... Am I actually starting to ENJOY anime?

[moretimethansense]

I left it simply because we refuse to regulate our own. That and those peopel who debate Dubs vs Subs ad nausem annoy me

Aug, in the name of God-Kira himself, that annoys the wits outta me.

"subz alwayz are teh sukz cuz they cut owt all da blud n' cussin'. Plus, anyding not wapaneez is gay!"
"I h8 seein' animoo in jap! Reedin' subz maek mah eyez hurt, and al da gurlz soun' like dey habin' orgasims!"

Makes me sick to my stomach quite frankly. How something so trivial causes such a fuss among its fanbase is beyond me.

Largely because most dubs are crap.

Dialogue is often altered either to censor it someewhat or to remove any trace of its Japanese origins.
On top of which most dubs were done on the cheap by people that honestly didn't care.
Check out Garzy's Wing if you want to see just how bad it can get.

Most of the time the voice actors they get simply don't suit the charecters that they are voicing and to be frank, most americans can't pronounce Japanese names to save themselves.

Add to which that Japanese phases tend to have a very different sylable count to the English equvelent and you end up ith a lot of high spee diaalogue that has little to no emotion or some. slow . speaking filled with... pauses 8ugh8 and awkward grunts.

Frankly after all that it's amazing that we get any good dubs at all.
And there are some good ones, some merely adequate ones and the odd really good ones.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

Congratulations on finding a medium which tells stories in a different style.

To me, someone saying "I don't like anime/manga" is like saying "I don't like books/films", it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Get Backers

Didn't the end of that show frustrate you? Because it seriously frustrated me.

YES, very much so! That's how you can tell if somebody has seen Getbackers or not. If in a "Worst anime ending thread", just about everyone who has seen it will say Getbackers. Left a bittersweet aftertase, but still overall enjoyable.

Enjoyable? Definitely, Ginji was as hilarious as Vash from Trigun, and when he got serious it was a sight to behold, but I actually think that a good ending would have actually put that series in my top ten (possibly). It was so enjoyable, then the ending just slapped me in the face then stuck it's fingers in my plate of food.

I said to a friend "I want to punch something". He said "punch everything". So I did. It helped.

I still haven't read the manga, but there was a lot more story even beyond what the ending tiptoed around (parents?). I'm going to have to pick it up sometime.

 

[sumanoskae]

Well, if you play nothing but Madden and Wii Sports it's no wonder if you don't think gaming is artistically impressive.

Quality doesn't sell, you have to look to find it, just like games.

Anime is just a medium, in fact, it's a sub-genre of a medium. You don't like something because it's of a certain medium, don't limit yourself, there are probably stories across all mediums you'd enjoy

 

[John Poling II]

- Ergo Proxy (will melt your brain)

Aw hell yeah. Episodes 11 and 14, bitchez.

I feel the need to start an "Am I actually starting to ENJOY My Little Pony?" thread, but nah, that's been done too many times recently.

If I think Dragonball Z is terrible, should I bother with anime at all?

Of course you should. Dragonball Z is a kid's anime and it's terrible compared to legit stuff. Start with Higurashi.

I believe Higurashi may be a bit hardcore for the newly initiated.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

You are one of us now. There is no going back.

But I do not wish to serve under the rising sun! XD

 

[ChocoFace]

You are one of us now. There is no going back.

But I do not wish to serve under the rising sun! XD

Resistance is futile.
Your idols will be everything kawaii,
your pillows will be hentai,
your leisure time shall only be known as praying to the gods of anime.
You will forget the word "wash" and only shave once a month.
That is the way of a true sage, the way to nirvana.

 

[BX3]

I left it simply because we refuse to regulate our own. That and those peopel who debate Dubs vs Subs ad nausem annoy me

Aug, in the name of God-Kira himself, that annoys the wits outta me.

"subz alwayz are teh sukz cuz they cut owt all da blud n' cussin'. Plus, anyding not wapaneez is gay!"
"I h8 seein' animoo in jap! Reedin' subz maek mah eyez hurt, and al da gurlz soun' like dey habin' orgasims!"

