American comics should take a pointer from manga?

[aba1]

Its no secret that american comics are getting steadily less popular and are selling less and less every year and I ask why is this? If you take a look at anime/ manga the genere as a whole is getting more and more popular. So to get to my point I think the reason american comics are getting less popular is the stories don't hold any value because nothing ever matters there are hundreds of universes characters get brought back and dieing over and over and at the end of the day things tend to be exactly as they were when it all started.

Meanwhile with manga you have one timeline it starts and eventually finishes and thats that, no mixed up continuity no bringing characters back and forth no reseting numbers undoing things or making up new universes and that is why I think manga has been such a success here while our own comics are slowly dwindling.

So what I think marvel and DC should do is litterally restart everything square one with origins and all and write one story and eventually end it and make a new story rather than trying to rehash all these old tired characters that simply do not make any sence anymore because to much has simply happened and then not happened etc etc. Even if they didnt do it with any major characters just minor ones or new ones I think they would find there is a good potential there givin proper marketing.

Anybody else feel the same way I do?

 

[Dr Ampersand]

It would certainly make things easier for people new to comics. They might get a different reaction than,"which?" when the say they really like Robin.

 

[rosac]

I think that several shorter story arcs would be nice too, as the longer arcs cost a lot of money to keep up with. But thats an issue I have with both manga and western comics.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

try the Ultimate Marvel comics, they meet up to some of your suggestions

 

[Jazzeki]

or maybe we should have a varied market where there is something for every taste?
we have manga allready we don't need western copmics to become it as well.
that's like saying twilight and transformers were extreamly popular movies every movie should be like those. would hyou honestly like to live in a world where every movie is twilight and transformers?

 

[Scarim Coral]

You do know that DC comic are going to have a reboot soon which some people are not happy with. I fine with them doing that since it sort of natural for them to do so (after all there are golden age, silver age DC comics).
As for keeping their universe as the only one I highly doubt they will remove the alternative universes. Some of the best comic novels are from different universes (Kingdom Come, The Dark Knight Strikes Again etc).
However I do agree with the whole killing characters off and for them to return a year or so later. It's no longer a shoker and it's now more like a bet on how long will they stay dead?

 

[sageoftruth]

I'm no western comics buff, but I do know that Marvel and DC aren't the only creators of western comics. Could someone more well-versed in comics industry tell me if another company, such as Darkhorse, comics has the same multi-verse, parallel universe problem?

 

[metal eslaved]

Actually a comic book writer Dwayne Mcduffie(the guy that created static shock,an was the main writer in the justice league cartoon) said that the main problem with comic books is that continuity was making readers scared of superheroes comics, he said that the best way to get new readers is to every superhero title to exist in his own continuity.

here a column he wrote about that issue
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB2.html

and here is the second part of that column
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB3.html

And there a lot of comic books that actually have ended for example:
Transmetropolitan
100bullets
blaze of glory
Apache skies(continuacion of blaze of glory)
We3
all star superman
superman red
star wars legacy
etc....

The thing is that when somebody says comic books (in the us a least) they are actually saying superheroes books when in reality there is a lots of diferrent types of series.

the problem is that you can find manga anywhere and also manga is cheap and a single issue of a comicbook right now is aleast 3dollars

 

[Swifteye]

Western comics and eastern comics both have there flaws but personally for me I don't like reading western comics because they often just don't come off as interesting to me. Sure it makes a fun movie but costumed superheroes hashing it out with villians all the time just gets boring. And it's been the same superheroes for a really long time its just so hard to care that batman is fighting the joker again but this time it's back to square one because it needed a reboot to become interesting again. It's already boring cause I've read about batman. The mangas are not very interesting for the same reasons but switched around. Instead of costumed super hero switch it out with high school kid who gets super powers through X reason(or replace super powers with women) and after a huge handful of stories throughout the years all pretty much being the same but with different settings and names for super powers I've just gotten tired and bored of them. That and they go on forever. This happens a lot with shonen jump stories but when reading a story means apparently having to read over 300 books or more thats. Well. Its no better than the comics if you ask me especially if you end up with a story that got extended well beyond it's narrative means and is just spinning it's gears for the sake of money.

A good story is rather universal despite the popularity of manga saying otherwise it's honestly just a fad as comics had 30 or 40 years to start getting old mangas haven't been here that long so they are still fresh. An interesting story well told with fun characters and a creative plot. The exact execution will vary from person to person on what suits who better but it's fairly clear that if you approach creating with the interest of expressing oneself and you do it with as much skill as possible you should end up with something people like.

Then again why do that when you can just ride the wave till it crashes onto the shore?

 

[Arsen]

I do agree with you on the sentiment towards the collapse of DC, Marvel, etc.

However, Dark Horse, Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Todd McFarlane, and various others are still releasing good ones every now and then. I'm doing more of an "East VS West" comparison here. I am fully aware they are both English.

Then again, manga isn't what it used to be either. The ONLY manga I have ever read, and I feel is worth a damn, is the Akira series. It was actually good, had awesome symbolism, ridiculously beautiful art, and is worthy as a science fiction classic. To me, Manga emphasizes technique over storyline. They care more about the problems and angsty ventings of the teenage population over actual, realistic adult problems.

Even then, few if any manga counterparts can hold a candle to these series:

- Anything released by Alan Moore
- "Spawn" by Todd McFarlane
- Neil Gaiman's "Sandman"
- "The Fable" series by Bill Willingham
- The Dark Tower graphic novels, from Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series.
- Frank Miller's "Sin City"
- Joe Hill's "Locke and Key"
- NUMEROUS Batman graphic novels, specifically "Arkham Asylum"

The vast majority of manga on the shelf is just...rubbish these days. Nothing is intelligent, comes off with a sense of artistic merit, and just...has little if any content. At least within recent memory. Manga's greatest years are unfortunately in her past.

Edit - I also have to give props to both "Lone Wolf and Cub" and the "Blade of the Immortal" series.

 

[aba1]

I do agree with you on the sentiment towards the collapse of DC, Marvel, etc.

However, Dark Horse, Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore, Todd McFarlane, and various others are still releasing good ones every now and then. I'm doing more of an "East VS West" comparison here. I am fully aware they are both English.

Then again, manga isn't what it used to be either. The ONLY manga I have ever read, and I feel is worth a damn, is the Akira series. It was actually good, had awesome symbolism, ridiculously beautiful art, and is worthy as a science fiction classic. To me, Manga emphasizes technique over storyline. They care more about the problems and angsty ventings of the teenage population over actual, realistic adult problems.

Even then, few if any manga counterparts can hold a candle to these series:

- Anything released by Alan Moore
- "Spawn" by Todd McFarlane
- Neil Gaiman's "Sandman"
- "The Fable" series by Bill Willingham
- The Dark Tower graphic novels, from Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" series.
- Frank Miller's "Sin City"
- Joe Hill's "Locke and Key"
- NUMEROUS Batman graphic novels, specifically "Arkham Asylum"

The vast majority of manga on the shelf is just...rubbish these days. Nothing is intelligent, comes off with a sense of artistic merit, and just...has little if any content. At least within recent memory. Manga's greatest years are unfortunately in her past.

Edit - I also have to give props to both "Lone Wolf and Cub" and the "Blade of the Immortal" series.

Btw did spawn ever actually end I see comics for it all the time in the new releases but it struck me as the sorta story that ended I watch all of the HBO animated series and I was hooked but it sorta got cut off so does it ever even finish?

I also have to agree I cant really get into most of the newer manga these days either but its not really what I was getting at it was more the way those authors approch there stories compaired to how superhero stories are written. I just think the straight forwardness makes it alot easier to understand and therfore appreciate for manga if you want to start you just buy book 1 but for american comics even if you manage to find number one its not even realy the beggining half the time

 

[sketch_zeppelin]

ahhh no, First of all manga series get reboots all the time. they'll just add a letter to the title. Its actually worse than western reboots because usally all they'll do is change the character designs a bit and focus on a different character. the over all story isn't really changed though.

also once you've watched enough anime or read enough manga then you'll start to notice that 90% of it is the same handful of stories just with look and names of the characters changed around. these days i can put on an anime and be able to call exactly whats going to happen.

For example tell me how often this happens in manga. A young decent looking young man suddenly finds himself forced to live with a group of hot girls, each want to jump his bones but he doesn't seem to intrested in any of them except mabey one...and then later on he ends up meeting a new girl and falling in love with her and the first girl he kinda liked has to deal with this ect ect...you see where i'm going with this?

Now occasionally you do get somthing worth wild. Cowboy Bebob, Aikra (the manga, not the anime), Lone Wolf and Cub. these are fairly original concepts. but most of the time its just another rip off of dragon ball or sailor moon.

Its sad that when someone refers to western comics people immediatly think of superhero comics. the fact is MOST of the greatest comics ever written are western. and most are not superhero serials.

Here are some examples

Maus
Transmetropolitan
Persepolis
Locke & Key
Pax Romana
The Walking Dead
Bone
The Maxx
Preacher
Death, Time of Your Life
Sin City
Murder Mysteries
Pride
Black Sad
Scud: The Desposible Assasin

Manga seems so generic and lifeless when compared to stories like these. I don't want to sound like a hater. I grew up loving anime in the early 90's but the market has since become so oversaturated that i've come to realise the genre isn't as amazing as i once thought.

yes super hero comics are conviluted and often time difficult to dive into but you shouldn't judge all sequintal art based on it.

 

[aba1]

Actually a comic book writer Dwayne Mcduffie(the guy that created static shock,an was the main writer in the justice league cartoon) said that the main problem with comic books is that continuity was making readers scared of superheroes comics, he said that the best way to get new readers is to every superhero title to exist in his own continuity.

here a column he wrote about that issue
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB2.html

and here is the second part of that column
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB2.html

And there a lot of comic books that actually have ended for example:
Transmetropolitan
100bullets
blaze of glory
Apache skies(continuacion of blaze of glory)
We3
all star superman
superman red
star wars legacy
etc....

The thing is that when somebody says comic books (in the us a least) they are actually saying superheroes books when in reality there is a lots of diferrent types of series.

the problem is that you can find manga anywhere and also manga is cheap and a single issue of a comicbook right now is aleast 3dollars

Manga is about 15 dollers a book so its not that much cheaper but regardless I see your point and so I guess a better idea would be maybe they should push some of there lessb popular series that do have proper continuity or at least make there popular series more like the less popular ones.

great articals btw but both links are the same

 

[aba1]

Manga seems so generic and lifeless when compared to stories like these. I don't want to sound like a hater. I grew up loving anime in the early 90's but the market has since become so oversaturated that i've come to realise the genre isn't as amazing as i once thought.

yes super hero comics are conviluted and often time difficult to dive into but you shouldn't judge all sequintal art based on it.

Like i mentioned in the comment above yours I have to agree alot of newer manga isnt that good I have also been into anime for a very long time and seen shows that do the exact same formula but thats not what I was getting at My point was about the continuity and how manga always has a linear story line while american superhero comics do not. I also have to agree about your point of there being more than just superhero comics and I think maybe the companys should start to push some of there lesser known comics a little more clearly the potential is there some of my favurites are like that, infact my favurite comic is relitivly unknown altogether I had to specially order it just to get it.

