.

Oh no women are always shown to be wearing skimpy outfits in video games (and other media) which is offensive...

The question isn't really about how offensive it is, but more how ridiculous it all looks, and how there seems to rarely be a middle ground between wearing armor impossible to take seriously and armor that completely obscures all the work you put into the character creator.

... now excuse me while I go hit the clubs wearing slutty clothes and complain about guys who stare.

What the hell does that have to do with this conversation?

First off I did explained what I ment by it and you quoted it, which was why make a big fuss about it. So women are wearing skimpy outfits in video games, it's not the first medium to do this, I can think of one women people like who has a skimpy outfit

Wonder Women is a strong female super hero who is respected for more then her outfit, but for gods sakes look at it. That outfit is no more better or worse then female outfits in video games.

I made the slutty clothes comment cause if girls are ok wearing that out to have fun, WHY DO WE HAVE TO MAKE IT A BIG DEAL IN VIDEO GAMES.

And why is it a problem if a female character wears big armor, male character's can. I could care less cause it's a bloody avatar.

I'm not discussing this with you anymore so you can respond to this post but I'm done, I have better things to do then continue the discusses of female armor in video games when other media pulls the same damned thing.

How does the fact that this occurs in other mediums somehow diminish the value of this discussion?

Wonder Woman inhabits a weird and wild universe where her outfit's impracticality doesn't really matter because her comic book series is all about goofy superheroic antics. Her outfit doesn't need to be deathly serious.

The fact that "slutty" outfits are available isn't the problem, as people should be able to wear what they want, the problem is when they're forced on the player even when the fictional universe tries to get you to take it seriously. It's just stupid to do that. Also, tone down the caps lock, this doesn't have to be an internet shouting match.

As I said and you apparently decided to ignore, I don't have a problem with "slutty" outfits in and of themselves, but they ought to be forced on to the player a lot less often than they are, if at all. They simply look goofy and strange, which fits in certain games, but not the vast majority of those that apply the chainmail bikini.

You seem to have become pretty fixated on your perception of me as some raging feminist who can't stand the sight of skimpy clothing, and have decided to ignore anything I say to the contrary, so fine, stop responding. I won't miss you.

 

[Racecarlock]

Oh yes, haven't heard this one before. I think this is one of those monthly topics, though it could be weekly. Honestly, I don't give a shit if the woman goes into battle wearing two post its and a sugar packet, so long as she's an effective and efficient fighter. I am so tired of this topic. The only ones that come up more are "Mass effect 3 will be gears of halo", "Call of duty sucks", "Stop saying call of duty sucks", "Stop telling us to stop saying call of duty sucks", "Recommend me an anime/game/song/etc.", "Generic shooters are generic so gaming is dead", "Gaming is dead", "I've lost faith in humanity", and "Your avatar is real or eating you or hunting you or something".

 

[Thespian]

-snip-

Wait, seriously? The first one is more appealing? The first one is bland, boring and looks a Barbie doll's unpopular line of toga models. The second, though not great, is a lot more interesting and at least has character and vibrancy.
Speaking as a gay man, that is. But still, I don't think I'd like a man running around in a thong I'd much prefer the arcane robe-y option.

 

[Thespian]

I've never understood why people hate "skimpy armor".

First, whenever women do itDo what? Hate skimpy armor? You mean, have an opinion different to yours?, it sort of strikes me as being feminist in the worst possible way, i.e. where a small, non-representative subset of women believe they are speaking for womankind everywhere. It's really odd, come to think of it: only women tend to assume they are speaking for their entire gender. The folks at that PAX panel are really guilty of this. It's not what these women really want from gaming, or what they think gaming needs, but what ALL women really want for gamesBased on their experiences as active females in the industry. Clearly they have had a lot of dealings with other women in similar roles, and are offering their experiences up as knowledge. It's an intriguing little phenomenon... you never seen men try to speak for their gender as a wholeYes, you do... Quite often. Think about it, it's not out of the ordinary to hear "We don't do that, we're real men" or "It's a guy thing"... just women.