Makes me sick to my stomach quite frankly. How something so trivial causes such a fuss among its fanbase is beyond me.

Largely because most dubs are crap.

Dialogue is often altered either to censor it someewhat or to remove any trace of its Japanese origins.
On top of which most dubs were done on the cheap by people that honestly didn't care.
Check out Garzy's Wing if you want to see just how bad it can get.

Most of the time the voice actors they get simply don't suit the charecters that they are voicing and to be frank, most americans can't pronounce Japanese names to save themselves.

Add to which that Japanese phases tend to have a very different sylable count to the English equvelent and you end up ith a lot of high spee diaalogue that has little to no emotion or some. slow . speaking filled with... pauses 8ugh8 and awkward grunts.

Frankly after all that it's amazing that we get any good dubs at all.
And there are some good ones, some merely adequate ones and the odd really good ones.

This is a mentality that holds some truth and is for the most part accurate... in the 90s.

Since then, dubbing companies have slowly but surely caught on the the fact that "hey, maybe the fans of this medium actually enjoy good voice acting and writing!" After hardily laughing for a few minutes, they put this theory into practice and lo and behold, anime dubbing as a whole improved significantly. The actors are doing their jobs well, the prodution has improved, the writing is alot smarter, and the "changing dialogue to cloak the show's origin" thing just plain isn't true anymore (Lucky Star's a prime example of this).

See, thing is, said companies have realized that this medium was growing in popularity and as a result began treating the shows they licensed with a lot more care, making more efforts to counter the handicaps that hinder the quality of the show. I mean, okay, sure we still get the occasional dubs that range from mediocre (Bleach, Kekkaishi) to just plain bad (Princess Tutu, Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds), but these days for every one average or poor dub, there's atleast 2 more good or even great dubs. Ouran, Full Metal Alchemist, Death Note, One Piece, Code Geass, Paranoia Agent, Gunslinger Girl, Suzumiya, the list goes on. Hell, even a show like DragonBall is getting better treatment. Hit up Youtube and look at some Z/Kai comparison vids. The difference in quality is unreal.

The bad to good ratio has pretty much switched. Not taking away from the work of Aya Hirano, Masako Nozawa or Keppei motherfuckin' Yamaguchi and the people that prefer these voices, but the "most dubz syuck" line just doesn't hold much weight anymore. You don't gotta love 'em, but it's rude to ignore how much they've improved.

 

[game-lover]

I don't know if anyone has done this joke yet 'cause I'm too lazy to read past the first page... Anyway...


YES! Join us, friend. Be one with the fanboys and fangirls. Join us... *spooky chant*


But you shouldn't be ashamed though. Anime is awesome. All you gotta do is find the right ones is all. There's all kinds of shows for all kinds of people and age ranges too.

 

[moretimethansense]

I left it simply because we refuse to regulate our own. That and those peopel who debate Dubs vs Subs ad nausem annoy me

Aug, in the name of God-Kira himself, that annoys the wits outta me.

"subz alwayz are teh sukz cuz they cut owt all da blud n' cussin'. Plus, anyding not wapaneez is gay!"
"I h8 seein' animoo in jap! Reedin' subz maek mah eyez hurt, and al da gurlz soun' like dey habin' orgasims!"

Makes me sick to my stomach quite frankly. How something so trivial causes such a fuss among its fanbase is beyond me.

Largely because most dubs are crap.

Dialogue is often altered either to censor it someewhat or to remove any trace of its Japanese origins.
On top of which most dubs were done on the cheap by people that honestly didn't care.
Check out Garzy's Wing if you want to see just how bad it can get.

Most of the time the voice actors they get simply don't suit the charecters that they are voicing and to be frank, most americans can't pronounce Japanese names to save themselves.

Add to which that Japanese phases tend to have a very different sylable count to the English equvelent and you end up ith a lot of high spee diaalogue that has little to no emotion or some. slow . speaking filled with... pauses 8ugh8 and awkward grunts.

