America, A nation of bullies. Fighting back? Or moving backwards?

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

You didn't say bullying is natural you basically just said it was a learned and accepted social norm. It makes it the norm for our culture but it does not make it natural. Just because a child has not been taught right and wrong properly by their parents does make bullying natural. It is done to further that child wants and needs and makes that child feel good about itself at the expense of others. The reason they continue this is that they are not given the proper negative consequences of their actions early enough. If that means the bullied beats the bully into a bloody pulp then so be it.

No. The act of bullying is quite literally the application of specific evolutionary traits that humans possess. To be specific, our "tribe" mentality. Humans have a natural aversion to outsiders and a strong desire to fit in with their tribe. In schools, the tribe takes the form of cliques where students spend most of their time socializing within. Anyone not in the clique is therefore an outsider and unwelcome, which leads directly to them being bullied.

It is not good or just, but it is natural.

For the rest of it though, you are 100% correct. Bullies need to be taught that their actions are unacceptable. Unfortunately, there's only two ways that can be done. The first is to have the parent(s) step in and administer harsh punishments whenever they cross the line. This is extremely difficult since parents are rarely around their children when they choose to misbehave. The second (and I would say most effective) solution is for the bully's target to stand up for themselves.

What we need to do is get rid of the ridiculous mentality that gets kids punished for standing up for themselves. Our entire school system (at least in the US) is structured in such a way as to make the children as spineless as possible. We need to encourage students to stand up for themselves and to fight back against anyone who tries to victimize them.

The problem with that point is that it is not natural because tribes should not be kept so close together in close proximity. It is only accepted because we let it happen. If you want to go down that route since we are artificial bringing tribes together in the sense you want to refer to it as we should also seek to find artificial boundaries or no man's land between the cliques.

 

[zombiesinc]

I think a certain degree of bullying can help a child develop various skills to help adapt to the 'real world', but it's getting out of control.

Yes, suicide isn't the right answer, but I don't think that makes a child weak, pathetic or selfish. I'm growing tired of this indifferent, 'deal with it' attitude.

Something needs to be done, because bullying is getting out of hand. I'm not sitting on my hands insisting it should be abolished, but I'm not about to shrug my shoulders and say "deal with it" either.

 

[PeePantz]

The reason they continue this is that they are not given the proper negative consequences of their actions early enough. If that means the bullied beats the bully into a bloody pulp then so be it.

This is very true. This is all societies fault. No parent disciplines their child anymore for fear that discipline = abuse or will retard their progress. Every child is sheltered and protected to the point where teachers are handcuffed when dealing with them. There is no way for anyone but the parent to punish a child, and usually the punishment is something along the lines of a not-so-enforced "timeout". A parent will protect their child's self esteem and creativity to any means necessary even if it means the child is unruly. There's always adderall, anyways.
From the start, most children will learn to be manipulative assholes with no boundaries which will only intensify with age. You add puberty and the end result is bullying.

On the other end of the spectrum is the "victim", who has been raised in the same society but with slightly better parenting. However, in order to not stunt creativity or their self esteem, they've been told that whatever they do is "right". There's no adversity and will never be able to handle a bully.

Overall, America is raising a bunch of total cocks and pussies.

 

[Wardnath]

Yes, bullying is natural.

So is rape. So is murder.

And disease. And war.

 

[Wardnath]

Overall, America is raising a bunch of total cocks and pussies.

>implying that this is limited to America

 

[Lord Kloo]

Well here's my view on the matter:

People get bullied, there's no point in trying to stop it, unfortunately it's just one of things that stupid humans do, this does not prove that it is right however..This is something that I cannot stop and so it goes to some one else to actually solve the matter..
Oh and a note towards those macho fellows who believe that suicide is, 'weak and pathetic'. Let me ask you something, what exactly is wrong with suicide, if you ask me it's one of the bravest things a man can do, aside from the killing yourself part, most are also scared of what is beyond, it could be even worse than what they already go through, therefore do not knock suicide, it's a great option for avoiding pain.

Three last points:
A. - I'm English and so we're all a lot nicer over here,
B. - I was never bullied harshly at all so I sympathize with people who commit suicide,
C. - I believe that suicide is the way forward, if everyone did it then there would be no more problems, but thats a debate for another thread..

