An element of American military brainwashing?
- Thread starter Lt_Bromhead
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What's "dude time"....?Redratson said:trust me in dude time you will learn one way or another.Lt_Bromhead said:
And actually following those orders without panic or fear. They aren't kidding when they say military service requires some personal sacrifice (even if you never go into combat).manythings said:
It's also very difficult to pin the "Best Elite Special Forces Group" on any one country's because the actions of these sorts of groups are not exactly well-publicized (for obvious reasons). Without accurate information, how do you compare them?
Urban Dictionary, probably just a troll.
Though you do put up a pretty good point and to be fair, this is how most of these crappy "realistic" non-realistic FPS' are made.
Though you do put up a pretty good point and to be fair, this is how most of these crappy "realistic" non-realistic FPS' are made.
I'd say a minority of real soldiers believe that. Plenty of plain American citizens think that.Lt_Bromhead said:
But you can't limit that to America. In every country in the world there are people who think their country is "#1"
Is it stupid to think that? Yes.
Is it just Americans? Not even close.
There is no racism involved, as both Brits and the American majority are the same race. This is pretty much Special Forces bravedo, it's been going on forever, and there are doubtlessly SAS/Royal Marine Commando members who feel exactly the same way. Also there is rivalry between the armed forces corps in the US, especially seeing as they have all turned into combined arms forces of one sort or another. Delta Force and Navy Seals compete with each other for yucks, and the rivalry (usually in fun) goes as far as things like the (in)famous Army/Navy football game.Lt_Bromhead said:
If you ask amyone in the world whose special forces are the best, they are likely to argue in favor of their own. This is no differant, as everyone with a military likes to think of themselves as being paticularly fierce even if outgunned and outteched by larger and more wealthy countries.
Generally speaking though the SEALS are probably the best special forces organization in the world. The reason for this is that they are a rescue team as much as a destructive military force. All of the responsibilities that the USA has taken upon itself has also lead to us having a lot more experienced people in our special operations community, and more refined training programs. This doesn't mean that the special ops. teams of other countries have done nothing but train and drink Coffee all day, but all of that stuff we poke our noses into that people complain about, and the global policing we're involved in produces larger numbers of combat veterans than a lot of other countries. If you've listened to some of the arguements made about the goverment providing benefits to soldiers, the numbers quoted seem pretty bad, but also point out that we have more guys that regularly see combat than most other nations, with the possible exceptions of Russia and China with their civil issues (and they don't provide numbers). Things like us being involved in keeping down piracy around Asia and Africa (even if "The War On Terror" and tensions with Korea have caused us to do this considerably less and other nations to pick up a lot of the slack) created issues with people demanding combat veteran benefits and the like without having actually been in a war. More to the point however, when you have hostage criseses and boat invasions in places around Somolia, it's guys like the SEALS that go in to deal with it. Other nations *DO* get involved in this, especially now, but generally not as much as we have been doing. The SEALS are also the guys who would be deployed to say assist people in a boat in a storm in a lot of cases as well, which is why I say they are a rescue team as much as anything. You don't send Joe Sailor out in situations like that, and again we act globally to an extent most nations really don't.
Don't misunderstand this, I'm not saying the SAS is greatly inferior, or blows chips or anything, simply that I don't think it has quite the current levels of experience, or as good a program as groups like the SEALS or Delta Force do. Of course involvement in "The War On Terror" is probably going to change this since the Brits have their military up to their ears in it as much as we do.
I'd also point out that for all the so-called "Brainwashing", the USA is it's own worst critic. As Yahtzee pointed out with "Modern Warfare" (the original) the USA was presented as a group of Gung-Ho morons who went in guns blazing without a care in the world, while it was the Brits sneaking around cleaning everything up. While this plays to international perceptions as well as domestic anti-American sentiment, it's hardly accurate, especially seeing as the first objective of the military in the US is disapline. It's funny to see people making criticisms like that, and then making arguements about how our soldiers are turned into obeidient killing machines through conditioning in Boot Camp. Politics pretty much undermine any real discussion of the subject.
That said,
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Let's throw out the Urban dictionary comment, because it's extremely unlikely he's older than 15, and even less likely he's in the military at all.
Next, you bring up a total of two cases. Two. I bet I can find more people who said "Man, I love chocolate bars" and then were hit by lightning, but that doesn't mean people who like chocolate bars get hit by lightning more often.