Frankly after all that it's amazing that we get any good dubs at all.
And there are some good ones, some merely adequate ones and the odd really good ones.

This is a mentality that holds some truth and is for the most part accurate... in the 90s.

Since then, dubbing companies have slowly but surely caught on the the fact that "hey, maybe the fans of this medium actually enjoy good voice acting and writing!" After hardily laughing for a few minutes, they put this theory into practice and lo and behold, anime dubbing as a whole improved significantly. The actors are doing their jobs well, the prodution has improved, the writing is alot smarter, and the "changing dialogue to cloak the show's origin" thing just plain isn't true anymore (Lucky Star's a prime example of this).

See, thing is, said companies have realized that this medium was growing in popularity and as a result began treating the shows they licensed with a lot more care, making more efforts to counter the handicaps that hinder the quality of the show. I mean, okay, sure we still get the occasional dubs that range from mediocre (Bleach, Kekkaishi) to just plain bad (Princess Tutu, Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds), but these days for every one average or poor dub, there's atleast 2 more good or even great dubs. Ouran, Full Metal Alchemist, Death Note, One Piece, Code Geass, Paranoia Agent, Gunslinger Girl, Suzumiya, the list goes on. Hell, even a show like DragonBall is getting better treatment. Hit up Youtube and look at some Z/Kai comparison vids. The difference in quality is unreal.

The bad to good ratio has pretty much switched. Not taking away from the work of Aya Hirano, Masako Nozawa or Keppei motherfuckin' Yamaguchi and the people that prefer these voices, but the "most dubz syuck" line just doesn't hold much weight anymore. You don't gotta love 'em, but it's rude to ignore how much they've improved.

A few things.

1. I am fully aware that there are good dubs, point of fact I sai it in my post.

2. Unless every bad anime dub has been burned the ratio has NOT shifted, at least not yet.

3. I aknowlage that they are improving, I though that I'd metioned that my self, but they are still not as good (IMO) primarily because even the good actors tend to mispronounce Japanese words and names, plus the writing is still rife with wolleyisms, though I'm aware that at times that's a necessery evil.

4. Finally the day of bad dubs is faaar from over. *shudder*.

 

[blankedboy]

- Ergo Proxy (will melt your brain)

Aw hell yeah. Episodes 11 and 14, bitchez.

I feel the need to start an "Am I actually starting to ENJOY My Little Pony?" thread, but nah, that's been done too many times recently.

If I think Dragonball Z is terrible, should I bother with anime at all?

Of course you should. Dragonball Z is a kid's anime and it's terrible compared to legit stuff. Start with Higurashi.

I believe Higurashi may be a bit hardcore for the newly initiated.

Well, it wasn't for me. I think it's the hardcore-ness that really got me into anime in the first place, then I mellowed down and failed to watch all of Texhnolyze 'cos it's even more brainmelting than Ergo Proxy -.-

 

[Busdriver580]

I never really considered Anime to be essentially different from any other type of show or movie. That said the genre suffers from conventions.

 

[BX3]

A few things.

1. I am fully aware that there are good dubs, point of fact I sai it in my post.

2. Unless every bad anime dub has been burned the ratio has NOT shifted, at least not yet.

3. I aknowlage that they are improving, I though that I'd metioned that my self, but they are still not as good (IMO) primarily because even the good actors tend to mispronounce Japanese words and names, plus the writing is still rife with wolleyisms, though I'm aware that at times that's a necessery evil.

4. Finally the day of bad dubs is faaar from over. *shudder*.

1.) Understood. A mistake on my part. I viewed "It's a surprise we get any good dubs at all" with more of a negative connotation than you probably intended.

2.) Would "evened out" be more accurate?