 

[metal eslaved]

Actually a comic book writer Dwayne Mcduffie(the guy that created static shock,an was the main writer in the justice league cartoon) said that the main problem with comic books is that continuity was making readers scared of superheroes comics, he said that the best way to get new readers is to every superhero title to exist in his own continuity.

here a column he wrote about that issue
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB2.html

and here is the second part of that column
http://homepage.mac.com/dmcduffie/site/BTYB2.html

And there a lot of comic books that actually have ended for example:
Transmetropolitan
100bullets
blaze of glory
Apache skies(continuacion of blaze of glory)
We3
all star superman
superman red
star wars legacy
etc....

The thing is that when somebody says comic books (in the us a least) they are actually saying superheroes books when in reality there is a lots of diferrent types of series.

the problem is that you can find manga anywhere and also manga is cheap and a single issue of a comicbook right now is aleast 3dollars

Manga is about 15 dollers a book so its not that much cheaper but regardless I see your point and so I guess a better idea would be maybe they should push some of there lessb popular series that do have proper continuity or at least make there popular series more like the less popular ones.

great articals btw but both links are the same

Okay i just fix the directions

 

[Mr Somewhere]

1) Manga have just as many problems as "American" comics, if not more.
2) "getting steadily less popular" where's your source? Things seem to be going in the opposite direction. Comics have much more exposure these days.
3) You're mistaking "American" comics with superhero comics, they are two entirely different entities.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

...I don't think you realise how many comic series things their are.
And I don't think you realise how many pointless manga stories there are.

Atleast in every american comic at the book store, they are action packed, and I can read them. Where as a good 50% of mangas creep the ever living ship out of me...

 

[SteveZim1017]

I believe a large reason for the increase in popularity of Manga vs the decrease in popularity of western comics is due largely to the format.

Most Manga sold in the west are in larger book formats, these are becoming more and more appealing and are easily stocked and sold in larger book retailers.

The fragility of time sensitive nature of individual comic issues turns away both retailers and consumers. Many long time comic readers are moving to Trades instead of individual issues (myself included).

Continuity is not all bad, but not keeping it loose enough to allow creativity is a bad thing. Having a one page "remember when this happened" kinda recap about a characters history that is relevant to the story is always a nice big help. example: Batman battles with the Joker remember last time the met when joker did blah blah.. (add few thumbnail time images to help storyboard it along). If you are interested see issues 507-509 or the "Jokers wild" trade available now!

 

[Araxiel_1911]

Wow, that is an incredibly narrow view you've got there.
I personally don't like superhero comics, which most popular American ones are. But that's not because they?re bad, but because I, myself, don't like them. A few people, maybe 10 or so, like the new Captain America movie. I don't, because I find it quite stupid. If there would be comic series dedicated to Rorschach, then I would read it. But there isn?t.

Speaking of Captain America, which is a good example to show that western Comic Superheroes are more popular than ever. The movie made $120,860,029 thus far, and it's not over yet. Then we had Batman - The Dark Knight, one of the best movies of the past few years. It too was a huge success. Then there was Iron Man 1 and 2. The list goes on.
Now we have a great amount of people that loved these movies but never read any of the comics. Those people now pick up the comics of the heroes they liked in the movie-format. Soon later they will start to pick up more comics.

Now I'm really questioning where you've got that "American Comics are unpopular" from. "Its no secret", no it is not, since you just made that up. Do you have any numbers, statistics or facts to back that up? Or is it just because the guy that sits next to you in the bus wants you to shut up talking about Black Cat?

And your main argument is that "oh, Manga have a straight time line (I call that a story line, but whatever suits you buddy). Well, the popular once, they don't. I take as example one of the most successful and popular ones out there: Naruto. It goes on for frigging forever. "it starts and eventually finishes and thats that", those are you words. I can't see an end to Naruto. Hell, once a season/volume ends, they just make up another reason why they have to fight that or that guy and what they have to do to become real Ninjas (real Ninjas don't wear orange, they wear black so they blend in the night, for Christ sake).* And there are lots others like that out there:
OnePiece, goes on forever
Pokemon, new ones pop up all the time
And the best example that shows that there are even Manga that have an ever expanding universe with new characters added to it and being relaunched all the time and having certain character vanish to later reappear:
Gundam. That universe is huge.

