Adam Jensen said:
I never really got Esports for this reason either. Unless you're at the highest level and basically become one of those adored top level players, you're going to have a bad time of it. And even those players have to know that the second someone better than them comes along or the game they've mastered is no longer popular, their goose is cooked.Here Comes Tomorrow said:
I'll try to elaborate on this duality a bit:Gethsemani said:
Is there something wrong with having only male friends? Or with getting attention? I think you're describing things that are not nefarious as though they're sinister here and it's a little odd. Words like "orbiting" add a negative shadow over innocent things. Why can't the people just be being friendly? Why does it have to be something nefarious when it's just as likely to be an exuberant welcoming atmosphere. And isn't the female player a nerd if they're participating in esports too? What's wrong with a nerd being approached by other nerds? Are they not a nerd by definition cause they're female or what?McElroy said:
Nothing wrong with it, but it's still a thing she would just have to accept. Most if not all of her peers would be men, but it wouldn't be like that in traditional sports, for example. One specific thing about the attention is that at some point these guys will ask her out (this is teenagers we're talking about here). How do they deal with that? Can they avoid drama? It's another issue that a dude just doesn't have to deal with at all. Couples that are aspiring to become pro can't stay together for long because of their different skill progression and the fact that serious teams will view them as individuals instead of a couple.Dreiko said:
Well, I am highly critical of the disproportionate amount of attention women get and the "power" they wield in male-dominated spaces like game livestreaming. This hypothetical aspiring female pro would have to "aggressively not care" about that, and only focus on being a pro. Sure, guys are just being friendly, but it's a much different type of friendly that they are towards each other. In gaming, a girl is approachable and relateable just for being a girl who plays the same games the guys do.
No, you don't have to be a nerd to be into esports or play a game like OW on a high level. The term has been diluted. The old stereotype certainly keeps a lot of women away from computers and serious gaming.
What I've been saying here is on top of that.
I assure you a lot of guys would love for their gaming prowess to be tied to their perceived attractiveness to the opposite sex. Especially as it used to back in the day be (and still today to some people) tied to the exact opposite. And yeah you will have guys hitting on you but isn't that normal for any person in that age group? As for the couples thing, that's definitely true but I fail to see how that's something that impacts female gamers unless they're a lesbian couple or something cause that's a factor that impacts the guy in the couple similarly.McElroy said:
The attention is proportionate to the novelty provided by the attention-getter. Like, you know that furry guy who plays fighting games? Sonic fox? Yeah, he's a furry and he plays in tourneys in a fursuit and wins quite a few of them too. He gets a ton more attention than other similarly skilled players cause he's a furry...and that's the most normal thing in the world cause nobody else is fighting inside the suite of a big blue wolf or whatever the hell that thing is.
The old definition would make anybody who even played games a nerd, never mind being good enough to make a living off of them. I dunno what definition you're using but I assure you everyone who plays videogames for thousands of hours on end in order to get good enough to become a pro is a nerd.
Let's not kid ourselves into thinking that being a woman who plays games, let alone being a woman who's incredibly good at a game, only invites men who are friendly and cordial to comment on your playing or leaving messages for you on social media or e-mail. If there's one thing that's consistent in the stories of women who have become, or nearly become, e-sport pros is that a lot of men will not take you seriously, will consider you fair game for sexual comments or will become ragingly misogynistic the moment you beat them or their favorite e-sporter. Eurogamer [https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-01-05-overwatch-team-discovers-their-female-player-was-an-imposter] included some female gamers reaction to the story and you'll notice that their reaction isn't "Oh, he couldn't handle all the perks of being a female gamer". In fact, their reaction is that Punisher can just opt out of all the shit they have to put up with just for being women who plays games. On top of this, the problem of female gamers being harassed due to their gender is well studied [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11469-018-9962-0] by now. From that studies background: "players report that less experienced/lower-ranking players, women, and gay players often receive a hostile reaction from male gamers (Fletcher 2012; Kasumovic and Kuznekoff 2015; Salter and Blodgett 2012). "McElroy said:
I was referring to the admirers that are sure to pop up, but a few bad apples can ruin the experience, that's true. My take was from the perspective that there would be no doubters or harassers and the way to the top of OW (most other team games apply here too) would be kinda clear. I know women quit gaming due to harassment much more often than men.Gethsemani said:
This isn't "aggressively not caring". This is the opposite. This Ellie-Punisher story is completely irrelevant to everybody else except the type of active Twitter-feminists featured in this story. There are different levels I'm talking about here: somebody who aspires to become a professional gamer isn't just "a person who plays games". Neither is somebody who wants to get their gaming stream to Twitch partnership. The latter is much easier if you're a girl (you will be pandering to nerds, but still), while the former is harder. Thus at any point a woman can switch from the former to the latter and probably be more successful.
You defend against stuff I didn't say or at least didn't mean. You seem to think that it doesn't matter if people treat a person *who is seriously trying to become an e-sports pro* differently not because of their great skill or determination, but because they are a girl. It definitely matters. Furries are weirdos and a fursuited gamer wears it because they want to, and if they one day get tired of the calls to "Netflix and yiff" they can just throw the suit away. The deterrents I've mentioned that female aspiring pros have to face are not necessarily toxic, but they are disincentivizing.Dreiko said:
If this was the actual cause of this social experiment, the shit is about to get all the more deep and foul.Silentpony said:
I watched a YouTube video that said that's what happened. It was a player named Punisher, who was in the Top500 but never got on a pro-team. He and the woman who played Ellie made the Ellie player up, Punisher played, the woman pretended, and soon Ellie was in the Top500 and was offered a spot on SecondWind as their first female player.ObsidianJones said:
That's absolutely hilarious.Silentpony said:
I'm not sure? But as you say the disconnect between player and chat was one of the clues. As Meiam posted up above she would complain about lag or something, when during the stream there wasn't any. Like it wasn't a responsive commentary.IceForce said:
No no, as a male player he was already in the Top 500 but never got pro-team attention. So he made a fake female account, played, got into the top 500 for a second time and was almost instantly offered a spot in a pro-team.trunkage said:
I dunno, maybe he was never picked up because he seemed like the kind of dick that would pull something like this. Just a hunch.Silentpony said:
altnameJag said:
