ADD is Quite The Overused Excuse, it Would Seem...

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GrinningManiac

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Not just "Hyperactive"

Round here, It's just an excuse for poor parenting and generally douchey behaviour

A little fat prick in a younger year is the bane of the entire school, because he wanders around, says stupid things, sticks his porky fingers in other people's business (literally, he detuned a mate's guitar because he wanted to play it when the mate had his back turned)

People's reponses range from threatening to murder the bastard to simply reporting him, and he's immune, because he's "Spweshul"
 

Eggsnham

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GrinningManiac said:
Not just "Hyperactive"

Round here, It's just an excuse for poor parenting and generally douchey behaviour

A little fat prick in a younger year is the bane of the entire school, because he wanders around, says stupid things, sticks his porky fingers in other people's business (literally, he detuned a mate's guitar because he wanted to play it when the mate had his back turned)

People's reponses range from threatening to murder the bastard to simply reporting him, and he's immune, because he's "Spweshul"
That's not ADD or ADHD, that's just a dick.
 

Trebort

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I work with kids from the ages of 3-16 and encounter people with supposed ADD and ADHD every day of my professional life.

It's a totally made up condition to act as a politically correct way of sugar coating poorly behaved people and poor parenting in children. I really wish slapping it out of people was an option. It would really help.
 

Eggsnham

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Trebort said:
I work with kids from the ages of 3-16 and encounter people with supposed ADD and ADHD every day of my professional life.

It's a totally made up condition to act as a politically correct way of sugar coating poorly behaved people and poor parenting in children. I really wish slapping it out of people was an option. It would really help.
Once again, it does exist, it's just much rarer than anybody will admit.

For what it's worth, I don't use my diagnosis as an excuse to slack off and be a dick either.

Not that I need to worry about that anyways, as the medicine helps wonders.
 

Aerodyamic

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SODAssault said:
As someone who's been diagnosed and heavily medicated for ADD, I think I can say that ADD is a symptom of crappy schooling, not mental deficiency. Standardization, overly-large classes, stupid criteria... give me a reason to pay attention in the first place.

I can focus perfectly well on something that actually interests me, and the medication didn't help me focus on anything I didn't care about. Adults are prescribing amphetamines to children because we were bored with the things they try to cram our heads full of.

EDIT: To cover my own ass, I'd like to point out that I'm painting with a broad brush, here. Of course there are going to be genuine cases, but as far as I'm concerned, ADD is a moneypit for the pharmaceutical industry, and we all know how much they and the government love to finger-fuck. That means that nobody with the power of oversight is going to step in and say "hey, really, guys? Everybody has it, now?", because the government gets huge cut of the profits. God bless 'Murrika.
While I agree that jacking most kids full of amphetamines (and its' cousins) isn't a bright idea, I've been taking a med in that family for almost 10 years, and it helps me. Mind you, I started taking it when I was about 22, so it's not like the sudden introduction of the drug into my system could have the sorts of serious ramifications that you might see with a child that's still growing. The medication works great for me, but I also have to get blood work done annually, to determine if the chemicals are causing my internal organs to overwork themselves.

I have a theory concerning some of the early cases of ADD/ADHD: most North Americans around my age that have been diagnosed with either 'condition' may have been exposed to things while in utero that caused unusual changes in their bio- and neurochemistry. Specifically, the hormones that were suddenly being approved by the FDA (and Canadian equivalent) back in the 60's and 70's. I display the normal 'focus issues' and some hyperactivity, but I also have higher than normal testosterone and adrenaline levels during non-active periods, and serious aggressive tendencies. Those last three symptoms are usually associated with someone that is using steroids, but a lack of ability to focus is pretty common amongst steroid users, as well.

But, I doubt I'll ever convince a doctor to actually put any effort into a study, besides the fact that it'd be considered highly immoral and unethical to test hormone-laden meat products women and their fetuses.
 

Dastardly

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Hattman said:
As I said,kids must learns to live it and people must learn to respect those who actually got it.
Really, with disorders like this, I think FULL responsibility is on the parent and child. As long as a person acts in a respectable manner, there is no special reason that anyone would NEEd to LEARN to respect them. And if they're acting out in a disruptive manner, even if it IS because of the disorder, no one has to cut them any slack (in my opinion).

It's like my sisters growing up... when "that time of the month" would come around, they tried the whole "Okay, it's that time, so you need to be extra nice and careful to me." And I called "bullshit" on that. Basically, I told them "If YOU know that YOU are in a bad mood, for whatever reason, it's up to YOU to be the one who's 'careful'--you don't use it as a license to make everyone else walk on eggshells around you."

Now, I wouldn't do things to annoy them. I treated them as normal. And that's how it should be for everyone. I feel the only exception, really, is providing services and building modifications for people with physical handicaps (ramps, hearing aids, large print menus, etc.). But mood disorders, and the like? Nope.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Eggsnham said:
For what it's worth, I don't use my diagnosis as an excuse to slack off and be a dick either.
Heh. I found people who use it as an excuse to be a dick pull up short when I say to them "How about if you don't use ADHD as an excuse to annoy the fuck out of me and I don't use being psychotic with violent tendencies as an excuse to stomp you into a fucking stain?"


And no, I don't often bring up my being psychotic to people because it seems to encourage them to try and push my buttons. The results are rarely good.
 

thegaminggirlfriend

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Mar 21, 2009
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ADD/ADHD seems to be very over-diagnosed. My fourth grade teacher tried to get me labeled with it but it turned out that I wasn't paying attention because I already knew how to do the work. Yay for avoiding Ritalin.

It's called being a small child and being asked to stay stiller than you want to or can. Let them live. If the kid is waking up at 4 in the morning to chew on the kitchen table and dump every box of cereal on the floor, every day, then you should talk about a diagnosis.
 

Jagers1994

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Eggsnham said:
Jagers1994 said:
It's completely imaginary and drug companies like money of course it is overdiagnosed
It's not completely imaginary, on meds, I can focus so much better and actually get shit done.

Without meds I couldn't sit through more than two minutes of conversation without daydreaming about something completely unrelated.

It's just that doctors and parents think that when kids get one bad grade or want to be active that it's immediately ADD or ADHD.

There needs to be a standard for how unable to focus and do shit you are before doctors prescribe amphetamines to whatever kid they like.
Well that was the wrong wording. What I meant to say was ADD is not a medical condition. Its a state of mind. When your in a state of mind you entire life thats what your personality is.

Well of couse you can get shit done when your on meds. Thats what they are made for. If they didn't work then they would just be placebos.

You can't sit through more than 2 minutes of a conversation with daydreaming? Same here, you know why? Because without daydreaming (a part of your imagination) theyre would be no conversaton to be had. Try a little experiement. Get up and talk to someone without using your imagination or even thinking once. I mean criticaly thinking not just involantary hello how are you shit. There is nothing to be said because you cant think of anything to say with the ability to imagine anything. Either that or you just talk to boring fucking people with boring fucking lives and you space out because your trying to entertain yourself. I do it all the time.

Last two bits I 100% agree.
 

Dastardly

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Sgt. Sykes said:
You know, I'd much rather be diagnosed with ADD than be called a spoiled brat and smacked around all the time, like that was supposed to make me 'sit still'.
But why?

Both can be EQUALLY destructive, because both are very often just methods of completely avoiding the problem by incorrectly assigning blame.

The "Call you a brat and smack you" solution: If the teacher is doing it, they're just saying "Look, it's your PARENT'S job to get you back on track, not mine." Which is not untrue. But that needs to be said to the PARENT, not you. If the PARENT is the one doing it, however, we've got big issues.

Parents will VERY often punish their children for being brats. This can be very effective... or it can do nothing at all. Punishing a wrong behavior is really ONLY effective if 1) the punishment discourages the behavior and 2) an alternate, appropriate behavior is modeled and encouraged. Calling the kid a brat labels the behavior, but it doesn't tell the kid WHAT is wrong about it. And it doesn't tell them what the "not bratty" alternative would be... so the kid will just guess (probably wrong) or more likely just keep doing what they're doing.*

WHY THEY DO IT: Because tons of parents fail to realize that the behaviors their kids are using are LEARNED. And most of them? Learned from the parent--either by the parent teaching them directly, or by allowing (by negligence) something ELSE to teach them. It's like young drivers that wonder why the car broke down, when it's because they never checked the oil. They don't think they DID anything wrong, and they didn't... but their ignorance ALLOWED something wrong to happen.

