AhhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAaaaaa... a Zoe Quinn movie.

[Jux]

Oh I'm not defending any other posters here, but don't call me transphobic.

I'm not, don't put words in my mouth.

I'm arguing its transphobic to not give the role to a trans person.

That's fine, I agree having a transwoman play her, if she's trans, is the best way to authentically portray someone.

Quite frankly, having a cis-woman and playing a trans-woman when being trans is a big part of the character's story will be innacurate and disorientating.

And having a cisman play her wouldn't be?

Since famous trans women are noticably in short supply, if a famous male who is willing to do the necessary physical and psychological work to portray a trans person (in this case, Nicholas Cage) then that is preferable over a cis woman.

Why? If 'being trans is a big part of the character' and thus precludes a ciswoman from playing it, what makes a cisman any more qualified, or appropriate? Are ciswomen incapable of 'doing the physical and psychological work to portray a trans person', or less capable than a man? You want to talk about erasing someones past, but a bigger issue is the erasure of their gender identity.

 

[Josh123914]

-snip-

If you think a trans woman should be played by a man because "they used to be a man" (which is a false statement) then you would also logically think that they should be played by infants, as they were all infants at one point, right?

No, because on a fundamental biological basis, MtF transpeople still develop in ways different to cis people.

Oh I'm not defending any other posters here, but don't call me transphobic.

I'm not, don't put words in my mouth.

The wording of the quoted post made it seem to be directed at me, my mistake.

Quite frankly, having a cis-woman and playing a trans-woman when being trans is a big part of the character's story will be innacurate and disorientating.

And having a cisman play her wouldn't be?

It would be, but arguably less so than a cis woman, and finding a cis woman who walks the fine line of having certain masculine subtleties while remaining female, would be much more difficult than taking a cis male and making them more effeminate.

Since famous trans women are noticably in short supply, if a famous male who is willing to do the necessary physical and psychological work to portray a trans person (in this case, Nicholas Cage) then that is preferable over a cis woman.

Why? If 'being trans is a big part of the character' and thus precludes a ciswoman from playing it, what makes a cisman any more qualified, or appropriate? Are ciswomen incapable of 'doing the physical and psychological work to portray a trans person', or less capable than a man? You want to talk about erasing someones past, but a bigger issue is the erasure of their gender identity.

Hmm, I see what you mean.
But having a cisgendered person play a trans person is going to be a compromise, and I would find having a cis male play a MtF character more engaging and immediately identifiable in the same way having a cis woman play a FtM character be more engaging.

I'll just repeat that ideally, you'd find trans actors to play trans parts, but I'm only arguing this in the case of someone like Brianna Wu because the transition happened many years after puberty occurred.

EDIT: A tonne of words

 

[Jux]

What was a trans man before they transitioned?

Easy, a man. And before that a boy. A false presentation of who you are is not who you are.

You just said, "If you think a trans woman should be played by a man because "they used to be a man" (which is a false statement)"

"They used to be a man" is a "False statement", or it isn't?

Mars was quoting "used to be a man", which denotes that either someone else said it, or at least is the idea being presented (which I think was the case here, as that seems to be a popular sentiment at large regarding transpeople), not that it was her thoughts on the matter, which should be evident by the parenthetical follow up.

 

[Jux]

My bad, I didn't notice the double quoting.

It happens, I've made the same mistake in the past.

 

[Darks63]

About the only Female actress that comes to mind that does crazy well is Charlize Theron. I do agree though that going to a male right off the bat is a little suspicious but I wanted to play DA.

I can think of a few actresses that I've thought "did crazy" pretty well (as a general comment on actresses "doing crazy", not whether Wu should be portrayed as such). Fairuza Balk was great in The Craft as Nancy. And I have a memory of Lena Heady's character in Dredd being unstable (and well acted), though it's been a while since I've seen that. Kate Mara in American Horror Story, whose character was pretty unbalanced after death. Ooh then there's Famke Janssen, who was fantastic towards the end of Hemlock Grove when her character was losing it. And Troian Bellisario I thought was good in Pretty Little Liars at the times her character was having difficulties keeping her shit together mentally (although not "crazy").

Also, as far as I know, Brianna Wu hasn't said she's trans. That doesn't change the implications of suggesting a male actor play her, given the common belief that she *is* trans, but unless she has come out and said she is, it's not very polite to keep saying she is as if it is a fact.

Its interesting you bring up Famke since she has already playeda trans women in Nip/Tuck although it was not a very positive presentation of a trans women. CT was the only current big actress that came to my mind due to seeing Monster and the Snow White remake. As for the others I find Lena Headly to be a little too wooden myself, Fairuza hasnt done much in while that I have seen, and I havent seen Troian Bellisario in anything.

 

[Josh123914]

No, because on a fundamental biological basis, MtF transpeople still develop in ways different to cis people.

Their gender identity doesn't develop differently, in fact it develops identically to cisgender people [http://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/transgender-kids-are-not-confused-or-pretending-study-finds#.crEEqPpg], and since gender identity is one of many inflexible matters when casting a biopic (you don't cast a black woman to play Abraham Lincoln, after all) you would cast a woman to play a woman and a man to play a man.

I'm not disputing the psychological element, but Brianna Wu most likely had male genitals, and (for instance) grew in accordance with male puberty to the height of a cis male, rather than your typical female.

