A Warp Drive Is Within Our Reach, Apparently.

[Evil Smurf]

I want a hyperdrive motivator built. I DON"T WANT TREKIES TO WIN!

 

[CAPTCHA]

If we find a race inferior to us, most of the countries will fight over who gets its land and who can enslave it. This will most likely cause a massive war between nation and possibly cause our extinction. If we find a race superior to us, we will most likely attempt to make relations with them, the relations will fail, and we will fight them. This will possibly cause our extinction as well. Even though discovering other life is interesting, it will most likely cause our deaths.

We'll never have any sort of meaningful contact with an alien species. There are sciientists at the moment who are trying their best to communicate with terestrial life forms and are having no luck. Just how much meaningful information can you pass back and forth between a man and a blade of grass? That example just shows a difference of a few point of sentience quota; chances are that we will find life forms with a much greater degree of seperation than between man and plant. How are we supposed to communicate with an entity that converses purely in fluxtuation in space/time or through gamma ray bursts that exceed our measurable bandwith. I doubt that we'd even be able to tell we were dealing with anything sentient, that is if we could even detect them at all.

 

[Double A]

Okay, guys, calm down. I'm not talking to the people who are genuinely excited about this, I'm talking to everyone who's saying we'll never get off this accursed rock, and if we do, we'll enslave or kill every last one of the xenos. If anything can make us a better species and stop being dicks to each other on such a frequent basis, it's another sentient species. If they're less advanced than us, I imagine we have learned our lesson from the Age of Imperialism (and half of the sci-fi genre). If they're more advanced, I won't automatically assume they're out to murder or enslave us, because that's what Hollywood expects to happen, and Hollywood is the polar opposite of the Oracle of Delphi when it comes to predicting the future. For everyone claiming it'll cost too much and exploration is impossible unless we unite as a planet, keep in mind that technology improves every day and the resource requirements for existing gadgets and theories go down along with time. Even if we aren't united, exploration will not be impossible. It's a huge cliche, but anything we put our minds to, we can do. Freakin' men on the moon.

Considering the universe is infinitely big, I doubt we'd come into contact with another alien race for a very, very long time, which means at least one of our races' shit will be settled by then.

 

[Lhianon]

well, within ~13000 years we developed from highly advanced omnivorous herd animals with simple technology only one step ahead from other primates and a simbiotic relationship with certain wolfes to the alpha-predators of terra which are so adapt at killing that we wipe out other species without even noticing it in some cases.
if ftl-travel is possible and we would be "the first" (yay, babylon 5 ^_^) to develop it, we may very well become the alpha-predators of the milky way within the next 1k - 1.5k years, and it would be a good thing from the human perspective.
(also, at this point, the term "human" would be a thing of the past; at this point the term "integrated terran intelligence" would be more fitting, because we would have found a way to biotechnologically engineer our own further evolution while developing AI, with which we probably would communicate with some kind of direct brain input, perhaps even the ability to transfer the intellectual abilities of a given individual from a biological brain to an artificial one [which also would lessen the impact of the huge time necessary for interstellar travel])
let me elaborate why i think it would be a good thing: to even get to the point were we would be able to colonize the stars within the next 100k lightyears it would be necessary to be able to tap into the resources of the whole sol-system, just to have enough exotic elements and rare metals.
if you extrapolate the growth of the human population at its current rate, a large amount of that will be dedicated just to meet the requirements of the growing population living a western or chineese lifestyle.
if you now think one step further to ~15-20 planets inhabited by terrans, they would be become really uneasy with non-terran-intelligence trying to develop ftl at their doorstep, using resources terrans could "put to better use".
most likely an automated explorer would "jump" into a system, discover a species below its own technological level, determine if it would be able to reach a comparable level, and if this is the case, order 5-10 AI-controlled drone-carrier-ships armed with railguns, massdrivers and ECM/ECCM from the next base to wipe them out before they could become competitors for resources (keep in mind that wiping out species is what we do casually since the last 10k years, for instance horses in north america by the first indians, wolfes and vultures in most of middle and western europe during the dark age and renaissance, the dodo by european settlers and so forth).

we certainly would not try to conquer them, they only would adapt and resist, unified through a common enemy, fighting a guerilla war to drive us out, looting our destroyed drones and reverse-engineering them to beat us with our own tech.

however, this will probably not happen because religious fanatics which want to life in the bronze age under a cross or a halfmoon or "eco fanatics" which want us to live like bovines, hares and sheep (while disregarding that extinction is a part of evolution if a species can not adapt and some species like rats, mice, dogs, cats, bovines, wheat, apples,... profit from humans) will put a stop to this if rampaging suicide-capitalists dont do it.