The "Label it and give the kid a pill" solution: Whether or not there is a chemical imbalance causing the problem for that particular kid, this is only half the issue. Okay, so you've removed the imbalance--you've gotten rid of the "Don't"--but you haven't modeled or encouraged the right behavior--you haven't provided the "Do." So, what happens? They either experiment with some OTHER wrong behavior, sit there doing nothing, or just go right back to what they were doing.

WHY THEY DO IT: It's a classic example of "Problem's solved from our end." The kid may just be sitting there like a zombie, or moved to a special class, or whatever... but at least he's not misbehaving anymore, right? He's not running around, breaking things, causing trouble, and so on. The same could be done with a few shots of Nyquil or a seatbelt, for all it matters.


IN BOTH CASES: Parents want to END behaviors they don't like, but they don't want to do the work of CHANGING those behaviors. They don't want to be the TEACHERS that they should be, which would prevent a lot of that stuff, and then they don't want to be the DETECTIVES that they should be in figuring out WHY it's happening and what should be done to change it. It's "I don't care where it goes, just get it out of my sight."
 

Sea Lumberjack

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Well I don't think that ADD is an actual disease. It's more of a "mindset/way you were raised" kinda thing. Most kids can get over it if they just jump off the meds and actually try. The same thing with being bipolar. It's easily controlled if you try.
 

Dastardly

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Sgt. Sykes said:
Parent: Don't bug me! I have work to do!
Kid: But I'm soo boored!
Parent: Just find something to do.
Definitely 99% of the problem, right there. And what they parents ALSO need to realize is that, since that's probably also how life went BEFORE the "disorder" set in, that's likely where their child DEVELOPED some of those behavior problems in the first place. When parents let children "raise themselves," things like this happen.

And even GOOD parents make this mistake. There are plenty of parents who are nice to their children, provide good food and nice clothes and a clean house... but if those parents are not ALSO serving as their child's first and most important TEACHER (of behaviors, manners, life skills, conflict resolution, and so on), the job's not being done FULLY.

Of course there's also the labeling problem, i.e. when someone is labeled as having a mental disorder, they may be often looked down upon. Yet, I still think that's less bad than just yelling at the kid for being a brat. At least, if the kid is properly diagnosed, he/she knows for real he/she is not bad per se (which kids often think when adults yell at them and that's the most damaging thing of all).
I agree that labeling poses problems, but I think most often the problems come from the OTHER end. As a teacher, I have so many students that come to me in middle school already diagnosed with this-or-that. And those diagnoses are kept TOP-EFFIN'-SECRET, by law and our code of ethics. If other students know, it's because the STUDENT is telling them. At this point, ADD/ADHD aren't disorders that kids are "ashamed" of in any way. Quite the opposite.

Once a child is labeled, they have a license to use that label to excuse any aberrant behaviors or academic shortcomings. They learn quickly (as do the parents) that receiving a low grade in something can easily be fixed by claiming the teacher is "not properly accomodating the student's special needs." Principals often cave, because the fact is that school employees can be fired--parents can't.

I've had students with other disorders say things to me and other students like, "I've got XYZ disorder, so if you don't leave me alone, I'm gonna bust you up!" Or students that immediately shut down before even trying something, saying "I've got ABC disorder, so I can't do that kind of stuff, and you can't make me try."

The label, in my experience, is far more debilitating than the disorder. I'd love to find a way for the problem to be properly treated WITHOUT giving the child the excuses that come with the label.
 

Siuki

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It's one hell of an excuse, but it must suck to actually have it. I had a teacher who had ADD. She told us to always study immediately a test date is issued because when she was younger she couldn't manage by doing anything else. Good advice.