 

[Jux]

The wording of the quoted post made it seem to be directed at me, my mistake.

To be precise, just so there isn't any ambiguity here, I feel that calling for a man in general, or Cage specifically (in Wu's case anyway), to play a trans woman is a transphobic statement to make, but I'm not extending this to making a character judgement on any singular person saying it. I hope that clears things up.

It would be, but arguably less so than a cis woman, and finding a cis woman who walks the fine line of having certain masculine subtleties while remaining female, would be much more difficult than taking a cis male and making them more effeminate.

Why less so? Just based on the following reasoning? That they're women, just like transwomen, is the important detail. CGI or make up can make anyone look however you want them to look. But this line of reasoning that 'cismen made to look effeminate do it better' is part of the problem, because it puts the focus on a man trying to look and act like a woman (which is a majorly prevailing transphobic attitude), instead of a woman being trapped in the wrong body, and trying to live authentically. And frankly, another problem with all of this is that it reduces the story of this person to what they were born with between their legs, which is hardly the end of what it is to be trans, and a great disservice to the more relevant parts of their life to the story at hand.

 

[Azure23]

No, because on a fundamental biological basis, MtF transpeople still develop in ways different to cis people.

Their gender identity doesn't develop differently, in fact it develops identically to cisgender people [http://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/transgender-kids-are-not-confused-or-pretending-study-finds#.crEEqPpg], and since gender identity is one of many inflexible matters when casting a biopic (you don't cast a black woman to play Abraham Lincoln, after all) you would cast a woman to play a woman and a man to play a man.

I'm not disputing the psychological element, but Brianna Wu most likely had male genitals, and (for instance) grew in accordance with male puberty to the height of a cis male, rather than your typical female.

I fail to see the merit of a height based argument here. Jack Reacher, the six and a half foot tall übermensch, was played by tiny little Tom Cruise. It's called camerawork.

 

[Josh123914]

Lumping this quote in here because I sort of address the point in the same post

The wording of the quoted post made it seem to be directed at me, my mistake.

To be precise, just so there isn't any ambiguity here, I feel that calling for a man in general, or Cage specifically (in Wu's case anyway), to play a trans woman is a transphobic statement to make, but I'm not extending this to making a character judgement on any singular person saying it. I hope that clears things up.

It would be, but arguably less so than a cis woman, and finding a cis woman who walks the fine line of having certain masculine subtleties while remaining female, would be much more difficult than taking a cis male and making them more effeminate.

Why less so? Just based on the following reasoning? That they're women, just like transwomen, is the important detail. CGI or make up can make anyone look however you want them to look. But this line of reasoning that 'cismen made to look effeminate do it better' is part of the problem, because it puts the focus on a man trying to look and act like a woman (which is a majorly prevailing transphobic attitude), instead of a woman being trapped in the wrong body, and trying to live authentically. And frankly, another problem with all of this is that it reduces the story of this person to what they were born with between their legs, which is hardly the end of what it is to be trans, and a great disservice to the more relevant parts of their life to the story at hand.

No, you're right about the makeup, and camera directions could probably do as good a job on that front.
Strictly from a film viewpoint, and assuming trans actors are not available, how do you approach this that isn't disorienting for viewers? OiTnB worked very much because Burset's actress just happened to have a male twin brother, and the amount of trans people in that position, that also happen to work on camera are going to be in very short supply.
I get where you're coming from over some people misinterpreting it as the character trying to "act" like a woman, and to me the only way to swerve that bullet is good writing. hmm.
I actually kind of am envisiging a scene down the line whereby if they went with a cis actress, and everything was completely normal in all the scenes, and then the reveal is that she is really trans, but nobody saw it coming.
Honestly, this movie writes itself, you don't even need a big budget.

 

[McMarbles]

5 people deadnaming Zoe because, by their own admission, they heard it annoys her (BUT SRSLY I TOTEZ DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT HER I MEAN LITERALLY WHO? LOL IM ACTUALLY LAUGHING SO HARD RITE NOW AHAHAHAHAHA SEE I'M TYPING LAUGHTER THAT MEANS I'M LAUGHING HAHAHAHAHA)

4 people talking 'bout her nudes, discussing where to find them, one saying 'I went blind seeing them cause she's so fucking ugly'. So many ethics.

3 people debating whether or not it's transphobic to say 'Brianna Wu should be played by a man. For accuracy. Lol get it she looks like a man do you get it that's the joke.'

And 2 warnings on the first page for people who said much more insulting things, like 'I think there are some man-children in GamerGate.'

Did this forum become the fucking Ralph Retort while I wasn't looking?

Well, yeah... can't have people being triggered. This is a safe space.

 

[Something Amyss]

"Dead naming"? Seriously? That's for trans people taking on new identities, not for slebs taking on stage names.

Except it's not a stage name, which is one of the reasons certain people had to actually dig it up.

And "deadnaming" does not solely apply to trans people. Sorry.

 

[Czann]

In case anyone is confused I didn't call OP a Troll but I called Deadline (the site where this came from) a Troll for this questionable and sourceless news.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

I was answering Dazzle.

I'm not sure how that at all detracts from the point made. Forums are not one on one things you realize, yes?