America, A nation of bullies. Fighting back? Or moving backwards?

[Paksenarrion]

If bullying is natural, then fighting back is just as natural. If bullying is to continue on its natural course, as it has in humanity's past, then fighting back should be allowed, too.

If you're going to bully someone, your victim should be allowed to fight back with extreme prejudice. Let's take off all the gloves. Let's have a glorious cascade of Columbines! Let the bodies hit the floor! LET THE BLOOD OF OUR TORMENTORS FLOW FREELY IN OUR SCHOOLS! LET THE HATE FLOW THROUGH YOU!

Peace is a Lie, there is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
With Victory, my Chains are Broken.
Brute Force shall Free Me.

 

[Akalistos]

It's not good, but it's without a doubt natural, otherwise nobody would do it. --Coming from a guy who USED to be.

People don't do it because it is natrual people do it because it makes them feel good and big. Heroine also makes people feel good are suggesting that is natural too?

I'm suggesting that the instinct to fight and kill is natural. So yes, I am suggesting that bullying is natural.

Heroine is a completely different and redundant topic that in no way applies here.

Not really you are suggesting that getting pleasure from anothers pain and anguish is a natural. You are suggesting that having a "Superiority Complex" thinking you are better than another person is normal. Which is in direct contradiction with the article saying that none of this abnormal so no person is superior to the other.

The instinct to fight may be natural but to kill is learned. Very few are born with a killer instinct. People don't kill because it is in them unless it is learned people kill as a necessity.

The reasoning behind my use of Heroine is not unnecessary or redundant people use it because it makes them feel good people don't bully out of the kindness of their hearts to help build a person's selfesteem and improve them as a person. They do it because it makes them feel good and fuck all the concequences out the window.

You're misinterpreting my posts...

I know why you used heroine as an example, but you missed my original point. I never said they did it for pleasure. I said it was NATURAL. They are BORN READY TO FIGHT. As are lions, cougars, etc.

Pleasure has nothing to do with it in my opinion.

EDIT: As for the kill thing, I may be wrong or right - but this is strictly to do with bullying.

There fun also involve in bulling. Seriously, most of them do it for fun. Story time:

I was bullied. I bottle up my emotion tho so they made a point to see me to my braking point. Braking point being that I would just go into a instinct mode where i would hulk out. This said, I took out someone over 1 and a half feet taller than me but also knocked one out cold with a baseball. It went to a point that they broke my pack which contained my lunch and things. My glass bottle broke and i pick up the neck in a hand and ran after a bully.

Bully: "Chill man, i was just having fun!"
To which i reply: " Now, it my turn to have fun! I'm gonna murder you!" He ran away.

So? This is why we say:" It all fun and game until somebody lose a eye!"

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Well I do admit that I don't think that bullying has increased in the past years, I think we're just paying more attention to it. A shift from "Boys will be boys" to "My child is very special and nothing bad should ever happen to him". And I'm sure that there are also people who over react. One bad thing gets said about them and they commit suicide (hyperbole, but you get my point). And yes kids need to learn that you won't always get along with people that you meet and that some people are just assholes.

But you seems to miss that fact that there are actually cases of bullying that don't fall into the above categories. A smaller kid who gets pushed around and punched by bigger older boys who do it for the power-trip they get. A poor girl who is constantly ridiculed, insulted, and ostracized due to an unfortunate incident that she never managed to live down that happened years ago. These are serious cases and shouldn't be tolerated because "these things happen". It's like not trying to prevent murders because there will always be people who kill others.

For all those who are saying that bullying is nothing to get upset about, either you never were bullied or you were the bully.[satire]Either way why don't you get kidnapped and tortured by some psychopath. I'm sure that it will help you "get tougher" and "build character". And no whining when I say mean words to you, because life is unfair you piece of shit.[/satire]

 

[Plurralbles]

Remember kids, bullying in America is bad when schoolchildren do it. You're supposed to wait until you're older so you can go into politics and do it to the rest of the world.

your posts that i"ve bothered reading lately have been totally awesome. Good job.

anyway, I don't think bullying is capable of doing anything for anyone. I got bullied out of my school's soccer program. Was I bad? Did I deserve to be treated like shit every day for even thinking of talking to anybody on my team or even doing the most dastardly sin ever by even thinking of showing up to practice? Did it help the team by reducing me to dead weight? Did I ever get help? Nope. I enjoyed the silent treatment, balls to the head(while not playing)the bench, and my not playing even two minutes six games in a row and never playing or feeling welcome during the preseason when teh team is supposed to be experimenting and improving and getting closer on and off the field. it's small wonder that I became a worse player for the team over the course of the three years I played in high scool(quit my senior year in favor of playing on a team not full of pricks and instead running for the cross country team). You know what though? Ask every other team I've ever played for before and after. I was a capable player and on every other team I was treated like a human being. I'm not a fucking Pal'e, no. Of course not. But was I a valuable, appreciated starter on every other team I ever was on? yes. yes i was/am.

My confidence is slowly improving but it was absolutely shot at my lowest point.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

Everybody has insecurities, anger and depression pent up inside them. We all try to release this negative energy and deal with it in our own way. Some people, especially children who might be going through a lot of complex, confusing and difficult situations (problems at home, problems fitting in, struggling in school, and a ton of other things), release this energy through bullying. That's all it is. Someone who bullies is simply dealing with their energy in an unhealthy manner, because they don't know how to better deal with problems. Bullies aren't bad people, they are people too, and they have problems just like everybody else. All their bullying is, is misguided attempt to deal with these issues.

Trying to "crack down" on bullying like it's some sort of crime isn't going to solve anything, or if it does, only temporarily, because it doesn't address the factors that cause it in the first place.

Now, do I believe bullying is "natural" or it's supposed to happen? Not necessarily. It's not like people are supposed to bully, like it needs to happen for them to develop. But it is most certainly is a natural reaction to emotional pain and struggle for someone who doesn't know how, or can't deal with their problems in a more healthy way. I don't think we should just let it fucking happen while telling the victims of it to man up. Sure, it "deals" with the problem, but that's all it does. It just makes the problem a bit less worse, but it still won't go away.

I'm not really sure how the problem should be addressed though, because honestly, I really, really, really fucking hate most of my experiences with how school staff has tried to deal with these problems. Throughout Middle School, I dealt with bullying quite a bit, and I never got any significant help from counselors, the advice they gave me hardly helped, and their interventions made it worse. I would love to take a more emotionally open approach to this problem, let both the bullies and bullied express their problems openly to teachers, but given how utterly retarded school staff and counselors tend to be when it comes to psychology, I don't think that would work that well.

snip

You didn't say bullying is natural you basically just said it was a learned and accepted social norm. It makes it the norm for our culture but it does not make it natural. Just because a child has not been taught right and wrong properly by their parents does make bullying natural. It is done to further that child wants and needs and makes that child feel good about itself at the expense of others. The reason they continue this is that they are not given the proper negative consequences of their actions early enough. If that means the bullied beats the bully into a bloody pulp then so be it.

What is that going to achieve? That's going to show the bullied that it's acceptable to use violence to solve their problems, and it's going to fill the bully with more anger towards other people.

And what do you mean by negative consequences? Just putting a bully in time out or giving him detention isn't going to solve anything. Sure, it might send him a message that the teachers and students don't like bullying and that it's wrong, but when someone is in a position where they bully and make fun of other people to deal with their problems and to cloud their insecurities, I doubt they are going to take that message to heart.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

What is that going to achieve? That's going to show the bullied that it's acceptable to use violence to solve their problems, and it's going to fill the bully with more anger towards other people.

And what do you mean by negative consequences? Just putting a bully in time out or giving him detention isn't going to solve anything. Sure, it might send him a message that the teachers and students don't like bullying and that it's wrong, but when someone is in a position where they bully and make fun of other people to deal with their problems and to cloud their insecurities, I doubt they are going to take that message to heart.

Actually a lot it solved many of my bully problems. Straight out suspension from school if caught bullying if it continues then expulsion and a prision sentence if you don't like your violence. Unless of course you have any better ideas instead of just saying mine are crap.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Double post.