 

[Alternative]

I think I read somewhere that if the age of the universe was measured on a clock, we would currently be 2 minutes past midnight on the first day.

What that means, is that the universe is still very young, and that humanity may very well be the first advanced species.

You see all this sci-fi stuff, well it turns out that humanity may be the Vulcans, the Asari. We are the ancient race that discovers younger civilisations

I am skeptical about that. Simply because i dont believe that humans are that special.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Why does everything have to be about Slavery? I mean, what would the point of slavery be when we have machines for all that? We don't NEED slaves... we will probably NEVER need slaves. And considering how much more inefficient a slave would be compared to a specialist Machine, NOBODY will want a slave!

I never implied slavery personally; I said tyranny. It's about resources. People (or living things in general) are a resource with a relatively high operating expense. People are nothing if not pragmatic when it comes to exploitation and thus you are at least partially correct - if the final balance shows it is cheaper to use a robot, people will use robots for a task.


I could make a lengthy argument supposing much as a reason why even in the distant future slavery is a possibility but that was never my point. If there were technologically inferior aliens between the human race and something useful, we would find plenty of excuses to move in and take it using various means of oppression. From doing it to "help the poor savages" (perhaps even if born from honesty) to xenophobia (we don't even like things that are almost entirely identical to us - I hardly think we'll be terribly opposed to brutal slaughter of sentient slime molds) to simple pragmatism (they're in the way of something we want)

It would if one had a rather shallow and simplistic view of human history. Believe it or not people don't just do shit for the hell of it. Wars and conflict are always fought over either material or ideological gain. Consider this: Even if we suddenly had to ability to harvest and transport resources from thousands of lightyears away, why exactly would we not go to the billions of other uninhabited planets very probably filled with the same resource? What exactly would we be angry enough at the aliens for that we would kill them? The lulz?

You are, in fact, quite correct - people are not prone to violence for the sake of violence. Except that we are prone to violence for the sake of sport (hunting, various sports), entertainment (gladiatorial matches, boxing and other martial arts, fictionalized violence in all media), and have even developed a number of schools of thought that suppose violence (the expression of power in the purest form) itself is both means and end (nihilism is a notable example).

What's more, even if you don't look at the various reasons why people indulge in their darker side for simple amusement, you need not look far to find reasons why we'd be perfectly comfortable inflicting violence on something that isn't human. You point to it yourself - there is something to be gained. Other humans have a tremendous advantage when it comes potentially facing a human adversary - we're all pretty much alike. This slim protection is often the only thing that ends violence and tyranny in the end. An alien is unlikely to closely resemble people and will enjoy no such protection. Hell, it wouldn't take much to assume there would be plenty that would advocate slaughter simply because they're not people and yet they are intelligent - a rather blasphemous supposition to billions even today.

 

[TheTJackson]

Well shit, this means I owe a friend a chocolate frog....never thought i'd lose that bet!

 

[Proto325]

Scientists theorize about a possible way to travel faster then light and do an experiment that's as crude as a stone wheel compared to an atomic clock and we're suddenly wondering when we can book a trip to the nearest star. You know why aliens don't want to visit us? We're dumb and overly excitable creatures.

I'm pretty sure that those characteristics will make us adorable to the aliens.

OT: Rather than enslave and pillage them, we might simply keep an "inferior" species as pets (or does that count as slavery?). Then again, the reverse could be true, and I'm not sure how I feel about being a pet.

Hang on... Dumb, excitable and adorable? In the eyes of more advanced aliens, we'll basically be space puppies.

 

[kickassfrog]

Here's the scoop:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49064028/ns/technology_and_science-space/

Now, aside from the fact that I had heard about this a few months ago on a National Geographic show, it's still pretty neat to think that we're actually experimenting with stuff like this.

This, however, did give me a rather interesting thought...lets assume that all the UFO stories are "fake". That is to say, they're not alien crafts, but rather just super-secret military test-flights of super-secret aircraft. Tying this back into the notion of developing a warp drive, suppose we do and go out to explore the galaxy. Now, pretty much all scenarios of a First Contact situation seem to be of the assumption that whatever we find out there will be much more advanced than us.

Well what if that's a load of bullshit? What if we go out there and find that there is other intelligent life out there, societies and races we can only imagine...yet WE'RE the ones who are technologically superior to them. In fact, it turns out that humanity is the top species in the galaxy. What do you think would happen to us as a people and society should we one day find out that we're the dominant species in the galaxy?

Personally, judging by the history of advanced cultures meeting more primative ones here on our planet, I honestly don't think we'd be very neighborly...