I haven't heard this excuse much though.
 

gurall200

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I would say yes but only from experience, I had a teacher (or school official, I dunno nor do I care to find out) who thought I did (or wanted me to) and tried to get my parents to put me on Ritalin, they of course didn't, the teacher couldn't hold my attention, a couple of school years later, I had a teacher who figured out how to keep my attention, make me read books, worked strangely.
 

Dastardly

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Sgt. Sykes said:
It's not just about ADD, but any other disorder or disability: if the person is diagnosed, they should be able to excuse *something*, but also need to know how to overcome it.
Not in the least. It something is "excused," then that's it. There's no "overcome," it's excused. There is a big difference between something having a REASON and something having an EXCUSE, and I think that is at the heart and soul of what we're doing wrong here. A "reason" identifies the source of a problem without blindly assigning blame. An "excuse" forestalls any consequences of the problem.

Even serial killers do what they do for a REASON, and if anything is to be done to help them, it's important to understand that reason. But never, at any point, would we allow that to be an EXCUSE. There are consequences that still need to apply, for the good of the offender AND everyone else.

As an example with kids: Bobby doesn't know how to tie his shoes right. Because of this, he trips over his laces while walking through the room and knocks over a glass of something, spilling it on the floor. Now, we can look at the REASON for this and find that Bobby didn't do it on purpose... but does that excuse Bobby from being the one that has to clean it up? No. We don't yell at him or treat him as though he did it on purpose, of course, but we still hold Bobby responsible for the clean-up--accidental or not, it IS his mess.

With ADD/ADHD, if a child TRULY has it (which in most cases is up for a LOT of debate) it's not something they do maliciously. But their actions still have consequences. So, the disorder isn't an excuse for them not to work on it, but rather a reason for them to be expected to work HARDER to overcome it.

Indeed there's not much help in this area. When someone is wheelchaired, they get lots of help (I'm not saying it's ever enough, but comparably it's a lot). They also know what they can and cannot do.
To continue this wheelchair analogy, when someone is in a wheelchair, that's not an excuse for them to just sit around until someone else pushes them where they need to go. While it isn't their FAULT (likely) they're in the chair, it's their RESPONSIBILITY to do something about moving. Just having a handicap doesn't mean they never have to work--it means they have to work HARDER, using their arms to compensate for their legs. If they don't, their problems will only get WORSE--and that WOULD be their fault.

But ADD/ADHD is not like being paralyzed. It's like having a broken leg--it CAN be healed someday. Maybe you won't be running any marathons on that leg, but it can eventually regain most of its usefulness even in the case of a very bad break. But only if you work HARDER than a person with two good legs--instead of using the cast as an excuse not to do anything.

When someone is ADD, they often have no idea what to do about it. So I'm not really wondering that some kids take advantage of their situation - it's the only way they found to cope with it.
You're right in one regard--the child needs someone to show them what to do about it, besides take a bloody pill. But there are still two problems that will hold the kid back:

1) Us. If we let the disorder lower OUR EXPECTATIONS, the kid will also lower HIS EFFORT. The kid might need some extra time or extra help, but we still need to expect them to adhere to the same standards. We can't just give them a pass because of some letters in their files.

2) Themselves. In all the thousands of years we've been on this planet, kids have not changed. Parents have. Kids are just pure followers of human nature--part of which means they will take an opportunity to get out of work, if they can. I've got students with asthma who claim they can't participate in class on test day (in simple, non-strenuous exercises)... who go to softball practice an hour later. They've learned that they can use that excuse to get out of work they don't feel like doing, because people are too afraid to risk the chance they're telling the truth.

I understand where you're coming from on this--if you SHAME a kid about something they don't know how to control, you'll only AMPLIFY these behaviors. But it's important to recognize that those behaviors and excuses are there, anyway. We need a combination of both approaches. On one hand, we need to correctly identify obstacles like ADD/ADHD, so that we can appropriately assign blame where it belongs (if anywhere). On the other hand, we can't lower our expectations of the child, or allow the child to shirk responsibility for their results.

Having a REASON for something doesn't mean having an EXCUSE.
Just because something isn't your FAULT doesn't mean it's not your RESPONSIBILITY to fix it.