 

[linkzeldi]

You make a valid point but I have to disagree with some of your arguement. Yes the teenage years have you pumping hormones, and it's perfectly natural to be a selfish bastard. That does not excuse being a selfish bastard in the slightest. Humans hold themselves to a higher standard then apes, as we consider ourselves self aware and thus able to overcome our natural urges. Just because chimpanzees constantly fight one another does not mean we have too. Speaking as a person that was bullied for years I actively tried not to make myself a victim. The problem is as long as they do not fear repercussion they will continue to act dickishly. I could have gone to school and punched out every kid who mocked me, but I'd only be lowering myself to their level. I did try my best to resist, but eventually my will faded away and I was left a husk of my former self. I'm recovering sure, but no matter how many friendly people I meet the fear that they secretly hate me and are only smiling and putting up with me still exists. I never did once consider killing myself but I did kind of stop caring about everything. The bullies at my school weren't troubled like your stereotypical bully would be, they lived much better lives then me. The problem was the school system, the parents all stuck them on these huge pedestals. Unlike me they weren't reminded daily of how much they really sucked. I think the best way of dealing with bullies would be to kick them off their pedestals, possibly remind them how shitty it feels like to be talked down to. That would be assuming they had hards, instead of clockwork emotion simulators that ran on money, and designer jeans.

 

[Agayek]

Well here's my view on the matter:

People get bullied, there's no point in trying to stop it, unfortunately it's just one of things that stupid humans do, this does not prove that it is right however..This is something that I cannot stop and so it goes to some one else to actually solve the matter..
Oh and a note towards those macho fellows who believe that suicide is, 'weak and pathetic'. Let me ask you something, what exactly is wrong with suicide, if you ask me it's one of the bravest things a man can do, aside from the killing yourself part, most are also scared of what is beyond, it could be even worse than what they already go through, therefore do not knock suicide, it's a great option for avoiding pain.

Three last points:
A. - I'm English and so we're all a lot nicer over here,
B. - I was never bullied harshly at all so I sympathize with people who commit suicide,
C. - I believe that suicide is the way forward, if everyone did it then there would be no more problems, but thats a debate for another thread..

Suicide is pathetic because instead of facing your problems and dealing with them, you take the easy way out. You run away from your problems, in the most absolute sense, instead of having the fortitude to face them.

Also, in regards to your last point, if everyone committed suicide, we'd all be dead and no one would have anything. And a lack of negatives isn't so good when it comes with a lack of positives.

So what you're saying is bullying is a natural part of growing up?

Bullshit. Growing up is about learning things and becoming a better person.
Bullying destroys self-confidence and introverts people.
I know. I've been bullied.

And your advice is for me to "deal with it"? For me to shut up and just allow people to carry on?

Screw that. What needs to happen is more authority needs to be given to teachers to actually deal with the inherent issues.

I'm British, but similar applies here. People will always bully because humanity is not perfect but what needs to happen is the ability for it to be dealt with.

While your sentiment is correct, your proposed solution won't solve anything. Instead of more authority to those already with authority, we need to be giving authority to the victims. Do everything possible to encourage them to stand up for themselves. If such a system were in place, there would be drastically fewer bullying incidents. Bullies, generally, back down at a show of force. If you're bullied, fight back. That's the only way to make them stop.

 

[arsenicCatnip]

*snip*

Just... wow. Um. While I agree with your sentiment, I disagree with your phrasing.

As stated elsewhere, I was bullied. And I fought the fuck back. Yeah, it messed with me a little, but overall I wouldn't be who I was if it hadn't happened.

We need to stop punishing kids who fight back against bullies (don't deny that you've seen kids get in trouble for actually FIGHTING back rather than just going to an adult) and let them go. I mean, jesus.

Suicide is a bit extreme, though.

And for the record: I'm sick of bullying topics. Bullying happens. It's natural. Yeah, it's not a good thing. But quit comparing it to rape and murder, for chrissake. In the severity list, it's nowhere near them. Kids who kill themselves because they were bullied aren't victims, in my book; they're just weak-minded enough to let the world convince them that it would be better off if they're dead. I sympathize with the parents, but I don't think that killing yourself is a viable thing to do in the face of bullies. You let them win when you do that.

It's MUCH more fun to grow up, become successful, and find out that your tormentors are working shitty minimum wage jobs after dropping out of high school because they fell/got someone pregnant.

 

[ecoho]

I in fact have faced a lot of bullying, used to get my ass beat, even had a schizorphrenic loser be higher on the social rung then me, and beat my ass.