I think we'd have to seed the galaxy with tech, then group all the countries/planets into roughly equal teams and go all out civil war with each other.
Allows us to be the precursors.

 

[krazykidd]

I don't believe in alien lifeformes . But if they did exist , they would probably be more intelligent than us or are the very least more united and structured . That being said , if hypothetically , we were the more intelligent of the two races , it would be most likely to be hostiles , if only because we would be unable to communicate with each other . Hell we can't even get along with orselves. Thus leading me to believe we would attack them , but be wiped out due to the lack of unity . Assuming we are on their home turf .

The amount of logic in this post is equal to the amount of corners in a sphere.

How bout contributing something useful nextime . Kthxbai.

 

[[REDACTED]]

I don't believe in alien lifeformes . But if they did exist , they would probably be more intelligent than us or are the very least more united and structured . That being said , if hypothetically , we were the more intelligent of the two races , it would be most likely to be hostiles , if only because we would be unable to communicate with each other . Hell we can't even get along with orselves. Thus leading me to believe we would attack them , but be wiped out due to the lack of unity . Assuming we are on their home turf .

The amount of logic in this post is equal to the amount of corners in a sphere.

So it makes an infinite amount of logic? Or none?

 

[Mr.Squishy]

This plus the singularity/transhumanism/possibly curing cancer, aids and aging...I'm excited.

 

[Da Orky Man]

You know C.S. Lewis wrote an essay that touched on this. I'll leave his quote here, because it just about sums up my opinion.

"It sets one dreaming to interchange thoughts with beings whose thinking had an organic background wholly different from ours (other senses, other appetites), to be unenviously humbled by intellects possibly superior to our own yet able for that very reason to descend to our level, to descend lovingly ourselves if we met innocent and childlike creatures who could never be as strong or as clever as we, to exchange with the inhabitants of other worlds that especially keen and rich affection which exists between unlikes; it is a glorious dream. But make no mistake. It is a dream. We are fallen.

We know what our race does to strangers. Man destroys or enslaves every species he can. Civilized man murders, enslaves, cheats, and corrupts savage man. Even inanimate nature he turns into dust bowls and slag-heaps. There are individuals who don't. But they are not the sort who are likely to be our pioneers in space. Our ambassador to new worlds will be the needy and greedy adventurer or the ruthless technical expert. They will do as their kind has always done. What that will be if they meet things weaker than themselves, the black man and the red man can tell. If they meet things stronger, they will be, very properly, destroyed."

You can read the entire essay here, it's a good read.

scientificintegrity.blogspot.com/2010/04/religion-and-rocketry-by-cs-lewis.html/

Welcome to the Escapist. Don't go into the basement, beware of Daystar detailing threads, and stop being so depressing. We currently live in a relatively peaceful time, and we have enough depressed sods here already.

Oh, and don't make any gender threads. We get enough as is.

 

[Waffle_Man]

Once it became feasible to do so, quite possibly.

Sure, they'd be no material gain as such, but what if it was a vote winner? What if it was politically useful to bomb a country full of brown people, who just happened not to be human and live on a different planet?

A vote winner? When is the last time you saw a politician run on a platform of "nuke the rain forests?" Because that makes about as much sense as a platform of "Screw dem Aliens!"

No doubt humans have done harm to the rain forests, but it isn't like people do it for shits and giggles.

Except that we are prone to violence for the sake of sport (hunting, various sports), entertainment (gladiatorial matches, boxing and other martial arts, fictionalized violence in all media),

There is no doubt in my mind that we find violence fascinating, but only when we think it "builds" something. Sports are pursued because they allow people to realize their potential. However, this ignores the practical concerns involved with aliens. I very much doubt that the romans would have held gladiatorial games if it had taken a rather consequential percentage of rome's treasury to acquire a single gladiator.

and have even developed a number of schools of thought that suppose violence (the expression of power in the purest form) itself is both means and end (nihilism is a notable example).

While I would agree with the phrase "The world is run by the aggressive use of coercion," I'm less inclined to agree with "the world is run by the stupid use of coercion."

What's more, even if you don't look at the various reasons why people indulge in their darker side for simple amusement, you need not look far to find reasons why we'd be perfectly comfortable inflicting violence on something that isn't human.

Other humans have a tremendous advantage when it comes potentially facing a human adversary - we're all pretty much alike. This slim protection is often the only thing that ends violence and tyranny in the end.

You seem to be under the assumption that I think humanity incapable of aggressively dealing with aliens. I never wrote that. I have no doubt that humanity "could" destroy a less advanced race. The question that I have is "why?" Are there people that buy private jet planes so they can fly around the world and punch random people in the face? These two things are both within the capacity of human beings, but people who would logically connect the two usually don't conform to society in a way that affords them the required resources.

You point to it yourself - there is something to be gained.

Such as?

An alien is unlikely to closely resemble people and will enjoy no such protection.

It isn't that big of an assumption to imagine extra terrestrial beings as different than humans, but there is absolutely no basis to make any statement regarding whether or not extra terrestrials would be afforded rights or not.

Hell, it wouldn't take much to assume there would be plenty that would advocate slaughter simply because they're not people and yet they are intelligent - a rather blasphemous supposition to billions even today.

What?

Captcha-"i'm only human"

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Just let me know when I can start booking flights off planet.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

There is no doubt in my mind that we find violence fascinating, but only when we think it "builds" something. Sports are pursued because they allow people to realize their potential. However, this ignores the practical concerns involved with aliens. I very much doubt that the romans would have held gladiatorial games if it had taken a rather consequential percentage of rome's treasury to acquire a single gladiator.

This constructs a straw man argument. I demonstrated a predilection for violence for sport and entertainment. The perceived value (or cost) of such action has nothing to do with my point nor does your counter argument undermine my own.

While I would agree with the phrase "The world is run by the aggressive use of coercion," I'm less inclined to agree with "the world is run by the stupid use of coercion."

That's excellent since I never asserted a "stupid" (an inflammatory word with no value given we are unlikely to agree upon a "smart" use of violence that is inclusive and utterly satisfactory) use of violence. Rather that violence is and has long been used for a variety of means.

You seem to be under the assumption that I think humanity incapable of aggressively dealing with aliens. I never wrote that. I have no doubt that humanity "could" destroy a less advanced race. The question that I have is "why?" Are there people that buy private jet planes so they can fly around the world and punch random people in the face?

There are people who purchase private jets and fly around the world to "punch people in the face". These include: mercenary organizations (literal use of force perpetrated by an entity not representing a government directly and often not acting at the request of a recognized government), sportsmen (literal use of force against varying entities) and so on.

These two things are both within the capacity of human beings, but people who would logically connect the two usually don't conform to society in a way that affords them the required resources.

Generally because they perceive they have something to gain I expect. The reasons are as varied as the scenarios an actors themselves.

Such as?

A non inclusive list that makes no absolute suppositions about those involved (in other words, not all examples are necessarily going to apply): sport, nihilistic expression of power, ideology, secure a resource, secure the aid of another, countering a perceived threat (including simple xenophobia).

It isn't that big of an assumption to imagine extra terrestrial beings as different than humans, but there is absolutely no basis to make any statement regarding whether or not extra terrestrials would be afforded rights or not.

The basis has been made historically. The trends indicate that the likelihood of any two people going to war is mitigated by perceived similarities between the two. In general, large scale support for war or violence or tyranny is achieved only when a population is able to claim their opposites are somehow lesser examples of humanity. This ignores other casus belli of course since perceived inferiority simply makes it easier to justify going to war for some perceived gain.

What?

Various religions and some subset of those who follow said religions do not believe in the existence of other intelligent life besides humans. These include: Judaism, Christinaity, and Islam notably. You can agree or not with the interpretation of particular bits of the old testament that lead to this assumption - I for one think it is foolish. But, regardless, to assert that there are other intelligent beings in the universe generally goes against the doctrine that teaches man is unique in his intellect and thus asserts to the contrary would, by definition be blasphemy.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Well what if that's a load of bullshit? What if we go out there and find that there is other intelligent life out there, societies and races we can only imagine...yet WE'RE the ones who are technologically superior to them. In fact, it turns out that humanity is the top species in the galaxy. What do you think would happen to us as a people and society should we one day find out that we're the dominant species in the galaxy?

Simple. The same thing the colonists did to the natives everywhere they landed.

Abused the hell out of them.

Because "It's ok, they're not human!"

*has a VERY low opinion of humanity*

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

All I need to know is when should I begin buying a star trek uniform and wait around at nasa?

Hang on, I've been doing this for years and only NOW I'm told this isn't normal behaviour?

I don't believe in alien lifeformes.

Of the billions upon billions upon billions of stars, orbited by trillions upon trillions upon trillions of planets, in the infinite reaches of the unfathomably large vastness of space, the life on this planet is all there is?

wut

God only made life on one planet! Jeez, some people.

If a Warp Drive does becomes reality soon, then I might consider owning a planet.

Y'know you technically can, some spanish lady owns the sun, it is actually legal to file a claim for any astral body and purchase it for nothing because there are no previous owners.