Am I the only one who realizes achievements are worthless?
- Thread starter Fr]anc[is
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I completely agree. Developers (not all the time) seem to think that they aren't making a quality game. Or they realize they are making a game with little to no replay value. So they say "what could we do to make our game have a longer shelf life?.....EUREKA!!! Let's give them achievements and trophies. This will make them (the players) play our game longer, and make our players feel accomplished!!!"Fr said:
I play a game for the entertainment value. I could give a rats arse for trophies.
Achievements would be cooler if they offered an in-game reward, like an MMO giving extra experience for killing 50 goblins in a minute, or something.
there just there to keep us playing. it all comes down to the money. as it does with most things in the world...
but i still do it...son of a *****..
but i still do it...son of a *****..
I'm pretty sure everyone realized that the second hearing about it, but then they heard that clinking sound when they got their first achievement and were hooked...=/
lol
lol
Achievements are both a de-evolution and evolution for games.
Somewhere along the way, devs forgot people like scores. Achievements are the only way to keep any semblance of a score in most games. Heck, Halo 3 has the option to keep score, and they call that a metagame instead of just "keeping score".
Achievements are an evolution of scoring because it categorizes what you've done instead of just giving you 1 number. "Got 1st place in a race with a 10 second lead" Achievement is different than just getting 1st place. However, they're also a de-evolution because once you get that, there's absolutely no reward for playing more & getting 1st place with a 30 second lead. The score only goes so high, and it doesn't matter how good you are, your score can never get any better. Friendly competition is stifled. (Sure, there's online play, but you can't play with all your friends every time you play.)
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What I think makes more sense is a full collection of stats. Achievements could still be present, but the stats would keep detailed records. If you & your friend both get an Achievement for a stunt jump of 100 feet, how do you know who's better? You don't. If you have a stats sheet, it can tell you who jumped 105 feet, and who jumped 120 feet. You and your friends could compete much more with detailed stats. You would know who finished that race in 4min, 25seconds, and who finished it in 4min, 10seconds.
Also, I think stats, (especially racing games that track your best times,) should not only tell you when you beat your best time/distance/etc, but tell you by how much. Personally, I find that irritating to know I improved, but have no idea by how much. I've also played a few games less because I had no way of knowing if I did any better than my personal best.
Somewhere along the way, devs forgot people like scores. Achievements are the only way to keep any semblance of a score in most games. Heck, Halo 3 has the option to keep score, and they call that a metagame instead of just "keeping score".
Achievements are an evolution of scoring because it categorizes what you've done instead of just giving you 1 number. "Got 1st place in a race with a 10 second lead" Achievement is different than just getting 1st place. However, they're also a de-evolution because once you get that, there's absolutely no reward for playing more & getting 1st place with a 30 second lead. The score only goes so high, and it doesn't matter how good you are, your score can never get any better. Friendly competition is stifled. (Sure, there's online play, but you can't play with all your friends every time you play.)
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What I think makes more sense is a full collection of stats. Achievements could still be present, but the stats would keep detailed records. If you & your friend both get an Achievement for a stunt jump of 100 feet, how do you know who's better? You don't. If you have a stats sheet, it can tell you who jumped 105 feet, and who jumped 120 feet. You and your friends could compete much more with detailed stats. You would know who finished that race in 4min, 25seconds, and who finished it in 4min, 10seconds.
Also, I think stats, (especially racing games that track your best times,) should not only tell you when you beat your best time/distance/etc, but tell you by how much. Personally, I find that irritating to know I improved, but have no idea by how much. I've also played a few games less because I had no way of knowing if I did any better than my personal best.
I have a big car... cuz it's comfy,I find small cars hard to get into or out of... and they never have enough cargo space for stuff... or passenger room... try taking 5 friends to a movie in a prius... 5 full grown friends... all male... and 6feet tall at least... trust me... not fun, they don't all fit and being that my pals and i are all straight... sitting on the lap of another just feels... odd... anyhow y'know, it aint that... it's when its expensive... like a corvette or something that you gotta wonder if they're compensating for something cuz those are highly impractical... and cost too much...Krion_Vark said:
and as to topical stuff.. yes achievements show no real use... except for the random "hey i did something and got something to say i did it, cool." kinda thing... like a partial gratification... though useless they do add something on top of the gameplay since they keep track of the kinda stuff you've tried to do... and well succeeded at ingame.
I don't think that achievements are worthless, they add an element of challenge to games that I enjoy. Having said that, I have an appalling achievement score because I don't get to play much. (Especially now that my Xbox has died.) That doesn't mean I'm 'bad' at gaming, though my skills with Red Dead Redemption could be called horrendous (I'll digress) however, some gamers with much higher achievement scores will assume this is the case, unfairly. And as an earlier poster stated, some with the higher achievement scores can be very condescending to those of us with lower scores, but they can be ignored easily enough.