Actually, If you read it as it was intended you would notice, I do not call Bullying bad, I in fact believe it is a natural course of human development, and people need to notice this before we lose something so valuable. (not the bullying it's self but the things we develop because of it) Discuss.

Spoken by someone who has never experienced actual bullying. If you think bullying is natural and normal I think you are a little not right to be honest. There is nothing natural or good about bullying.

If you do not see how Bullying is natural, then you have never watched any of the early 50's after school programs, bullying has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years. It is the way for humans to show superiority, over others, and to look even further, we develop things needed to survive in society because of it, Because to put it simply, there are always those whom will be the "victims" the problem is do they persevere and push forward, in the face of adversity and learn something about the world, or kill themselves, because the media and our monocentric society tell us, that everything that happens to you, is worse then anything else the world has ever faced ever, and if you can't take it then you don't have to.
Of course you would know this (and that I had been bullied even up until I was a senior, and I don't mean hurr hurr your a loser, I mean getting my ass beat, being terrified of going to school so much that I would force myself to throw up in the hopes that I would get the day off for being sick) If you had actually read my post.

ok man first off bullying is not natural per-say it has become a norm how ever. Now let me explain the reason "bullying" is not natural is because while in the wild we would need to bully others for food water mates ect. we dont need to now. Now you might be confuseing it be normal for it being natural and thats a commen mistake. That all being said i was beat up as a child till i snaped on some poor soul and almost beat him to death so i strongly suport all anti-bullying rules and/or laws that i can. Not because bullying is bad (it is) but because it always goes 1 step too far and the bullied will take matters into their own hands which can resault in serious injury, jail time, and even death. So even if its the natural thing to do as you state there is no reason we cant at least try to remove it.

EDIT: the guy above me has the right idea

 

[Free Thinker]

As a high schooler in the proverbial toilet that others would call the U.S. Education System, I was bullied from grade 1, and it didn't end until 8th grade. I was depressed and I had no one to turn to in terms of friends. I do sympathize for victims, but I believe schools are the middle man who tells the parents to quit being bad parents and make lil' Timmy bastard-child play nice and quit being an asshole.

 

[Paksenarrion]

*snip*

Spoiler: snip

Just... wow. Um. While I agree with your sentiment, I disagree with your phrasing.

As stated elsewhere, I was bullied. And I fought the fuck back. Yeah, it messed with me a little, but overall I wouldn't be who I was if it hadn't happened.

We need to stop punishing kids who fight back against bullies (don't deny that you've seen kids get in trouble for actually FIGHTING back rather than just going to an adult) and let them go. I mean, jesus.

Suicide is a bit extreme, though.

And for the record: I'm sick of bullying topics. Bullying happens. It's natural. Yeah, it's not a good thing. But quit comparing it to rape and murder, for chrissake. In the severity list, it's nowhere near them. Kids who kill themselves because they were bullied aren't victims, in my book; they're just weak-minded enough to let the world convince them that it would be better off if they're dead. I sympathize with the parents, but I don't think that killing yourself is a viable thing to do in the face of bullies. You let them win when you do that.

It's MUCH more fun to grow up, become successful, and find out that your tormentors are working shitty minimum wage jobs after dropping out of high school because they fell/got someone pregnant.

If they were able to get someone pregnant and have progeny, clearly we are doing it wrong. If you're not going shoot to kill, then shoot them in the sex organs.

Suffer not a bully to live.

I do agree that suicide is an inappropriate response. Their minds were too pure, too naive to survive the harsh realities of the world. I say, let vigilante justice reign. Civilization is overrated. Kill, or be killed. The strong eat the weak.

If you kill a bully, and their parents try to sue you, kill them, too. Clearly, they were not strong enough to avenge their own child. Only the strong should rule the world. We must be willing to kill to sustain our sense of safety and happiness.

 

[Neferius]

"Now of course, we can rule out these bullied teens or pre-teens as being involved in religious sacrifices, and even performing actions seen as sacrificial"

*imitates Peter Griffin*
Oh, so what? So if some guy throws you down a Volcano or Cuts your Heart out while you're still breathin, what that means He wants to be Friends with you or Something? ...jeez.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

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1. wall of text more spacing would have been nice.

2. you could not be more wrong bullying is not a natural part of growing up Edit* to be specific

3. bullying is a product of the school system in place.
Bullying is a symptom of the real problem not the problem itself

4. read please http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html