And to add to you narrowness, and the one of a lot of other ones:
Comics unequal American Comics
All American comics are comics, but not all comics are American, geez. And for that matter, not all American comics are superhero comics. There's a lot of great Franco-Belge stuff out there. I've just recently stumbled upon a great Cyberpunky-Warhammer40k-ish series called "YIU", great stuff. One of my favourite comics out there is "Atalante". And 5 years before Mass Effect I've read "Orbital", a series with an alien race only made up of females.
But as suggested, I'm also a great Watchman fan. And manga wise I've read my way all through Death Note (should really have ended half way in), I love Ghost in the Shell and its "predecessor" Akira. I greatly enjoyed the Hellsing series and still reading Claymore. I'm fond of the Blame! series and just finished BioMega a week ago.

If you do keep that narrow view of yours, then yes, I agree, DC and Marvel and whatnot should "reboot" their series since nothing else worth reading is out there. But just because you and likeminded people don't like the American comics right now, does not mean they're "less popular and are selling less and less every year".

 
*The DC universe is also made up of the comics and the affiliated movies. Harley for example was introduced with BtA, but then showed up in the comics, too.

 

[k-ossuburb]

I don't read manga a lot but I think you're missing a few factors that make this pretty implausible at the very least.

See, manga has become popular since it's humble roots back in the early 1950's and it massive underground popularity boom in the 1980's due to anime becoming more widespread and iconic films like Akira being prevalent cult classics in Western society. Since then, anime has lended a very big helping hand to manga's popularity among teenagers and beyond due to children's television studios buying up franchises cheaply in order to repackage them for a Western audience. The likes of 4Kids being one of the most well known examples in this practice, but this kind of thing has been going on for a lot longer.

Alongside this would be the popularity of Bruce Lee and other Kung Fu movies during the 80's and 90's which also helped the Japanese "beat 'em up" become a popular staple in many arcades and console ports. The likes of Mortal Kombat borrowing heavily from various Japanese "beat 'em ups" that preceded it.

This combined together to make anime and manga pretty tightly ingrained into geek culture which has only served to boost its popularity further. Most of the time it has nothing to do with the quality as there's always something out there for everyone with manga and anime, being that it covers such a diverse range of genres, age groups and themes. This basically means that because manga is such a huge market that it's often a lot easier to forget about the millions of failures and only focus on the classics instead.

Geeks can also be very defensive about their fandoms and they will defend ANYTHING if they love it enough. Not all manga is good, in fact, because there's so much of it due to the method in which it is produced, a fair percentage is absolute garbage, but people will still love it regardless because, like I said, manga is extremely diverse and if you cater to everyone then everyone will find something to like and simply ignore the rest.

Secondly, (and I'm going to ignore the fact that there are hundreds of fantastic Western comic franchises out there that don't require continuity or super heroes) the franchises that Marvel and DC produce are not just comics, they're SYMBOLS.

Captain America and Superman are good examples of this as they both helped U.S. troops by being a symbol of their country and everything it stood for (they probably still do, but I've never bothered to ask).

You can't change these characters and make them so easily recyclable, that would be an insult to everyone who grew up with them throughout their lives. They're just as important to Western society as Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny, they're a massive part of our lives and they're instantly recognizable to people even if they've never read the comics. Granted, there are some out there that some people might not recognize, but even the slightly lesser-known characters have their place in history.

Manga characters are disposable because they are mass produced. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, obviously it's something that works for that particular platform, but it would never work for the DC and Marvel characters because those characters are more like a kind of heritage. They're something that one generation passes onto the next and diluting them will only serve to ensure they eventually fade into the background as future generations consider them to be relics that do not deserve respect.