Let's think about this. Is Britain currently involved in any wars at the scale the U.S is currently, and is the British military the same size as the US military? No, on both fronts. That means these cases will occur more for US soldier no matter what, because there simply are more US soldiers.
Second, in the past, when Britain (and the US) was involved in more major wars, these cases were either the norm, or went unreported the majority of times. Basically, the British could be the same or worse about this, but no-one knows because they aren't currently engaged in a publicly hated war in the age of Wiki-leaks and the internet in general.
Next, you bring up a total of two cases. Two. I bet I can find more people who said "Man, I love chocolate bars" and then were hit by lightning, but that doesn't mean people who like chocolate bars get hit by lightning more often.
Let's think about this. Is Britain currently involved in any wars at the scale the U.S is currently, and is the British military the same size as the US military? No, on both fronts. That means these cases will occur more for US soldier no matter what, because there simply are more US soldiers.
Second, in the past, when Britain (and the US) was involved in more major wars, these cases were either the norm, or went unreported the majority of times. Basically, the British could be the same or worse about this, but no-one knows because they aren't currently engaged in a publicly hated war in the age of Wiki-leaks and the internet in general.
As for the Urbandictionary entry, it's something written on an "anyone can edit" website by some random dude or dudette, so it's hardly a solid source for the foundation of anything.
There's not an awful lot of sensible discussion to be had in regards to which covert operations military unit is most succesful, seeing as most of what they do is, strangely enough, covert.
There's not an awful lot of sensible discussion to be had in regards to which covert operations military unit is most succesful, seeing as most of what they do is, strangely enough, covert.
I think moviebob said it best really.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1523-Green-Zone
Starts at about 2.39
The US as a nation tends to come off as Massively arrogant which personally I suspect is a cover for a kind of national insecurity. The US is ultimately a young country, possibly the youngest with any real power. The pub I grew up in is older than entire city's in the US and while I agree fully with the basic idea the states were founded on (as far as I can tell that is) the reality is a long way from it.
It kinda reminds me of a teenager trying to push boundaries and carve out a place for itself in the world caught between trying to work out who it is and being angry and frustrated at the rest of the world for not really accepting it. The strongest kid on the block is ultimately still just a kid sometimes.
[/massivegeneralisations]
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1523-Green-Zone
Starts at about 2.39
The US as a nation tends to come off as Massively arrogant which personally I suspect is a cover for a kind of national insecurity. The US is ultimately a young country, possibly the youngest with any real power. The pub I grew up in is older than entire city's in the US and while I agree fully with the basic idea the states were founded on (as far as I can tell that is) the reality is a long way from it.
It kinda reminds me of a teenager trying to push boundaries and carve out a place for itself in the world caught between trying to work out who it is and being angry and frustrated at the rest of the world for not really accepting it. The strongest kid on the block is ultimately still just a kid sometimes.
[/massivegeneralisations]
Didn't the SAS, as a defense entity, basically write the Book on Counter-Terrorism, especially when it comes to handling aircraft-based (hostage) situations? That's pretty damn impressive, in and of itself, without needing to compare and (arbitrarily) pick one group as superior!
Spec ops are determined by what they specialize in, SEALS are underwater demolition experts who can also engage in combat effectively. Isralei Commandos are the best at counter-terrorism and combat but I don't here much about midnight beach insertions. SAS is highly trained in urban combat and counter terrorism as well. This is why different branches from around the world train together (learn combat tactics in Israel, learn to navigate in rough surf while strapping C4 to a boat in BUDS, learn to clear a room with hostages from SAS, etc).
Basically, saying any one is better then the other is kind of silly, it depends on what needs to be done (similar to why there are different military branches). Why not ask if a Top Gun Ace is as good as a Force Recon sniper? They're different!
And honestly, at that level it's splitting hairs deciding who's better. Any person from any of those groups could kill any of us anytime they felt like it, and probably not get caught either.
Would you want to fight a SEAL, a Commando, an SAS or a Spesnatz? It doesn't really matter, if you did the results would be exactly the same.
Basically, saying any one is better then the other is kind of silly, it depends on what needs to be done (similar to why there are different military branches). Why not ask if a Top Gun Ace is as good as a Force Recon sniper? They're different!
And honestly, at that level it's splitting hairs deciding who's better. Any person from any of those groups could kill any of us anytime they felt like it, and probably not get caught either.
Would you want to fight a SEAL, a Commando, an SAS or a Spesnatz? It doesn't really matter, if you did the results would be exactly the same.