Alleged harassment, threats of doxxing, hitpiece journalism, 'fake' gamer girls... Oh my!

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

Once again I'm reminded why I only play single player games in offline mode. Know how much shit I have to deal with? None. Because I learned years ago that playing online multiplayer is basically inviting people to fling shit at you and suck all the fun out of games for you and everyone around them.

The e"sports" community is a fucking shitshow, it's the pinnacle of No Fun Allowed gaming where everything is SERIOUS and an even bigger invitation for people to act like elitist cock wombles and gatekeep their chosen game like they're some lord-high demigod spergmeister whos authority on said game is infallible.

I'm glad this happened because it means I get to sit and watch something I hate consume itself further while enjoying my game-bubble where I can play stuff I like without someone 4000 miles away dictating to me how I should be having fun.

It's more that it's more fun to play in that way for a certain segment of the population. The kind of fun you have by pitting thousands of hours of work at getting good at a game against someone else who also has spent similar amounts of time and effort is on a different scale than just playing single player or vs the AI.


The whole "no fun allowed" thing is a meme by those who are not among the group that finds what I described fun, not a notion actually shared by competitive people.

No, I get the attraction. I used to play the Warmachine/Hordes TTG competitively when I first started because that's what the game was for. I even placed 6th in a national event once. But every competitive community I've seen is generally an awful, toxic cesspool. Wether its video games or tabletop the "tournament level" always sucks the fun out of it and ruins everything.

Warmachine/Hordes is in a pretty dire way now and probably going to die in a few year now and a lot of the reason for that is because the designers focussed to heavily on catering to the super serious tournament players.

 

[CritialGaming]

If nothing else, this highlights the absurdity of outrage culture. This group plants this whole fake account and set up, then when people call it out for being bullshit, journalists jump on it screaming sexism.

Is game journalism the only form of journalism that actively tries to talk shit about the people that READ their articles? As much as I hate Fox News, CNN, and all the others, I've never actually seem them call their viewers racists or sexist shits.

What can we do to stop this do you think? Most of the outrage is fabricated, and nearly all the statistics that suggest women get "harrassed" in online gaming are very heavily skewed. So what villain exactly are we trying to combat? What people are we trying to purge from the community, because quite frankly I don't see any problem.

People talk shit in online games, but they talk shit to you regardless of gender. It's honestly part of online gaming, and it isn't even really exclusive to that. Look at professional sports, Lebron James, Steph Curry, Nick Foles, etc etc etc, professional athletes get heckled all the time. It's part of the game in a way, fans heckle to try and get into the mind of the players in order to help their team win. Online shit talk is the same thing, drive your opponent into a rage so that they make mistakes and you can beat them easier.

The point is this shit talking is not exclusive to a person based on gender. While the insults themselves might be sexist in nature, it is only really to serve in getting into the opponent's head. And yes, sometimes those things can go too far I 100% agree with that. However there are literally tons of ways to turn someone off. Mute the player, disable enemy voice coms, ignore the chat box. Every game has ways of allowing each player to control who and what they hear, and there are other ways even beyond what the game can offer to allow you not deal with it.

So I cannot see for the life of me, how the hell this is even a problem. This fake account kinda reveals the real situation in a lot of ways. It's a fabrication at best, and an exhaggeration at worse.

I do not believe the gaming community is actively trying to keep anyone out based on anything, not gender, not sexuality (a gay furry black kid won E-sports player of the year after all, and as awkward as his speech was I didn't see any online hate towards him so what's that tell you), nothing. The game's "media" like to report how awful it is to be a girl gamer, but while they try to say it's because sexism, there is almost ALWAYS something else to the story.

They try to label us as a toxic terrible community, but what I see is a community that calls out shitty people for being shitty regardless of gender or sexuality.

Moral of the story, don't be a shit person.

 

[Saelune]

This whole thing is stupid.

Sexism is bad.

Lying is bad.

Overwatch is bad.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

What can we do to stop this do you think? Most of the outrage is fabricated, and nearly all the statistics that suggest women get "harrassed" in online gaming are very heavily skewed. So what villain exactly are we trying to combat? What people are we trying to purge from the community, because quite frankly I don't see any problem.

The point is this shit talking is not exclusive to a person based on gender. While the insults themselves might be sexist in nature, it is only really to serve in getting into the opponent's head. And yes, sometimes those things can go too far I 100% agree with that. However there are literally tons of ways to turn someone off. Mute the player, disable enemy voice coms, ignore the chat box. Every game has ways of allowing each player to control who and what they hear, and there are other ways even beyond what the game can offer to allow you not deal with it.

I do not believe the gaming community is actively trying to keep anyone out based on anything, not gender, not sexuality (a gay furry black kid won E-sports player of the year after all, and as awkward as his speech was I didn't see any online hate towards him so what's that tell you), nothing.

Yeah, that's how things are but maybe it's not how they should be (or how they could be with a bit of work). Being "outraged" at stuff like this is the wrong way to go about it, anyway.

And there's just no way a gay furry doesn't get shit for being one. It's one of those things that should be bullied out of society after all.

The difference is that he's actually good at the games he plays so he doesn't need to use the shit he gets as an excuse for why he is being "kept out" of e-sports, cause he won DBFZ at evo and a bunch of other tourneys. Also his speech was kinda cringey cause he's rather young (21 or something I believe).


The reason why people complain is that they are not anywhere near as good at the games they play and don't wanna take responsibility for their sub-par play so they come up with excuses as to why it's not actually their fault that they're not making it but it's the community's fault. It also has to do with the genre, since fighting games don't have team-centered gameplay, so you can't make excuses and do well in fighting games, you can't blame your team for losing. If you lose, it's 100% on you. That way, if you win the tourney, all the respect is 100% on you as well and no matter how anti-furry people are they are forced to respect you if they wish to honor the game they love and most of us do.


There may be some structural issues in team shooters that make such a thing harder to pull off and I only have experience with fighters on a competitive level so I can't speak to the details as much but I think if those people who complain instead just practiced for 12 hours a day like a normal person their issues would, if not dissolve, cease mattering to them as much.

 

[Worgen]

I thought the reason they did it wasnt a social experiment but because the dude couldn't get on a pro-team as a dude, but because of inclusivity initiatives, as a woman gamer he could?

If this was the actual cause of this social experiment, the shit is about to get all the more deep and foul.

I watched a YouTube video that said that's what happened. It was a player named Punisher, who was in the Top500 but never got on a pro-team. He and the woman who played Ellie made the Ellie player up, Punisher played, the woman pretended, and soon Ellie was in the Top500 and was offered a spot on SecondWind as their first female player.
That was the whole point. It was basically a dude pretending to be a woman so he could compete in the women's Olympics, because he never qualified for the men's trials.

I'll see if I can find the YouTube vid...

Okay, I don't understand. He pretended to be a woman AND THAT made him play so well he went up 500 spots? How did pretending to be female make him jump up so many spot?

No no, as a male player he was already in the Top 500 but never got pro-team attention. So he made a fake female account, played, got into the top 500 for a second time and was almost instantly offered a spot in a pro-team.

I don't really get this as actual motivation. I mean wouldn't he have to show up for a live competition at some point? Seems like messing with the rather fragile emotional nature of the community makes more sense.

 

[CaitSeith]

This is dumb. On one side is like a singer who doesn't record their own music; and on the other is like a singer who doesn't record their own music. In the former, people call them a fraud; and in the latter, people don't mind the illusion and just enjoy the song.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I thought the reason they did it wasnt a social experiment but because the dude couldn't get on a pro-team as a dude, but because of inclusivity initiatives, as a woman gamer he could?

If this was the actual cause of this social experiment, the shit is about to get all the more deep and foul.

I watched a YouTube video that said that's what happened. It was a player named Punisher, who was in the Top500 but never got on a pro-team. He and the woman who played Ellie made the Ellie player up, Punisher played, the woman pretended, and soon Ellie was in the Top500 and was offered a spot on SecondWind as their first female player.
That was the whole point. It was basically a dude pretending to be a woman so he could compete in the women's Olympics, because he never qualified for the men's trials.

