An instance of piracy being okay?

[Lawyer105]

snip

Are you sure about the payment systems there? I'd be surprised if there wasn't some sort of volume based commission / royalty or something going to the devs.

That said, I totally agree that stomping up and down on the people that actually ARE purchasing your product is not a good way to get back at the people that are stealing it. Carrot works way better than stick, and it looks like they're starting to figure it out, with DLC, Proj$10 etc.

Also, I think your idea about reselling being fine is kinda flawed. If I purchased a physical item (say, a car), I could sell that on to a friend when I didn't want it any more. He'd be getting a second hand car, not a new one, so the manufacturer hasn't lost out.

However, arguably a game isn't like a car. It's not a physical product (well... it doesn't have to be anyways). Ultimately, what you're purchasing (and what the dev/pub is selling) is the experience of the game. If you onsell that, then the second hand customer is getting a brand new experience - not a second hand one... he's receiving the original product essentially. The closest analogy I can come up with now is a painting. If I painted this truly awesome painting that everybody wanted to see, I could charge people to experience it. How do you justify the argument that "well, now that I've purchased a ticket and looked at your painting, I'm done with it, so I'll sell my ticket on to a mate to he can look at it too". That's kinda what you're saying, and I just can't see that it's right.

 

[ZiggyE]

An instance of piracy being okay?

None.

But it's always cute to hear people try to justify themselves. Silly pirates.

Having a good time up there on your moral high horse?

Its hard not to have a moral high ground when you're talking about piracy.

People like to pretend that the piracy debate is somehow subjective. Where stealing is a matter of opinion

As if stealing software for personal entertainment is fine if..... Like.... You have children who are starving and eat software to survive or something.

If Extra Credits, guys who actually make games, say there are suitable conditions when they would let you pirate their games, I believe that certain situations should at least be up for consideration, than instantly dismissing them.

Otherwise I agree, in most cases, Piracy is completely unjustified.

 

[FoolKiller]

In my opinion, though I never do it, piracy is ok under one of two circumstances
1)Its ok to pirate a game currently still being sold new by retailers if you previously purchased the game and lost it/it got destroyed

Frankly, I don't even consider this piracy. They (the companies) like to bash us over the head that buying the disc doesn't mean we own the game, just that we have the rights to play the game. In that case, any time my disc/cartridge/etc. becomes unplayable I can obtain any version I want as I have already paid for the rights to use the software.

 

[Dejawesp]

If Extra Credits, guys who actually make games, say there are suitable conditions when they would let you pirate their games, I believe that certain situations should at least be up for consideration, than instantly dismissing them.

Otherwise I agree, in most cases, Piracy is completely unjustified.

If you have the owners permission then it's hardly piracy. He is free to offer up his games in any way he likes.

 

[SoulSalmon]

I tend to pirate things with DRM, I'm not going to pay for a version of the game that's inferior to the one I can get for free... and I grab No-CD cracks for all the games I buy for conveniences sake.

Quite frankly, piracy is wrong no matter what the reason, but that just doesn't stop anyone 8D.

I love you. I love your group of people and I love the world you built around yourself and now complain about

*imgsnip*

Yep, bit of a recurring problem, the only thing is; at the end of the day I don't CARE if things come out with DRM, it just means it's suddenly free.
Yeah I'm a hypocrite, so what, depending on which stats you go by over half the human population is.

For the record, please don't lump me with the people who complain about things that they helped cause. I'm a hypocritical arsehole, not a moron.

*Snippty*

Might want to not admit this. The Escapist is pretty strict about admission to piracy.

If this were true Id've been banned long ago.
So would a fair few other people I can see traipsing around not-banned.

Please take a look at the rules [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct] and show me the anti-piracy part?

 

[ZiggyE]

If Extra Credits, guys who actually make games, say there are suitable conditions when they would let you pirate their games, I believe that certain situations should at least be up for consideration, than instantly dismissing them.

Otherwise I agree, in most cases, Piracy is completely unjustified.

If you have the owners permission then it's hardly piracy. He is free to offer up his games in any way he likes.

They were giving people permission to pirate it in conditions when they consider it justified. Such as being in a region of the world where it is not available for purchase.

 

[Just_A_Glitch]

*Snippty*

Might want to not admit this. The Escapist is pretty strict about admission to piracy.

If this were true Id've been banned long ago.
So would a fair few other people I can see traipsing around not-banned.

Please take a look at the rules [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct] and show me the anti-piracy part?

I'm just saying plenty of people have been put on probation/suspended for admission to piracy.

 

[ZiggyE]

*Snippty*

Might want to not admit this. The Escapist is pretty strict about admission to piracy.

If this were true Id've been banned long ago.
So would a fair few other people I can see traipsing around not-banned.

Please take a look at the rules [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct] and show me the anti-piracy part?

I suppose having "Respect for Others" could be vaguely interpreted as having respect for a companies copyright, but that isn't what it says in the definition.

Really, if they don't want people to talk about it, they should add it to the rules. Otherwise it really is quite unfair to ban someone for it when it doesn't explicitly state otherwise.

 

[Hader]

Woah there. Take Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Mother 3. Neither game was released outside of Japan. Is it wrong for someone to play those games on an emulator?

That doesn't make it legal.

So.fucking.what.

This is the worst argument ever. Laws are a product of lobbies and people, and people make mistakes, not to mention many laws (especially IP laws) are created to serve companies and hinder people.

I didn't know facts where horrible arguments. Duly noted.

If you want to argue against the law, then be my guest. I am not saying I support it myself. I am stating an important fact many just seem to plain forget.

A general response to the plethora of quoted messages I received overnight: Please stop bullshitting me with the ethics of piracy. It's not as if I don't see both sides of the issue. But I have worked at least two positions/jobs where piracy was taken very seriously, because it is the law. I will not post my views on the morality of piracy as that is something I do not wish to get into. But fucks sake, piracy is still illegal. I have had to tell people this time and time again, and one forum I moderated gave out warnings for advocating things like piracy. Why? Because it's illegal. That's just a fact of life right now.

 

[SoulSalmon]

I'm just saying plenty of people have been put on probation/suspended for admission to piracy.

Well, I suppose thanks for pointing it out.
But yeah if I do end up banned for something that isn't aganst the rules then I need to reconsider where I spend my time

Really, if they don't want people to talk about it, they should add it to the rules. Otherwise it really is quite unfair to ban someone for it when it doesn't explicitly state otherwise.

Well I've only seen hearsay about them cracking down on pirates so maybe they actually don't care and thats why it isn't in the rules?
But yeah, agreed pretty much.


I'm starting to derail things a bit here, so yeah... I'll shut up

 

[Heathrow]

See, that's the problem. Most people think I'm a lonely, unlikely exception. But this kind of piracy is quite more extended than most people think.

You know VALVe's approach to piracy? turn them over with good games, good service, provide people with something that's actually worth their money? It works. It works beautifully well.

You're hardly alone, I'd say all the pirates I know follow your philosophy.

The problem is that there are a whole lots and lots and lots of people who pirate instead of buying games simply because they can and don't have to pay for them. If a handful of people sincerely pirates just to "try them" and then buy them that does not in any way redeem the pirating movement.

We can't just have the pirating part for people who buy it anyway without also having the leeches get free games for no money. Its none or all. And as a whole. Piracy has to go.

I understand you may have opinions on piracy but if you haven't pirated and you don't know any pirates how accurate can your preconceptions be?

[P]iracy is still illegal. I have had to tell people this time and time again, and one forum I moderated gave out warnings for advocating things like piracy. Why? Because it's illegal. That's just a fact of life right now.

Not everywhere. This is the internet you might not necessarily be talking to people with the same legal system you have. More to the point what made you think people were forgetting that piracy is illegal? It seems far more likely, to me, that people just don't care.

You can view the world through a legal lens and concern yourself with what is or isn't legal, or you can focus on a moral lens and ask deeper questions about why things are right or wrong. Pragmatic fear of law is not the end of the discussion.

 

[Dejawesp]

If Extra Credits, guys who actually make games, say there are suitable conditions when they would let you pirate their games, I believe that certain situations should at least be up for consideration, than instantly dismissing them.

Otherwise I agree, in most cases, Piracy is completely unjustified.

If you have the owners permission then it's hardly piracy. He is free to offer up his games in any way he likes.

They were giving people permission to pirate it in conditions when they consider it justified. Such as being in a region of the world where it is not available for purchase.

His software. His decision. Completely and utterly irrelevant to the argument. Piracy is about people pirating companies software without their consent and how it is in fact wrong. I didn't see anyone put forth the argument how its wrong to copy someone's software with the owners consent. Though that certainly would make for some easy mode debating on the pro-piracy side for a change. Not that anyone invoked that argument in the first place.

 

[Lawyer105]

If this were true Id've been banned long ago.
So would a fair few other people I can see traipsing around not-banned.

Please take a look at the rules [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/codeofconduct] and show me the anti-piracy part?

For reference:

Use Our Forums Appropriately
Our forums are a place to talk with like-minded people, not a place to advertise your blog or YouTube channel. Your profile has a place for such things, and that is where it should stay. Similarly, posts including, advocating, or linking to illegal or adult material are a very quick way to end your time as part of The Escapist community.

Personally, I think it comes completely down to:
a) whether anybody reports the post (otherwise the mods don't see it);
b) whether a mod stumbles across it anyway (and is energetic enough to deal with it rather than the HUGE pile of /report spamming his inbox); and
c) the massive variability in moderators - it really just depends on who picks you up on it.

I've seen a mod suspend somebody for calling somebody else's IDEA stupid, and I've seen the mods totally ignore somebody calling somebody else a "racist, nazi bigot". It seems to depend on who you get and the mood they're in.

Given all that, I'd say it's more accurate to say "You haven't been banned YET" rather than "They don't ban for this" or whatever.

 

[Just_A_Glitch]

I'm just saying plenty of people have been put on probation/suspended for admission to piracy.

Well, I suppose thanks for pointing it out.
But yeah if I do end up banned for something that isn't aganst the rules then I need to reconsider where I spend my time

I know for a fact that something along "anti-piracy" was in the old copy of the rules, and I do find it odd that there isn't anything in the new set. Maybe its just become so commonplace...

 

[Jazoni89]

Woah there. Take Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Mother 3. Neither game was released outside of Japan. Is it wrong for someone to play those games on an emulator?

That doesn't make it legal.

So, what are you, the fun police?

So all of us persona fans will be denied to play the game, just because the only way to play it is to play it illegally?

We can't help what companies do, it's their fault for not releasing the game over here in the first place.

For example, their's no way I can play Earthbound without the use of emulation. I would a hundred per cent buy it if their was another way to play it (hell, i would probably buy a wii for it), but Nintendo is so stuck up their own arse that they won't release it over here in the EU.

How can I not play the best Rpg on the Super Nintendo. Their is no other way for me to play, and i wish i didn't have to emulate it, but Nintendo left me with no choice but to.

(To the mods: I know I'm admitting to piracy on this forum, but this is one case i hope you can let slide, because i needed to prove my point)

 

[Rauten]

I am stating an important fact many just seem to plain forget.

Well here's another fact many seem to forget: what's illegal in your country might not be in mine.

Everytime this discussion shows up, there are loads of people just saying "it's illegal, the end".
Well guess what, it is not illegal in my country, as long as you're not trying to use piracy for your own economical benefit (as in, make money out of piracy).

 

[The Lugz]

where most arguments with software piracy fall right on their ass is
no, you cant legally or morally play cod ( or whatever you like ) by downloading it off a torrent, and claim that prices / whatever are unfair and it's a monopoly and you can only play by paying prices you don't agree with BECAUSE, and get this cause it's true.. there are many other cheaper versions and you have every option in the world to go download another, perhaps even a free game.
it's not a monopoly, nobody can own the shooting genre, all you're paying for is a set of textures and model-files at the end of the day, think about it..

if you don't like the product, the price or the inconveniences it may or may not have then find one that suits you, ripping it off is just saying i really want it but i'm cheap ass!
so Clearly, it's unfair because it suits me.

find a company that produces games you like at reasonable prices and buy their products, you're doing more for gaming with a single decision like that than with a whole forum full of complaints about game prices

 

[Drakos.Amatras]

Law is still the law.

But law does not equal morality. For example, it's illegal to buy alcohol in New York on Sunday before noon. Does this mean that buying alcohol is immoral before noon and then suddenly becomes moral? Piracy being illegal doesn't invalidate this thread's question.

Congratulations on drummond13: You recognize a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_law] fallacy [http://utahliberty.org/blog/logical-fallacy-series-appeal-to-law] when you see one.

I'm all for supporting the developers, no arguments; this is how they can, at the minimum, keep themselves sustained for their next project. But condemning every single people who pirates? Definitely among the pirates are people who genuinely want to buy the thing(s), but can't for various reasons - availability or budget. I'm not gonna declare them morally inferior just because the government [http://fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html] or other people [http://fallacyfiles.org/bandwagn.html] want to. I'd rather comment on a case-by-case.

 

[LiudvikasT]

1st: You tell your friends to try it out, and generate revenue for the game studio.
2nd: You purchase the expansion/DLC/part 2 of the game, and generate further revenue.

If you hadn't pirated the game, the studio would have none of that. Note that I am NOT condoning piracy and I pay for everything on my computer, but there are ways that it can work in the favor of the game studios themselves.

Because that never happens. You pirate the game. See that the game is great. Hand your friends a copy of the pirated version of the game so they can try it as well and they share it with their friends

Then when expansions and DLCs are released you pirate those as well.
Weren't you around during the mid 90's cd swapping?


That pirates somehow help the gaming industry by distributing their software for free is such a delusional pipe dream I nearly vomit all over it when I hear it.

1. What if your friends are not pirates and buy the game?
2. What if you have only limited amount of money and buy only some games and pirate the rest. You might buy sequels because you liked the original.
Pirating might not help, but I really doubt it harms gaming industry. It's not like pirates have sacks of money, that they saved because they pirated a lot of games.