3.) Heh, Sorry, it wasn't very clear, my bad. As for the rest of that comment, we're split.
For the 1st part: I'd like to state my views regarding pronunc, but I don't wanna make assumptions on what you mean, so you'll have to elaborate.
For the 2nd part: lol, well I wouldn't call it an "evil", but I would say it's necessary given the structure of the Japanese language. I will give you that it can get out of hand, even today.

4.) Another split. Not gonna lie, Yui's voice made my head hurt. However, it's always been my belief that one poor voice does not a bad dub/show make. If that were true, I'd despise JP One Piece. And that's my 2nd favorite show

 

[MadMage]

I think the whole DUB war is over how it is interpreted. If you SUB Japanese then you can curse and stuff but if its in English then the DUB has to generally follow the lame rules of keeping it "appropriate"... any other reason is the plain fact some people cant read that fast.

 

[moretimethansense]

1.) Understood. A mistake on my part. I viewed "It's a surprise we get any good dubs at all" with more of a negative connotation than you probably intended.

2.) Would "evened out" be more accurate?

3.) Heh, Sorry, it wasn't very clear, my bad. As for the rest of that comment, we're split.
For the 1st part: I'd like to state my views regarding pronunc, but I don't wanna make assumptions on what you mean, so you'll have to elaborate.
For the 2nd part: lol, well I wouldn't call it an "evil", but I would say it's necessary given the structure of the Japanese language. I will give you that it can get out of hand, even today.

4.) Another split. Not gonna lie, Yui's voice made my head hurt. However, it's always been my belief that one poor voice does not a bad dub/show make. If that were true, I'd despise JP One Piece. And that's my 2nd favorite show

1. I meant it as to say, since dubbing is so difficult to do right, especially with the drastic differances between languages, that it's unsuprisintg that it so often goes wrong.

2. A litte but, I'd say the ratio is still 30% terrible 40% bad 20% acceptable 7% good and 3% better than the origional.
And I take those figures from absolutely nowhere, I'm sure for some people the ratio is different for each section.

3a. I mean they tend to overemphasize parts of words, or pronounce sylables incorrectly, it may not bug most people but it drives me up the wall.

3b. I more mean when they add slang in, use translations for words that shouldn't really be translated and drop or change honouriffics, if it's set in Japan it's really fucking jarring to hear a teacher (for example) refered to as Mr./Mrs. whatever.
Also if they are going to do it any way, why do they translate Onii-san in to Big Brother?
I'm aware it's the literal translation but who in the english speaking world refers to their eldar siblings as big brother/sister all the damn time?
They should either leave it as is, or have them use their names, depending on the series, the location and the charecter.
Though at times it is done well.

4. I would agree, except for when it's one of the main charecters!
As one that love his ears I would have to kill myself before listening to an entire series of that.

 

[GaryH]

...Anime is just a medium...

This.

Your post is the same as someone creating a post along the lines of "... Am I actually starting to ENJOY film/music/videogames?"

There will be anime that you like and that you don't like, which would probably go for everyone if people didn't refuse to watch it because they think all anime is the same.

As for the whole Dub vs Sub discussion, here's my two pence:

I tend to just ignore dubs entirely no matter how good they are. The original voices are what the creator intended for us to hear and I much prefer that. Also, bizarrely, my inability to understand the audio seems to be key to maintaining my suspension of disbelief in a lot of anime series. The moment I switch to the dub, I'm ripped out of the experience as I realise how silly the voice actors sound reading out some of the lines and saying each other's names; even in the highest quality dub. That's just me, though!

 

[Ice Car]

Wow, you make it sound like watching and liking anime is bad. I like to watch anime and do so all the time, but I'm not a raving, fanatical, OMG ANIME IS DA BEST!!!!, Cosplaying, everything in my room is anime, my life is anime, blah blah blah people.

 

[BX3]

1. I meant it as to say, since dubbing is so difficult to do right, especially with the drastic differances between languages, that it's unsuprisintg that it so often goes wrong.

2. A litte but, I'd say the ratio is still 30% terrible 40% bad 20% acceptable 7% good and 3% better than the origional.
And I take those figures from absolutely nowhere, I'm sure for some people the ratio is different for each section.