I'll see if I can find the YouTube vid...

Okay, I don't understand. He pretended to be a woman AND THAT made him play so well he went up 500 spots? How did pretending to be female make him jump up so many spot?

No no, as a male player he was already in the Top 500 but never got pro-team attention. So he made a fake female account, played, got into the top 500 for a second time and was almost instantly offered a spot in a pro-team.

I don't really get this as actual motivation. I mean wouldn't he have to show up for a live competition at some point? Seems like messing with the rather fragile emotional nature of the community makes more sense.

I'm not sure. One of the reasons they were found out was because after Ellie was signed up, 'she' didn't give her full name, like all other pro-players do.

 

[Saelune]

And there's just no way a gay furry doesn't get shit for being one. It's one of those things that should be bullied out of society after all.

Quoting you to point out you said this.

 

[Worgen]

And there's just no way a gay furry doesn't get shit for being one. It's one of those things that should be bullied out of society after all.

Quoting you to point out you said this.

Hes probably just mad that one of the best fighting game players in the world is a gay furry that won't return his calls.

 

[CaitSeith]

And there's just no way a gay furry doesn't get shit for being one. It's one of those things that should be bullied out of society after all.

Quoting you to point out you said this.

I'd like to think he worded it wrong, but still... yikes! That's no good reason to bull him out (society already is shitty enough without such bulling).

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I wanted to quote McElroy but I can't.

Did someone actually state that Bullying is a plausible method for social change? One to actually be used? Really?

Seems the experiment was a success if it riled up this many people

We don't know of that yet.

If Silentpony is correct that Punisher was considered an average and run-of-the-mill gamer to be overlooked by Professional Teams as a Guy, but stellar enough playing the same way as a female to be scouted for a professional team, this is will be considered a tactical advantage akin to discovering Gun Powder for the Anti-SJW group.

And that's bad. That would be really, really bad. It is my fear that this would be worse than Gamergate simply because in their minds, they will have tangible proof that their best efforts will mean nothing for them simply for being a guy. With their persecution complex, That will be igniting that Gun Powder I previously spoke of.

Strap in, everyone. We could be going into the Suck.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I wanted to quote McElroy but I can't.

Did someone actually state that Bullying is a plausible method for social change? One to actually be used? Really?

Seems the experiment was a success if it riled up this many people

We don't know of that yet.

If Silentpony is correct that Punisher was considered an average and run-of-the-mill gamer to be overlooked by Professional Teams as a Guy, but stellar enough playing the same way as a female to be scouted for a professional team, this is will be considered a tactical advantage akin to discovering Gun Powder for the Anti-SJW group.

And that's bad. That would be really, really bad. It is my fear that this would be worse than Gamergate simply because in their minds, they will have tangible proof that their best efforts will mean nothing for them simply for being a guy. With their persecution complex, That will be igniting that Gun Powder I previously spoke of.

Strap in, everyone. We could be going into the Suck.

That's what I'm worried about too. It'd be seen as video game affirmative action. That gaming girls, at least the professional ones, are only as good as the run-of-the-mill high end boys and are only on teams because of their gender.
And as you said it'd make a lot of male gamers feel like they're being overlooked for not as good female gamers, simply because of gender diversity. And that's gonna cause a whole fuck ton of resentment and backlash, and I couldn't honestly say I'd blame them.

 

[McElroy]

For the record, I was making a much, MUCH, milder anti-furry joke that I actually wanted to, because I knew it would be out of line. But hey, the intention matters, so I guess I deserve the warning.

And there's just no way a gay furry doesn't get shit for being one. It's one of those things that should be bullied out of society after all.

Quoting you to point out you said this.

Hes probably just mad that one of the best fighting game players in the world is a gay furry that won't return his calls.

Damn. Some blades cut right to the bone. He said he was tired, okay?

snip

Yeah, I can't fault the guy for being the best, furry or not. Even if I wouldn't take him seriously anywhere else, I would have to in fighting games.