Shit, I got off-topic, didn't I? Anyways, a lot of girls I've met playing MMOs like, or don't mind, skimpy armor. They like having their avatars look cute and attractive. Everyone likes an attractive femaleWrong, I'm gay and living proof, I don't care how attractive a woman is. What matters is cool, original aesthetic design., including straight women (why the hell do you think magazines like Cosmo always have attractive women on the cover?). There are some that DO legitimately hate it, but nine times out of then, they are the "vocal minority". This is, of course, just based on my experience as a male and observer.You accuse women of speaking for their entire gender just because they voice their experiences, yet you do the same with your experiences except for a DIFFERENT gender, and it's okay? You realize saying nine times out of ten is a sweeping generalization, right?

When men do it, it just strikes me as being pussywhippedCharming. Women don't need your help defending themselves on the internet, nor do they need you campaigning for the sake of womankind. As a man, I never try to "defend" women, because quite frankly, they don't need defending. Honestly, it's regressive to sit around and "white knight" women. They're grown-ups too... they don't need you making long paragraphs on the internet about how female armor in games is horrible and bad. They are more than capable of doing it themselves if they feel so inclined. It's not about defending women. It might be about defending people in general, but it's not even that. Women aren't being oppressed here. It's just that constantly seeing skimpily dressed females shamelessly sexually pandering is boring. It's more of a plague on aesthetic design in games than it is on females. You don't have to be a civil rights activist to just dislike a certain style of art.

I prefer female characters wearing heavy plate, simply because it is an obvious subversion of a ridiculous cliche.
But then again, Kratos hardly wears anything other than a skirt, and nobody is whining about it being "unrealistic". Although realism was never a priority in GoW games.

... I don't know when "realism" has been a priority to any fantasy game, let alone God of War. Isn't it a bit of an oxymoron to juxtapose those two words anyways?

I mean, if we were REALLY being realistic, if you wore plate armor, then you'd move around at am absolute snail's pace, have to constantly hydrate or risk death, and you couldn't take off your armor without having two other people in your party with you. I've always assumed all pretense of realism goes out the window with fantasy. A "realistic fantasy" game would be totally and absolutely boring. If a bunch of pixels shaped like a woman showing off too much flesh is where you draw the line, then I really cannot even begin to understand how you got past the plethora of fantasy races, fucking magic, and the dozens of other things that aren't "realistic" in a fantasy game
It's not so much about realism as it is when something just looks fucking ridiculous.
For example, with races in a fantasy game, a race of orcs is no less realistic than a race of purple flying elephants, but the latter just looks totally ludicrous and doesn't gel with the atmosphere. Same thing here - Wearing light, cloth armour into battle is just as unrealistic as wearing plate armour and sprinting around, but seeing a woman wearing a loin cloth and bikini to a sword fight just looks stupid, whilst it's easy to forget that plate armour would probably restrict movement a little more than is shown.

 

[Eefness]

-snip-

Wait, seriously? The first one is more appealing? The first one is bland, boring and looks a Barbie doll's unpopular line of toga models. The second, though not great, is a lot more interesting and at least has character and vibrancy.
Speaking as a gay man, that is. But still, I don't think I'd like a man running around in a thong I'd much prefer the arcane robe-y option.

Yea im sorry, i guess I should have rephrased my thought proses on the first. I was trying to compare to extremes but got lost halfway through (<<<, has terrible focus). Was meaning to point out how the first one is too skimpy but the second one is far too over designed. It may just be that I really hate the design of the second (or really like the look of skirts) but I find the first one , while WAY too skimpy, easier to look at. Again it may just be my taste but I do enjoy the simplicity of the first, give it a different top, add a good looking hood of sorts and some gloves of some kind and it would be fine.

It just feels like the seconds is just a little overboard with the amount of stuff piled upon it.

But then again I was simply trying (though a bit awkwardly) to make a point on two extremes with a limited library of resources at my disposal. A middle ground is needed and some choice given in the matter.