 

[manaman]

wow....that is a huge wall of text. While your point is somewhat valid...you could have the same thing with simply typing in:

"bullying is bad. Americans do it often. Discuss"

Don't be afraid of the text. It is never a bad thing to write a lengthy topic post.


Nobody committed suicide when I was younger over bullying. There where a few extreme cases where other issues where a factor. No kids where diagnosed as mentally unstable.

I blame a lot of this on the nurturing culture, combined with the fairly disconnected society. Kids have phones at a young age and spent much of their time texting and socializing through a screen. These coddled and disconnected kids never learn to handle these social pressures in any productive way, then they are discouraged from lashing out in any physical way. They have no real outlet. Stick them on drugs when they start to see this as a problem and is it any wonder you got a few of them deciding to kill themselves, or worse still decide to taunt and tease other kids.

 

[El Poncho]

Yes, bullying may have been going on for hundreds of years, but humans have developed to stamp out the things which make us look like the savages we are. You may get the odd light hearted bullying which can toughen you up etc. but when you have a lot of people bullying you everyday and when you get home on the internet where's the time for development?

Bullying is just a way to keep people down, to make the bully think they are better than the victim. Also, from what i've seen, every time a kid who is being bullied sticks up for him or herself who gets into trouble? Not the bully, the person who has been getting bullied but people have decided to ignore.

If bullies think they can get away with treating people like crap then they will leave school still acting like that, and anyone who acts like that in society will find other people, bigger and stronger than him, who may also be like that, who will put him in his place.

 

[Last Valiance]

Lol; every post here is just "I don't think bullying is good (I have never been bullied in my whole life because I'm too cool)"

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

The reason they continue this is that they are not given the proper negative consequences of their actions early enough. If that means the bullied beats the bully into a bloody pulp then so be it.

This is very true. This is all societies fault. No parent disciplines their child anymore for fear that discipline = abuse or will retard their progress. Every child is sheltered and protected to the point where teachers are handcuffed when dealing with them. There is no way for anyone but the parent to punish a child, and usually the punishment is something along the lines of a not-so-enforced "timeout". A parent will protect their child's self esteem and creativity to any means necessary even if it means the child is unruly. There's always adderall, anyways.
From the start, most children will learn to be manipulative assholes with no boundaries which will only intensify with age. You add puberty and the end result is bullying.

On the other end of the spectrum is the "victim", who has been raised in the same society but with slightly better parenting. However, in order to not stunt creativity or their self esteem, they've been told that whatever they do is "right". There's no adversity and will never be able to handle a bully.

Overall, America is raising a bunch of total cocks and pussies.

I'll agree with you there as there needs to be better punishments and bit more power and or willingness on the teachers and the parents parts to act accordingly. If only you needed a licence to be a parent.

 

[PeePantz]

I'll agree with you there as there needs to be better punishments and bit more power and or willingness on the teachers and the parents parts to act accordingly. If only you needed a licence to be a parent.

All we need is a fifty question multiple choice quiz and a Spartan pit!!

 

[Dexiro]

Bullying can have it's benefits but most of the time it does more bad than good, and sometimes does no good at all.

Personally I had a small amount of bullying when I was a kid, but it pushed me to try and recognise my flaws and fix them. On the other hand though my self esteem is pretty lacking, and as much as I hate it I'm really shy most of the time.

And what about when kids are bullied due to appearance, disabilities or is a little awkward due to bad parenting or a traumatic event.

I think peer pressure and guidance are much better ways to shape how people behave, bullying is definitely something we can do without.

 

[Snor]

Overall, America is raising a bunch of total cocks and pussies.

>implying that this is limited to America

its not but they are market leader (for now)

 

[Lotet]

some people just aren't strong enough to deal with these things. you say people should just "man up", or some such but there's always someone stronger. what do you do if the person bullying you is the strongest kid in school and is 2ft taller than you?

fortunatly for me, that strong kid was a nice guy, everyone else, I was capable of standing them down. my school was pretty tame really. I was the huge fat guy of the nerds group, probably the huge fat guy for the school in Grade 12.