 

[Trunkage]

I thought the reason they did it wasnt a social experiment but because the dude couldn't get on a pro-team as a dude, but because of inclusivity initiatives, as a woman gamer he could?

If this was the actual cause of this social experiment, the shit is about to get all the more deep and foul.

I watched a YouTube video that said that's what happened. It was a player named Punisher, who was in the Top500 but never got on a pro-team. He and the woman who played Ellie made the Ellie player up, Punisher played, the woman pretended, and soon Ellie was in the Top500 and was offered a spot on SecondWind as their first female player.
That was the whole point. It was basically a dude pretending to be a woman so he could compete in the women's Olympics, because he never qualified for the men's trials.

I'll see if I can find the YouTube vid...

Okay, I don't understand. He pretended to be a woman AND THAT made him play so well he went up 500 spots? How did pretending to be female make him jump up so many spot?

No no, as a male player he was already in the Top 500 but never got pro-team attention. So he made a fake female account, played, got into the top 500 for a second time and was almost instantly offered a spot in a pro-team.

So a couple of things come to mind. If you see a new player achieve an insane amount of success, wouldn't you immediately pick them up. They have a greater potential than most other players as they could get more training to be better.

Also, if this guy was top 10, wouldn't that be an automatic pick up? Unless he has some socially unacceptable actions. I remember Total Biscuit discussing how his Korean team was in some ways a terrible buy becuase persoanlities matter to generate interest and sponsorship. So he could be a bad buy, annoying fans and sponsors maybe?

I dont understand how this social experiment was going to work. Were they going to show everyone when they got on stage. This has nothing to do with women being good in gaming

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I thought the reason they did it wasnt a social experiment but because the dude couldn't get on a pro-team as a dude, but because of inclusivity initiatives, as a woman gamer he could?

If this was the actual cause of this social experiment, the shit is about to get all the more deep and foul.

I watched a YouTube video that said that's what happened. It was a player named Punisher, who was in the Top500 but never got on a pro-team. He and the woman who played Ellie made the Ellie player up, Punisher played, the woman pretended, and soon Ellie was in the Top500 and was offered a spot on SecondWind as their first female player.
That was the whole point. It was basically a dude pretending to be a woman so he could compete in the women's Olympics, because he never qualified for the men's trials.

I'll see if I can find the YouTube vid...

Okay, I don't understand. He pretended to be a woman AND THAT made him play so well he went up 500 spots? How did pretending to be female make him jump up so many spot?

No no, as a male player he was already in the Top 500 but never got pro-team attention. So he made a fake female account, played, got into the top 500 for a second time and was almost instantly offered a spot in a pro-team.

So a couple of things come to mind. If you see a new player achieve an insane amount of success, wouldn't you immediately pick them up. They have a greater potential than most other players as they could get more training to be better.

Also, if this guy was top 10, wouldn't that be an automatic pick up? Unless he has some socially unacceptable actions. I remember Total Biscuit discussing how his Korean team was in some ways a terrible buy becuase persoanlities matter to generate interest and sponsorship. So he could be a bad buy, annoying fans and sponsors maybe?

I dont understand how this social experiment was going to work. Were they going to show everyone when they got on stage. This has nothing to do with women being good in gaming

Well the very fact the player was faked shows you shouldn't just snatch up a rising star. They could be a cheater or fake.
And from what I can tell Punisher wasn't in the Top 10, but the top 500. Basically in the pro-team recruitment farm, but he wasn't getting recruited. So when the Ellie player came along she was snatched up, without the vetting process, even though she was just as skilled as Punisher.

but you're right it does seem like it wasn't fully thought through.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

Seems the experiment was a success if it riled up this many people

Even IF it was "just a social experiment, bro", the question remains: A success for whom?

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Seems the experiment was a success if it riled up this many people

Even IF it was "just a social experiment, bro", the question remains: A success for whom?

Fuckwits Incorporated?

 

[CaitSeith]

Seems the experiment was a success if it riled up this many people

Is that what defines its success tho?