Advanced RPGs?

[child of lileth]

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Oblivion is one I played. One of my best friends loves it, and kept talking about it, so I got it and I just couldn't keep going. I couldn't stand the leveling system (like alot of people, from what I've seen on forums). It just discouraged me so much that I could fight people, monsters, and animals for hours, but jumping off a small hill a few times gave me 3x the experience I got from hours of gameplay. It just didn't make sense to me, and when someone explained how it has to do with the build of your character (class, traits, and so on), it just didn't seem like it would be something I could enjoy doing.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

And to back up the people who said Disgaea: YES it is a jrpg, but it's still very good. And humorous. Try it out!

Also one where I learned something incredibly useful from the after-menu demonstration.

Unit stacking!

 

[Stormz]

Snip

This list is good. Don't forget Gothic 1 though! that's also really amazing. Gothic is one of my favorite rpg series.

 

[Weaver]

I like Disgaea, but it's barely an RPG. There is an inventory system, but it's shallow.

Have you even played it? "Grind-tastic", yes. "Shallow", you're joking right!?

There's an inventory system, yes. But you can level up any item by entering into the item world (every individual item has one) that will contain anywhere from 30 - 100 floors. By capturing innocents in said world, you can double the bonus stat(s) attributed to the item. Those bonuses can be swapped around to any other item and combined to make higher bonuses...

Of course, there's also the upteen character classes and even more monster classes that a character can re-incarnate into. Each of these have several levels as well...

Spells, Abilities and Weapon affinity can all be levelled (each one seperately).

Each character can spend points to create new characters. In D1 & D2 these created characters could teach their creator any spell that they did not already know.

EDIT: I don't recall how it worked in D3 (for teaching spells to the creators), but that game also the ability to enter into any party member for more levels and upgrades...

And as stated before, the level cap is only a measly 9999.

Pair that with a hilarious story that doesn't take itself seriously and you have an SRPG that is made of win.

So when I said the majority of the game is just battlefields and the item system is shallow, you counter that the item system is actually deep because... you can play more battlefield maps in the items? I admit it's cool (even if heroes of might and magic did it years before), but there is really nothing overtly complicated about it and it disappointed me that every item was a weapon, we don't get greaves, arm bands, boots, helmets, accessories, etc.

I don't see why you're so up in arms about people criticizing Disgaea. OP said he doesn't like Japanese RPGs and child of lileth just flew off the damn handle about Disgaea. Maybe he just doesn't like the Japanese style? I can't judge peoples taste and you're recommending him a game that's more of a strategy title than an RPG. Moreover, if he values western ideals in his RPGs he's going to find very little that appeals to him in Disgaea.

Why was this game even brought up in the first place? I don't see the call for yourself and child of lileth to be bashing people who don't like Japanese games because obviously people can't have fucking different tastes in things, right? And YES I've played a CRAP load of JRPGs in my time and absolutely loved a lot of them but I'm humble enough to realize that not everyone has to think and act exactly like I do and love absolutely everything I do exactly as I do.

 

[SquirrelPants]

Pokemon. Hundreds of Pokemon, hundreds of moves, hundreds of move sets. On a regular playthrough it will last well over 24 hours, and then there are tons of secrets to find, a ton of Pokemon to catch and level(obviously), and, with EV training, it is more strategic than most RPGs you'll find on the market today.

Oh wait, it'-

Oh wait. It's Japanese, so it must be shit. Nevermind.

Damn, someone beat me to it.

 

[watergirl]

Wizardry 8

 

[SquirrelPants]

And Torchlight is the easiest Roguelike I have ever played. Avoid it unless you're new to the genre.

...Torchlight counts as a Roguelike? It's certainly a fun game, definitely inspired by them, but...does it really count as one? After playing Dungeon Crawl and Nethack and DOOM: The Roguelike, I refuse to believe that it counts.

 

[Lemmibl]

O shi- I wasn't expecting so many replies. Good stuff, this. Actually having doubts about not playing JRPGs now.

 

[Aulleas123]

I, like you probably, am a huge Bioware fan. However Vampire: Bloodlines is an excellent RPG if you're into vampires who aren't sparkly (which you probably are).

 

[TOGSolid]

And Torchlight is the easiest Roguelike I have ever played. Avoid it unless you're new to the genre.

...Torchlight counts as a Roguelike? It's certainly a fun game, definitely inspired by them, but...does it really count as one? After playing Dungeon Crawl and Nethack and DOOM: The Roguelike, I refuse to believe that it counts.

I've seen Torchlight pop up in Roguelike lists. It and Diablo 2 don't match games like Nethack (<3) exactly, but they do have randomized dungeons, options for perma-death, and loot and lots of it. What they lack is the turn-based gameplay and are capable of actual multiplayer. Do these not count for some reason?