3a. I mean they tend to overemphasize parts of words, or pronounce sylables incorrectly, it may not bug most people but it drives me up the wall.

3b. I more mean when they add slang in, use translations for words that shouldn't really be translated and drop or change honouriffics, if it's set in Japan it's really fucking jarring to hear a teacher (for example) refered to as Mr./Mrs. whatever.
Also if they are going to do it any way, why do they translate Onii-san in to Big Brother?
I'm aware it's the literal translation but who in the english speaking world refers to their eldar siblings as big brother/sister all the damn time?
They should either leave it as is, or have them use their names, depending on the series, the location and the charecter.
Though at times it is done well.

4. I would agree, except for when it's one of the main charecters!
As one that love his ears I would have to kill myself before listening to an entire series of that.

1.Okee Dokee

2. Definitely, but I'll leave it alone.

3a. I thought so. I'll leave this one alone too, since you acknowledged that it's more of a peeve than a matter-of-fact issue.
3b. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this. I get what you mean, and admittedly, I too find it a bit confusing when honorifics are replaced (not when they're removed, though.). The big-brother thing is weird for me as well. At the same time, as a fandubber, I understand that stuff like that leaves a tough decision for the writer. Change 'em, and you incur the wrath of purists and make dialogue in Japan-set shows feel unnatural and forced. Keep 'em and the dialogue becomes slightly disjointed and still sounds unnatural or even a bit annoying (honorifics just don't fit well in our speech). Getting rid of them is just the easiest thing to do in that case.

4. Monkey D Luffy.

 

[Cpu46]

It makes sense that you didn't like anime if all you watched were Pokemon or Yu-gi-oh. They are, for the most part, just small parts of a much larger franchise.

I always find that the one or two season series are the best. They have a clear beginning middle and end instead of dragging forever like the big franchise animes.

Some good animes to watch are Eureka Seven, Gurren Lagann, Soul Eater, Tower of Duraga, Gundam, Letter Bee, and Heroman.

 

[moretimethansense]

3b. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this. I get what you mean, and admittedly, I too find it a bit confusing when honorifics are replaced (not when they're removed, though.). The big-brother thing is weird for me as well. At the same time, as a fandubber, I understand that stuff like that leaves a tough decision for the writer. Change 'em, and you incur the wrath of purists and make dialogue in Japan-set shows feel unnatural and forced. Keep 'em and the dialogue becomes slightly disjointed and still sounds unnatural or even a bit annoying (honorifics just don't fit well in our speech). Getting rid of them is just the easiest thing to do in that case.

4. Monkey D Luffy.

3b. Oddly enough I don't mind it when they leave 'em in especially in Japan set show, particularly because there's no real English Equivelant.
EG. There's a german word (that I'm not sure I'm spelling right) Backfeifangesicht, it means "A face badly in need of a fist" good luck translating THAT literally, this would be one case where a woolyism is needed.
I can only think of one woolyisms I personally like, it's in bleach oddly enough, Kenpachi's nickname Ken-Chan gets changed to kenny, while not quite as good as it loses some meaning it was a necessery cange after they removed the suffixes from their names.

The main problem with removing them is that a lot of the meaning and subtlety behind what they are saying is lost, at least when they're left in you can learn the meanings and glean some of what was intended.

But now I'm ranting.

4. 4kids Dub makes me cry, haven't seen the Funimation dub though, I got about fifty to eighty episodes in fansubbed then kinda lost interest.

As I said though if it's bad I'd probably have snapped long before I lost interest.

Well it's been fun discussing this with you, but I feel if we continue we'll just start repeating ourselves at this point.

In the end it comes down to personal preferance I guess, though I will say now that subs are now and will forever be better, I'm not gonna jump down somnebodies throat for prefering dubs.
Unless of course it's because they "don't like to read", god that annoys me.

It's just personal preference which one you want to watch, I just know that with a very few exceptions I'd personally rather watch subs that watch even a good dub.