Edit: I do know of one outfit in WoW that did it kinda right but unfortunately I have forgotten the name of it >_<.

 

[awesomebillfromdawsonville]

Well, you CAN uncheck the Show Helm box in the Interface button if the Firelord's Hood bothers you that much....but that Raid Gear is SOOOOOOO 5 months ago.

 

[Mordwyl]

What bothered me was not the fact there was skimpy armour, but the VERY SAME PIECES of armour changed completely depending on the gender. How can a piece of chest armour turn into a bra?

Having the option is amazingly attractive. Having none on either term is bad business.

 

[Antonio Barrientes]

Hilde may be one of the most unbalanced characters in Soul Calibur 4

But she also manages to wear practical, functional, yet attractive looking armor.

Excellent point, and welcome to the Escapist. I've always liked Hilde because of her armor, especially in a game as full of tits as Soul Calibur.

Of course, there is the damaged outfits function, which means if Hilde loses, she might be nekkid by the end.

Not in her original outfit- the worst that happens is that most of the armor falls off to reveal a form-fitting noble suit, with no skin.

When you play dress-up with her, though... then it's different.

 

[Antonio Barrientes]

I'll say this- if people can whine about how Ivy from Soul Calibur is dressed because it capitalizes on sex appeal, then it should be equally fair to whine about Rock or Astaroth's barely realistic man-bodies of sexy muscle, yet we hear little of that.

 

[WolfThomas]

A person on a mount and blade forums summed it up quite accurately "Breasts conform to metal, not the other way around". The armour in games is pretty much why I never play as a female.

Spoiler: Some decent depictions of females in appropriate armour in my oppinion, while still looking reaonably good

I think the armour women NPC's wear on Oblivion (vanilla version) strikes about the right balance- not too slutty, practical as armour but subtly reveals the pleasant female form.

Except the chainmail. That was ridiculous, it's left the neck and arms completely exposured.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

I'll take a bit of a flame-risk here and admit that it doesn't bother me half as much in a fantasy setting. I'll compare to movies. When you have some girl pulling martial arts moves in a movie that look like they wouldn't even make you flinch, and throwing guys around it looks a bit silly. But the same goes for guys (there were some cringe-worthy moves in The Matrix too, blocking attacks that wouldn't even make contact and so on). It might be cool to some, but it looks pretty cheesy to me. In a more fantasy setting though, I simply don't care as much, which is why Sucker Punch actually got away with whatever they chose to do, and High School Stripper Teenage Ninja Fury wouldn't.

In games, it's the same. It's a fantasy game, so it comes down more to aesthetic value, not "practicality" or "realism" or whatever. Some people just think girls look stupid fighting in underpants, and some think they should be padded up completely. Well, consider the tone of the game. If it's something like Dragon Age, where it's trying to take itself seriously, it would seem more out of place, no? It's got issues such as sexism, racism, and other kinds of prejudice going on.

However, a game like Torchlight, whose story serves more as a background for some solid hack'n'slash dungeon crawling, can get away with a lot more risque outfits. Though it doesn't, really, the armor in that game looks fantastic. So WoW, with it's quite consistent tone, is just responding to a huge fanbase and modern issues rather than it's artists trying to create a look and feel for it, kinda sad really. A game that big though should just allow players to create the look of character they want, be it slutty or prudent.

 

[Kashrlyyk]

....
... Isn't it a bit of an oxymoron to juxtapose those two words anyways?

No, it is not an oxymoron, look up "willing suspension of disbelief". And for me chainmail bikinis reducing damage as good as full plate armor, is definitely destroying my suspension of disbelief.

Just because it is fantasy doesn't mean everything is allowed without a believable justification. Imagine a serious fantasy movie where one person wears a different set of cloth every time the camera cuts back to that person, even if just a second has passed between two shots of that person. Would you say "Well, it is a fantasy movie." or "What the hell is wrong with that persons cloths?"?

Thespian in post 71 actually has a better example.