 

[Regna]

Play some Oblivion I loved that game so much to do...
and Fallout 1,2,3 and Upcoming Vegas are good well vegas is just a repeat of 3 in vegas with gameplay fixes new enemeis n stuff

But Fallout is a shooter type so yeah..

 

[matrix guardian]

-snips "skip to the end"-
Why was this game [ Disgaea ] even brought up in the first place? I don't see the call for yourself and child of lileth to be bashing people who don't like Japanese games because obviously people can't have fucking different tastes in things, right? And YES I've played a CRAP load of JRPGs in my time and absolutely loved a lot of them but I'm humble enough to realize that not everyone has to think and act exactly like I do and love absolutely everything I do exactly as I do.

Yes but I think your missing the point. The OP said that they wanted "By advanced / complex I mean they've got a lot of different classes or stats and stuff to min/max and all that, not just like 3 different skills " I will admit that I haven't yet played Disgaea, but from the discussion it sounds like it fits all the criteria that the OP wanted... other than what country the game was made in ("not jrpg"). So I agree that different people have different likes/dislikes and who cares if you don't like what I like or vice versa. But I think the Disgaea discussion was meant not to be "You should like jrpg's, because I like them" but rather a discussion about "You might like Disgaea, even though it's a jrpg. It may be from Japan, but it has a lot of the things you said you wanted." Anyway, the question I think is, If OP wants a game with X, Y, and Z in it but not jrpg, and someone offers a jrpg with XYZ, would it hurt to reconsider which is more important? Having XYZ, or Not being a jrpg?

EDIT:Also the question to ask is, "Is it really true that the OP doesn't like jrpg's?" People's tastes can change. I used to hate tomatoes. But now I like them and would even eat a whole one like you'd eat an apple.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

O shi- I wasn't expecting so many replies. Good stuff, this. Actually having doubts about not playing JRPGs now.

Of course, the problem there is that there aren't many JRPGs on the PC... you know, the platform you specified in the OP which some people in their rush to burn you at the stake for not wanting to play JRPGs seemingly missed.

 

[Weaver]

-snips "skip to the end"-
Why was this game [ Disgaea ] even brought up in the first place? I don't see the call for yourself and child of lileth to be bashing people who don't like Japanese games because obviously people can't have fucking different tastes in things, right? And YES I've played a CRAP load of JRPGs in my time and absolutely loved a lot of them but I'm humble enough to realize that not everyone has to think and act exactly like I do and love absolutely everything I do exactly as I do.

Yes but I think your missing the point. The OP said that they wanted "By advanced / complex I mean they've got a lot of different classes or stats and stuff to min/max and all that, not just like 3 different skills " I will admit that I haven't yet played Disgaea, but from the discussion it sounds like it fits all the criteria that the OP wanted... other than what country the game was made in ("not jrpg"). So I agree that different people have different likes/dislikes and who cares if you don't like what I like or vice versa. But I think the Disgaea discussion was meant not to be "You should like jrpg's, because I like them" but rather a discussion about "You might like Disgaea, even though it's a jrpg. It may be from Japan, but it has a lot of the things you said you wanted." Anyway, the question I think is, If OP wants a game with X, Y, and Z in it but not jrpg, and someone offers a jrpg with XYZ, would it hurt to reconsider which is more important? Having XYZ, or Not being a jrpg?

EDIT:Also the question to ask is, "Is it really true that the OP doesn't like jrpg's?" People's tastes can change. I used to hate tomatoes. But now I like them and would even eat a whole one like you'd eat an apple.

As I've stated though, the game is BARELY an RPG. If you like complex strategy games then Disgaea is with out a doubt up your alley. I'm giving people a lot of flack in here, but the game IS very good and it IS a lot of fun. However, if you like complex western RPGs (branching dialogues, character development, role playing, crazy stat builds, worlds to explore, people to interact with, etc. ) Disgaea just doesn't have these things.

Maybe I'll blame OP for being vague on "lots of stuff to min/max". Does Disgaea have stuff to min max? Yes, that's basically the driving force behind the whole game. It has tons of crap to level up if that's all you want. So will OP like it? Probably, it's a good game; but I assumed his JRPG clause was because he liked the ideals of wrpg's that I listed. Maybe I jumped the gun?

Lastly, Disgaea has never been released on the PC so I don't see how OP, wanting a PC game, is going to play it. If you wanted a complex SRPG from Japan on the PC the only one I can think of to recommend is The Last Remnant.

 

[Mr.Amakir]

Ultima IV. Play it NOW.

Also almost every roguelike is an advanced so i would recommend Nethack. But then again i always recommend Nethack.

 

[Humble85]

I second any mention of Arcanum. It more of a classical kind of RPG and has tons of opportunities, so give it a try.

well vegas is just a repeat of 3 in vegas with gameplay fixes new enemeis n stuff

Wait...You already played New Vegas?!?!*shock*

 

[erikthered44]

EDIT: Sorry, missed a sentence in the OP's post. Disgaea.