I can see why you think bullying builds character but how many people benefit from that? all I can see is that unless you're the type to go to Pubs and get into fights then you won't get much out of the experience. it doesn't teach you how to dodge a salemans tricks, it doesn't teach you how to deal with the head-chef throwing your creation on the floor and it doesn't teach you how to resolve a dispute with you friends and family.

all I got was pessimism, like I'm Eeyore the Donkey

 

[tomtom94]

So what you're saying is bullying is a natural part of growing up?

Bullshit. Growing up is about learning things and becoming a better person.
Bullying destroys self-confidence and introverts people.
I know. I've been bullied.

And your advice is for me to "deal with it"? For me to shut up and just allow people to carry on?

Screw that. What needs to happen is more authority needs to be given to teachers to actually deal with the inherent issues.

I'm British, but similar applies here. People will always bully because humanity is not perfect but what needs to happen is the ability for it to be dealt with.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, bullying is natural.

So is rape. So is murder.

Yeah, I was gonna say: Substitute "rape" for "bullying" and see how many people will appreciate the "get over it, pussies" mentality of the first post.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I'll agree with you there as there needs to be better punishments and bit more power and or willingness on the teachers and the parents parts to act accordingly. If only you needed a licence to be a parent.

All we need is a fifty question multiple choice quiz and a Spartan pit!!

Yes and the winner gets to be the apprentice the loser is Rancor food or something along those lines anyway.

 

[Doug]

I spot several flaws in your argument.
1. It's natural, therefore it's right and should be allowed to continue. An action isn't moral or the best thing for society just because it's human instinct. That's because, as anyone whose spent 30 minutes in a sociology class can tell you, human instincts evolved from small groups migratory groups living in the African savanna, and that is no longer the human condition. Take hoarding during times of scarcity for example, or group panic. Ignoring or even encouraging such behavior (and frankly, there's not much difference between the two) as you suggest we do with bullying would be disastrous for modern society.
2. All normal children seek to alienate others outside of their small clique via bullying. This simply isn't true. Plenty of children, teens, and adults have groups of close friends without becoming bullies or alienating others. Bullies behaviors (when not financially motivated) are usually the result of deep-seated insecurity.
3. Bullying "toughens-up" children and prepares for the real world. I can't think of one single person, myself included, who ever thanked or was grateful to a bully at any time in their life for "preparing them". Bullying doesn't "toughen you up" it just hurts. All prolonged bullying will teach you is how to be afraid, angry, and bitter. It also distracts children from the real reason for their being in school, a.k.a. getting an education. It's awfully hard to concentrate on long division when your trying to keep from shitting yourself in fear. And that doesn't even touch on the damage done to the person committing these acts. What's the bully learning? That it's okay to take whatever you want, so long as your the bigger guy? That making others feel bad will make you feel good? Does that sound like what you want a child to learn? Does it sound like it will lead to a future productive member of society? Because it sounds like a future criminal and asshole to me.

tl;dr Bullying might be a part of growing up, but that doesn't mean that such behavior should be tolerated or ignored. At all. Ever.

You nail it right on the head matey!

 

[IkeGreil29]

Like I said in another post on another topic. You have two sides to the issue.

Yes, bullying is wrong and it's wrong that it goes unpunished, because we end up telling bullies they'll get away with it.

On the other hand, those that commit suicide over it (bullying never made me turn to that, other circumstances did though) already have a predisposition to do it. Bad parenting is usually one of the cases. Also, you yourself mentioned people facilitate their bullying by publishing stuff on the internet. We obviously need to teach more net safety, as stupid and retarded as it might seem to us, the more tech savvy people.

Also, I think that this shows how wrong sociologists are about generation Z (born in 90's and naughties). They say we're more individualistic than the previous generations X and Y, but we're forced into social groups to prevent this shitty behavior.

One last thing... I don't get how this continues up to high school. Seriously. In my school there isn't bullying, especially if you're different. Maybe it's the fact that it's been the same class pretty much all the way through, but I see new people coming in, and they don't get bullied. I guess we all have learnt to laugh at ourselves, and fight back only when it's gotten out of hand.