about nazi germany.

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GrinningManiac

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ActivatorX said:
GrinningManiac said:
I am and English history student, with a 90/100 A-level History in Nazi Germany

I completley concur, but would say that the reason there's so much german-hate and german-blame is for two reasons

1) Germany (not Germans, but the state) did AWFUL things in WW2 (not so much WW1) and rightly deserve all that hate. However, people are reknowned for their grudge-holding abilties, as well as bigotism, hence the ingrained belief that every German was in on the Final Solution (I.E. Deathcamps) and they all still do it today.

2) Propoganda at the time of WW1 and WW2 blamed both wars solely on Germany. WW2? Fair enough, but WW1 was, in a way, Austira/Serbia/Bosnia/Russia's fault, though everyone had been raring for a fight for about 40 years. Because of the propoganda, fierce anti-Germanism spread across France and Britain particularly. This feeling has been passed down, and still exists today

Therefore, it's a long-running and deep-cutting issue that will not resolve itself anytime son. The best we can do is educate and distinguish between German people and the German state

I'm not sure I understand why it was Serbia's and Bosnia's fault.
Ah, confusion of terms here. I mean "blamed", not as in someone's at fault, but as in "they were the reason it started", simply because the argument between Austria and Russia over the slavic lands was the metaphorical match that blew the cannon. Whichever way you lok at it, Germany did not start the war
The US went to WWI & WWII only after something happened to them.
WWI - U-Boat sank Lusitania with 128 American passengers aboard. America goes to war.
WWII - Japan attacks Pearl Harbor. America goes to war.
Which is entirely fair enough. It's like complaining Brazil didn't get involved: It's completley uninvolved in the proceedings. Granted, America brought about WW2 themselves by failing, despite Woodrow's attempts, to join the League of Nations, but, at the end of the day, they weren't particularly involved in the actual bombs-and-guns proceedings of the ACTUAL wars.

Though I'd agree that they kinda big themselves up over singlehandedly 'winning' the war. Quite honestly, it's great they chipped in both times, because both wars would have lasted longer and been bloodier without them. But the fact remains that Germany was doomed both times round, ESPECIALLY in WW1
 

HotFezz8

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Corporal Bill said:
HotFezz8 said:
caspertjuhh said:
I see a lot of german hate on these forums. I considered these forums to be relatively mature, yet I see so much historical fails.

It is indeed commom belief, that the Germans were responsible for both WW1 and 2.

I think it is very hypocrite to think ONLY the germans were responsible for those wars, and also very naive to think Germany was the only country in europe with jew hate around WW2. France was worse, but the lost, so they couldn't help it.

And most of all, it wasn't like all germans are nazi's. Better yet, almost all the country's they conquered had a lot of nazi-germany sympathisers.

And, no, I am not German, I am a Dutch history student.

/rant
er, the germans WERE solely responsible for those wars... they started them. both times. consistently.

circumstances and mitigating factors mean nothing, end of the day, the germans struck first and generally struck hard, then lost. tough shit, live with it.
im trolling for answering the question?

fuck you. how precisely was i meant to respond to a question? with some limp dick attempt at humour? (like, for example, yours?)
 

Chrinik

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Nazi, as in short for national socialist, was the term for MEMBERS of the NSDAP...
Not everyone was a member of said organisation. Which does not mean you cannot support them. Many people in germany are NOT part of a political party, and still vote them...as I believe is the case everywhere else in democracy.

Also, Hitler did something very akin to what some certain other superpower does all the time up until now, either stage or find a reason you have been attacked, claim someone responsible and invade their country for revenge, then find some reason to continue.

Hitler was a person with a great way of talking. Else he wouldn´t have found so many followers.
The SA burned the Reichstag and blamed it on Van der luppe and the evil bolchevics. They then invaded poland.
Also, Germany DID NOT invade Austria...it was annexed in part of the Anschluss, which many austrians cheered for.
BUT, one has to know why it became a world war. Prior to WW2, Germany was a very respected country politically. It´s charismatic leader however was seen as someone to be watchful for, which is why suddenly everyone banded together, and formed treatys. After the invasion of Poland, noone really threw a fit, since they shared it with their then ally russia, and people did not want to piss off russia.
Then germany invaded france because they had buissness to do there, mainly, revenge for the poor treatment after WW1. They couldn´t breach the Marginot line so they went the detour over Belgium, which pissed off britain to no extend.
All the while, russia was already piling up massive assault armies on it´s borders for a possible pre-emptive strike at germany, which was focussing on the west more now.
Hitler saw that, and tried to make a counter-move, by invading first.
The Blitzkrieg however did not work out in a long, tedius war, and while initial advances during Barbarossa where significant since russia was prepared for attack, not defence, the 30 or so russian ARMIES agains 4 Panzerkorps and 5 german armies eventually got the upper hand.
They drove back germany, and since they gave them a reason, continued with their planned invasion.
Meanwhile, the war over britain was in full affect. Britains new radar proofed to be valuable against the Luftwaffe, since their by then very few fighters could easily intercept even the largest bomber fleets with maximum efficiency.
If the constant harrassment would have gone on for a month or two, germany would have eventually destroyed the RAF completely, could have comenced an invasion of british mainland and probably use it´s very advanced and battle hardened land forces to win the day. Luckily, Hitler was surrounded by self-proclaimed experts or war, namely a fat opium addict and a short guy with complexes.

Hitler also pretty much jumped the gun by making HIMSELF the ruler over the military forces, not his very able generals, which had planned the previous Blitzkrieg offenses and won.
He grew paranoid of being betrayed (what with the constant assasination attempts he FUCKING SURVIVED EVERY TIME!!!), and thus, dug his own grave.

Also, a majority of germans where anti-semetic at that time, might be the case. But an even larger percentage did not know the real intentions behind the final solution (it was marketed simply as deporting the jews out of german territory), and were very unaware of mass-death camps, which were designed with plans of soviet Gulags by the way.
It is pretty harsh in hind sight, when they discover RECENTLY, documents which describe buildings as Gaskammern (gas chambers), with the intend of WHAT to be gassed left in the air. Clothing was also "gassed" in "gas chambers" against lice and stuff, with Zyclon B no less, making people find large amounts of Zyklon B orders.
They also find lists of names of people being "deported". As I said before, that was the official reason why they where put on the trains.
But nowhere does it say WHERE they got deported to, or what happened to them there. It is then simply assumed they went into a death-camp and got exterminated...a little fast, but actually not so far-fetched. Yet, solid proof is something different.
Also, the name "concentration camp" actually sais what it means. A camp to concentrate certain kinds of people in. It is not synonymous with death-camp and most concentration camps INSIDE german terretory where actually just large penal and labor camps. The most killing operations have been conducted OUTSIDE german territory, in Poland for example, as to not blow their cover with the german populace. Despite the anti-semeticness, they could not afford anyone to find out what they really do, since that would have certainly resulted in a concentrated effort to bring them down.

So the reason why germany lost wasn´t because the allies where supperior, it was because their leader was a crazy lunatic with no skill in strategic planning and losing trust from his generals and people, who put off some of his plans as simply "crazy-talk".
The propaganda machine was running high on all sides, and the aftermath of WW2 is that britain now mocks us of our nazi-past every time a bigger football match is about to commence (IE: The blackshirts are back! Blitz-sieg! and whatever...as if bombing Dresden for no reason wasn´t enough somehow<.<)

The largely popular Erwin Rommel was almost put to trial for disobeying orders (IE, fucking owning everything in france, but not as planned by the Oberkommando Wehrmacht, hence the name "Ghost Division". He lost in Africa because germany had problems with the supplys and generally stopped caring once the ruskies knocked.), but choose to shoot himself to preserve his dignity.

This is what I´VE personally gathered through my research. It is by far not all, and it does not have to be 100% correct, as I have not yet consumed any and ALL information, which is also impossible.
 

Chrinik

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HotFezz8 said:
No, but your very obviously wrong statement can only hint two things: Misinformed uneducated person or troll in it for the lulz...he assumed the latter as to not offend you probably, since noone can be that dumb in actually believing information that was disproofed by historians and chronologists world wide.
Read some WW1 and WW2 chronicals for example, they go into very minute detail as to WHAT exactly happened prior and during the wars...they are very informative.
 

Caspertjuhh

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Oct 19, 2010
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HotFezz8 said:
Corporal Bill said:
HotFezz8 said:
caspertjuhh said:
I see a lot of german hate on these forums. I considered these forums to be relatively mature, yet I see so much historical fails.

It is indeed commom belief, that the Germans were responsible for both WW1 and 2.

I think it is very hypocrite to think ONLY the germans were responsible for those wars, and also very naive to think Germany was the only country in europe with jew hate around WW2. France was worse, but the lost, so they couldn't help it.

And most of all, it wasn't like all germans are nazi's. Better yet, almost all the country's they conquered had a lot of nazi-germany sympathisers.

And, no, I am not German, I am a Dutch history student.

/rant
er, the germans WERE solely responsible for those wars... they started them. both times. consistently.

circumstances and mitigating factors mean nothing, end of the day, the germans struck first and generally struck hard, then lost. tough shit, live with it.
im trolling for answering the question?

fuck you. how precisely was i meant to respond to a question? with some limp dick attempt at humour? (like, for example, yours?)
Learn your history.

In the long term, all of this could be considered the fault of the german army leader in 1870-1871 french-german war, where they conquered Elzas-Lotharingen. If they didn't decide to place the end-of-war treaties in the FRENCH versailles palace, maybe there would be less revenge feelings from the french, resulting in a different WW1, and maybe no WW2.
 

HotFezz8

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caspertjuhh said:
sigh.

the germans started world war 1 by invading Belgium (technically Austro Hungary may have invaded serbia first, but it was the german involvement which started the world war) and the germans started world war 2 by invading poland. therfore the germans started both world wars. read the ****ing question.

and no, before you start, i didn't look at the mitigating circumstances or the factors that led to that actions (and OF COURSE they are important, vital in fact to understanding why it happened) but the question wasn't "why did the germans start the world wars?" it was "It is indeed commom belief, that the Germans were responsible for both WW1 and WW2".

put simply, the germans are held as starting both world wars because they DID start both world wars. "start".