I try not to assume, one way or another and give other gamers the benefit of the doubt regardless of achievement score.
I try not to assume, one way or another and give other gamers the benefit of the doubt regardless of achievement score.
Achievements are far from worthless, which is to say they add value to the game. What is any game about other than achieving largely arbitrary goals? So why is it a bad thing to super add more in the form of achievements?
Achievements aren't about bragging rights or the size of your e-penis (and to be frank anyone who has that sort of mentality needs to grow up), they are about savouring the game, taking the time to master all it has to offer.. they add replayability and they add gameplay.
now I realise that not all gamers are going to appreciate that sort of approach to gaming, I am aware that there is a very large contingent of ADHD kids out there who twitch and foam at the mouth if they are expected to spend more than 5 hours completing a game.. but seriously, they can get bent
Edit: I've just realised I should point out that I'm a PC gamer and i'm talking about Steam achievements only.
Achievements aren't about bragging rights or the size of your e-penis (and to be frank anyone who has that sort of mentality needs to grow up), they are about savouring the game, taking the time to master all it has to offer.. they add replayability and they add gameplay.
now I realise that not all gamers are going to appreciate that sort of approach to gaming, I am aware that there is a very large contingent of ADHD kids out there who twitch and foam at the mouth if they are expected to spend more than 5 hours completing a game.. but seriously, they can get bent
Edit: I've just realised I should point out that I'm a PC gamer and i'm talking about Steam achievements only.
I honestly find the push for "achievements" everywhere - on xbox, trophies on PS3, WoW, even the badges on the Escapist - to be kind of sinister.
It feels like some marketing douchebag read some old psychology papers and realized they could keep people playing and re-playing by keying into the "instant gratification" node of people's brains. And then all the other marketing douchebags realized he was right and now "achievements" are everywhere.
Full disclosure: I'm a pretty casual WoW player, and I have nearly 9K achievement points in that game (for those who don't WoW, that's a very, very high score). And that's when it hit me - I had started playing the game for the thrill of that "*ding* Achievement Earned" message, like a mouse in some fucked-up lab experiment getting a piece of reward cheese, rather than just playing the game for the things I originally liked about it. Since then, the wool has come off my eyes so to speak, and I actively ignore these schemes.
It feels like some marketing douchebag read some old psychology papers and realized they could keep people playing and re-playing by keying into the "instant gratification" node of people's brains. And then all the other marketing douchebags realized he was right and now "achievements" are everywhere.
Full disclosure: I'm a pretty casual WoW player, and I have nearly 9K achievement points in that game (for those who don't WoW, that's a very, very high score). And that's when it hit me - I had started playing the game for the thrill of that "*ding* Achievement Earned" message, like a mouse in some fucked-up lab experiment getting a piece of reward cheese, rather than just playing the game for the things I originally liked about it. Since then, the wool has come off my eyes so to speak, and I actively ignore these schemes.
Totally agree, I kind of feel sorry for trophy/achievement whores. some of the are quite tricky to get and all they get is a little picture or a higher number.
I think it would be nice if they got monetary rewards, I think it would give some use to them anyway.
I think it would be nice if they got monetary rewards, I think it would give some use to them anyway.
I normally just play to finish a game.
My girlfriend however loves to go back over my games and polish off all the acheivments. Its not the number she cares about, its the completion of whatever insane challange or obscure goal the developers have chosen for you.
My girlfriend however loves to go back over my games and polish off all the acheivments. Its not the number she cares about, its the completion of whatever insane challange or obscure goal the developers have chosen for you.
They're proof that you kicked ass at something, therefore it gives you bragging rights and people can't say "Pics or it didn't happen" because, ************, it did happen!
Depends on the game. Something like Bioshock really didn't need achievements, and those little pop ups just pulled me out when I was getting sucked in.
In a game like team fortress some of the achievements can be kind of fun, like the taunt kill ones, or having pulled off an amazing feat. It depends on the tone of the game entirely, immersive games should ditch them, light hearted ones with achievements not tied to a story benefit from little extra challenges.
Achievements for beating a story mission is stupid.
Scene: Having just put a golf club in Andrew Ryan's face.
Me: Oh god, this is intense. And awesome.
Game: You have defeated Andrew ryan.
Me:...
No shit.
Me: Oh god, this is intense. And awesome.
Game: You have defeated Andrew ryan.
Me:...
No shit.
Achievements for beating a story mission is stupid.
I think they're totally pointless unless they're ADDING something to the game, or are ACTUALLY an achievement. If they're just there for completing levels or some stupid, arbitrary task, then they're pointless.
Gamerscore, however, is totally retarded.
Gamerscore, however, is totally retarded.
I like the noise and pop-up, and the fact that I have just gotten a headshot with a kukri as a heavy with my arms in my ears.Fr said: