I always thought that aspects of modern japanese culture were actually influenced by the west. So, in a way westerner's are trying to understand japan's understanding of western culture.
I haven't done much (practically any) research on this, going on something I think I heard somewhere, once... so take my last two sentences with a grain of salt. Feel free to correct me or add to that point, though.
I know you have good intentions but you really should do a little homework before doing stuff like this.
1: The "Angels" from Eva is a product of the English translation while the original was merely Messenger.
2: The reason you see Trigun as a good use of Christianity is because The creator is Christian.
I don't really see the value of this long essay, it's all over the place and I feel like it doesn't have a good central point. And describing anime characters as SO deep just sounds like animu kid nonsense to me (not that I have of enough experience to counter you.)
For me the biggest difference between western and Japanese animation is that anime characters are more over detailed and animate less fluidly as a result. I guess it's a result of about 50 percent of anime being based off of non-animation like Manga and Visual Novels, designs that aren't made to be animated but are instead used for cool poses. So I pretty much think anime animation largely sucks and I don't enjoy it much (cue someone posting a well animated anime sequence and ignoring the other 70 percent of that show which is looped animations and still frames.)
I don't think Manga, which is basically the parent medium of anime, get's enough credit. There are some actually good sequential artist at work in that field and the Manga artist are the ones usually coming up with the interesting stories.
A general list of things I need to respond to, and for the love of all that is good: Keep this from becoming a rant or a flame war! Please keep this civil on all sides of the debate!
1. I am not saying Japan is superior in its animation, just not afraid to go into different areas of the entertainment industry, which sadly include areas man was not meant to go into.
2. There is no excuse for the blatant and degrading uses of erotic in anime in the same way there is no excuse to have in live action television and movies. Like I said in my sensuality post, we have it just as bad and while it's not always wanted, we need to fix the issues in our own entertainment industries first. Sorry but even though this is a pretty big issue, its one where it's largely the pot calling the kettle black.
3.Is Japan any more repressive of women then the western world? That we westerners are any better then they are at women's rights? Maybe in a couple of countries and State sort two here and there, but not as much. Yes, they are backwards in several areas, but then again so the hell are we in just as many areas.
4. Stripperific outfits: Never played the last couple of Mortal Kombat games? Have you seen how several outfits many super heroins done, even in kids shows? What about the traditional Chain mail thong women wear in the mass majority of fantasy games, table top or otherwise.
5.Anime is
6. All that said and done, something I forgot to mention in the sex and anime post was this: The Japanese are equal opportunity offenders, catering to gays, straits, and so forth. Moa to Bishi, Loli to shota, the female audience is just as horny over there and anime artists have been catering them for a while now (hell Ouran Host Club was made to poke fun of that).
When Jesuit priests first started preaching Christianity to Japan, many warlords didn't think much on their teachings, however they thought crucifixion was a cool way to kill someone and used it in their executions. So when we see it used in anime, it may not be as significant to the Japanese as it is to most westerners.
Christianity: responsible for innovative ways the Diamyo tortured his peasants! Salvation and enlightenment not included in the Crucifixion Package.
Up until some westernization, the Japanese people had nothing against homosexuality. They even didn't think twice about two men having a loving relationship.
And you give the list of domestic responsibilities that feminists have characterized as the chains of male-imposed slavery. Telling a woman to clean and buy groceries does not empower her.
But there is something else: You see more strong women characters in Japanese film then in at least the American, and many western.
Who? And are they dressed to entice men, with fetishist clothing? Are they sex symbols to be exploited or are they legitimate female protagonists? the Escapists just finished with this whole thing on women's role in video games a few weeks ago, maybe you missed it.
...but you'll be more likely to see a female character that can hold her own in a bar brawl in that when compared to most western material. Why is this the case? Well besides sex sells, many men find that a woman that can kick their butt is hot and women love a strong female character, and the fact women characters are pretty easy to make sexy, the Japanese have more mythos and history of strong women and girls, and we lack that to a certain degree.
So even if they're jailbait - they can fight well and are gorgeous and that's what's most important. Looks and combat - really pounding the women's lib drum.
Another area that is generally different from at least an American standpoint, more shades of grey in their entertainment.
So you're saying that anime has demonstrated greater potential in subtlety.
The history is another thing that's different. While medieval knights died out at the start of the dawn of gunpowder, Samurai often adapted to it, though most preferred the more traditional weapons as close combat was where they found their honor. Still, the samurai warrior survived up until the mid to late 1800's when the last samurai revolt had ended in a one sided battle (Guess who won). That said, they have a stronger connection to their past, in the same way America did with cowboys.
So Samurai are better at history than Medieval Knights, and were better at adapting to changing historical circumstances, and are held in higher regard in their culture than chivalry was in Europe. You have to make a connection to American Cowboys to bridge that gap.
You are saying anime is superior, in addition to saying other things about Japanese culture and how it is superior to Western culture. Being the product of Western culture, I feel the need to defend my team.
2. America has porn, totally. I think Los Angeles invented porn, or at least is the home of the modern porn industry - that much is true. And porn is part of Western Culture - it always has been. Think of words like brothel, burlesque, "house if ill repute," and images of distinctly Western buildings will take prevalence.
I'll totally agree that Westerners are horn-dogs, but you saying that when anime does it, it's somehow empowering to women or demonstrative of a superior sexual palette, and that's just retarded. Don't make anime, or it's incestuous sibling hentai, to be anything more than it is.
3. Yes, Japan is more repressive towards women than the Western world. Right now in America, a high-profile lawsuit is being fought regarding how Walmart treats it's female employees. America fights constant battles to ensure women are protected. Does Japan even have equivalent laws? Does equal-protection exist in the Japanese constitution?
4. I thought we were talking about television, frankly I don't know enough about anime video games to comment.
On television, Western media only occasionally makes those dips into the lowest common denominator, whereas that's the place where anime lives. What was the anime equivalent to Home Improvement, The Bill Cosby Show, or Full House? How about The Simpsons? The West will produce a high-quality family-friendly show. The West Wing was a fantastic drama.
What anime features a cast of adults where the women aren't sex-symbols and tentacle rape isn't an everyday hazard for them?
5. Anime is... overhyped?
6. Anime is more willing to go into that dark place Cthulu lives, betraying the society's penchant for vulgar entertainment that dehumanize women and exposes the perversions of the audience: the Japanese male.
You said it, sex sells. And in no market is sex more prevalent than in Japanese television. I'm an American who lives in Los Angeles, and yes I am saying that.
^ what he said.
Also for many that I have seen, their politics on the shows don't make any sense. (Think it was a gundam show that is my best example where they tried to stop all war by attacking anyone who tried to fight)
Good stuff, though you didn't bring up one of the things I think it most important; anime is not "cartoons." Simply meaning, many people think of violence in anime like if Spongebob started bloodily shooting up Bikini Bottom, but that's not how it is. Anime is no less serious or more silly than live action. In the West we've gotten used to animation being used for nothing more than silly cartoons and adult comedies, with the exception of a few particular movie studios that, even then, are often looked upon as kid's stuff (Disney, Pixar, the occasional good Dreamworks film). So many people just don't understand that, in Japan, no one goes, "Well I want to make a gritty crime drama, but I can't do it if it's animated." They freaking do it. They tell all sorts of stories. Animation has almost been reduced to a genre in the west, but in Japan it is most definitely still a filmic medium unto itself, every bit as diverse and capable as live-action film.
Good stuff, though you didn't bring up one of the things I think it most important; anime is not "cartoons." Simply meaning, many people think of violence in anime like if Spongebob started bloodily shooting up Bikini Bottom, but that's not how it is. Anime is no less serious or more silly than live action. In the West we've gotten used to animation being used for nothing more than silly cartoons and adult comedies, with the exception of a few particular movie studios that, even then, are often looked upon as kid's stuff (Disney, Pixar, the occasional good Dreamworks film). So many people just don't understand that, in Japan, no one goes, "Well I want to make a gritty crime drama, but I can't do it if it's animated." They freaking do it. They tell all sorts of stories. Animation has almost been reduced to a genre in the west, but in Japan it is most definitely still a filmic medium unto itself, every bit as diverse and capable as live-action film.
And then they go and ruin any amount of tension the show might have built up by having ridiculous elements like mecha or aliens juxtaposed with the hero.
It'd be like if C.J. exited the White House press room via Portal Gun.
Good stuff, though you didn't bring up one of the things I think it most important; anime is not "cartoons." Simply meaning, many people think of violence in anime like if Spongebob started bloodily shooting up Bikini Bottom, but that's not how it is. Anime is no less serious or more silly than live action. In the West we've gotten used to animation being used for nothing more than silly cartoons and adult comedies, with the exception of a few particular movie studios that, even then, are often looked upon as kid's stuff (Disney, Pixar, the occasional good Dreamworks film). So many people just don't understand that, in Japan, no one goes, "Well I want to make a gritty crime drama, but I can't do it if it's animated." They freaking do it. They tell all sorts of stories. Animation has almost been reduced to a genre in the west, but in Japan it is most definitely still a filmic medium unto itself, every bit as diverse and capable as live-action film.
And then they go and ruin any amount of tension the show might have built up by having ridiculous elements like mecha or aliens juxtaposed with the hero.
It'd be like if C.J. exited the White House press room via Portal Gun.
When Jesuit priests first started preaching Christianity to Japan, many warlords didn't think much on their teachings, however they thought crucifixion was a cool way to kill someone and used it in their executions. So when we see it used in anime, it may not be as significant to the Japanese as it is to most westerners.
Christianity: responsible for innovative ways the Diamyo tortured his peasants! Salvation and enlightenment not included in the Crucifixion Package.
Up until some westernization, the Japanese people had nothing against homosexuality. They even didn't think twice about two men having a loving relationship.
And you give the list of domestic responsibilities that feminists have characterized as the chains of male-imposed slavery. Telling a woman to clean and buy groceries does not empower her.
But there is something else: You see more strong women characters in Japanese film then in at least the American, and many western.
Who? And are they dressed to entice men, with fetishist clothing? Are they sex symbols to be exploited or are they legitimate female protagonists? the Escapists just finished with this whole thing on women's role in video games a few weeks ago, maybe you missed it.
...but you'll be more likely to see a female character that can hold her own in a bar brawl in that when compared to most western material. Why is this the case? Well besides sex sells, many men find that a woman that can kick their butt is hot and women love a strong female character, and the fact women characters are pretty easy to make sexy, the Japanese have more mythos and history of strong women and girls, and we lack that to a certain degree.
So even if they're jailbait - they can fight well and are gorgeous and that's what's most important. Looks and combat - really pounding the women's lib drum.
Another area that is generally different from at least an American standpoint, more shades of grey in their entertainment.
So you're saying that anime has demonstrated greater potential in subtlety.
The history is another thing that's different. While medieval knights died out at the start of the dawn of gunpowder, Samurai often adapted to it, though most preferred the more traditional weapons as close combat was where they found their honor. Still, the samurai warrior survived up until the mid to late 1800's when the last samurai revolt had ended in a one sided battle (Guess who won). That said, they have a stronger connection to their past, in the same way America did with cowboys.
So Samurai are better at history than Medieval Knights, and were better at adapting to changing historical circumstances, and are held in higher regard in their culture than chivalry was in Europe. You have to make a connection to American Cowboys to bridge that gap.
You are saying anime is superior, in addition to saying other things about Japanese culture and how it is superior to Western culture. Being the product of Western culture, I feel the need to defend my team.
2. America has porn, totally. I think Los Angeles invented porn, or at least is the home of the modern porn industry - that much is true. And porn is part of Western Culture - it always has been. Think of words like brothel, burlesque, "house if ill repute," and images of distinctly Western buildings will take prevalence.
I'll totally agree that Westerners are horn-dogs, but you saying that when anime does it, it's somehow empowering to women or demonstrative of a superior sexual palette, and that's just retarded. Don't make anime, or it's incestuous sibling hentai, to be anything more than it is.
3. Yes, Japan is more repressive towards women than the Western world. Right now in America, a high-profile lawsuit is being fought regarding how Walmart treats it's female employees. America fights constant battles to ensure women are protected. Does Japan even have equivalent laws? Does equal-protection exist in the Japanese constitution?
4. I thought we were talking about television, frankly I don't know enough about anime video games to comment.
On television, Western media only occasionally makes those dips into the lowest common denominator, whereas that's the place where anime lives. What was the anime equivalent to Home Improvement, The Bill Cosby Show, or Full House? How about The Simpsons? The West will produce a high-quality family-friendly show. The West Wing was a fantastic drama.
What anime features a cast of adults where the women aren't sex-symbols and tentacle rape isn't an everyday hazard for them?
5. Anime is... overhyped?
6. Anime is more willing to go into that dark place Cthulu lives, betraying the society's penchant for vulgar entertainment that dehumanize women and exposes the perversions of the audience: the Japanese male.
You said it, sex sells. And in no market is sex more prevalent than in Japanese television. I'm an American who lives in Los Angeles, and yes I am saying that.
Half of that I'm going to direct to the last one I did, http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.266706-Anime-and-the-Issues-We-Have-With-It-Sensuality#10179791 , and to post 27.
Thought we were talking about TV? I had already talked about sex and violence, and cultural differences is one of the better arguments against anime as its different and people like to do what's familiar to them.
and some of the things you mentioned about japan and women, do not kid your self that doesn't happen here in America. We may have progressed a long ways since our parents were kids, but we are still pretty archaic in many areas, and we still need to grow. If not, would there still be feminists pushing women's rights in the streets, and Sarah Palin and Hilary Clinton being the Two most powerful women in the country when it comes to the number of supporters they have (with all that implies?).
saint of m, your response is for me to read another thread and that also America sucks too.
I would have said America's most powerful women are Oprah, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton (and why not her?), Michele Bachmann, Janet Napolitano, Laura Ingraham, Jan Brewer, and whoever is the current first lady, in this case Michele Obama.
And that's not a proper response when your premise is that Japanese culture and anime by extension are superior. You can't say they're superior and then backpedal into "well, they're only as bad as the alternatives."
And I'm waiting for you to name for me the anime counterparts to my short list of wholesome family-values shows. I accept that anime is to the Japanese what live-action shows are to Westerners, and for this conversation I'll just accept American as synonymous with the West.
But you have not made the compelling argument that anime is anything more than porn in the hardcore or softcore varieties. It's difficult to take anime seriously when women are treated that way, and the plot devices for the show are cartoonish beyond the artistic medium.
But, if you'd like, I'll do a quick commentary on your linked thread:
When it comes to the argument of whether anime is a good thing or a bad thing, this is one of the big hot topic issues. As far as the world is concerned sexual content in high amounts is generally seen as ok, and it isn't until we get to high levels of violence that the world starts going crazy. In the United States, the reverse is true where we can handle insane amounts of violence in our media but oh how we fear the all mighty power of the Nipple.
That's a fair criticism - but if you're going to sell to an American audience, you have to deal with it. If your product is culturally incompatible to the tastes of the audience, then better find another market or change the product.
But if we're going nuts over this, the film industry in Hollywood must be pure, right? Right (insert laugh track here).
Insulting the thing that every filmmaker and TV show producer wants to emulate does not help your case. Hollywood is the gold-standard. Again, take it or leave it. You can be bitter, but if that's the case keep it to yourself. Are you pro-anime or simply anti-American?
(paraphrasing) Animation in America is marketed towards children, whereas animation in Japan also includes adult audiences. The consequence to this is a lower American tolerance for adult content in what has traditionally been the realm of children's shows.
So again, you're bitching that (mainstream) American culture is incompatible with Japanese anime, resulting in anime being marginalized by the casual consumer. You're mad that you can't sell guns to pacifists (metaphorically speaking). Change the product or deal with it.
Kids stuff than, and even today from time to time, did not have the best writers and budgets as the thinking is why waste the good stuff on our children.
Batman: TAS was an excellent show, created for children and appreciated by adults. I believe that you start with entertainment for children, and then scale it up. Pixar is a master at this technique, creating animated content that is palatable for all audiences. You started your post presuming that any entertainment that's worth anything must be sexual or violent. I disagree.
I greatly respect entertainment that can perform its function without swearing, violence, or sexuality. Why are those elements needed? Sure, a sturdy "fuck" can enhance any joke, but Disney has been able to market a successful brand for almost 90 years. It is wrong to think entertainment must have adult content to be interesting or entertaining. I wonder if that sort of wrong thinking is what got anime into the mess of quality that it's in - anime is leaning on tits like a crutch because that's the best they can produce.
Plus adults have this nasty habit of talking down to children instead of at them. It also didn't help that the moral guardians kept a very short leash and a choke collar on the studios to beguine with.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here, it's like you're exploiting every opportunity to bash Americans. Yes, children need talking down to, because they're being whiny brats who think they know better than their parents. And when your child acts irrationally or in a self-destructive manner, you'll attempt to reason with it? You think you can deconstruct the decision-tree of an 8 year old?
This is one of the reasons we edited the hell out of Dragon Ball Z, Robo Tech, Sailor Moon, and even with the Toonami line up with Yu Yu Hakusho and Outlaw Star to make em kid friendly.
I have questions:
[ul][li]Why was it necessary to edit the show's content? Why did the shows need to be so gratuitously sexual/violent?[/li]
[li]Despite it's edited form, why did the quality of the show not attract an adult American audience?[/li]
[li]How well do American cartoons fair in Japan?[/li][/ul]
While this introduced many of us to this new medium, it is still a little confusing as the Japanese do genuinely have a lot of kid stuff...its just not their only target audience and they know it.
They have kid stuff? Like what? Is there where you'll provide that list of family-values programming that I've been asking for?
(paraphrasing) Anime is the thing the kids are into, and luckless parents would mistakenly purchase hentai or other adult-marketed anime products, mistaking it for the innocent animated programming more common in America. These incidents have reached urban-legend proportions resulting in a strong backlash from adults towards anime. The expectation of innocence in animated products comes from a reputation where that is the case from prominent production studios like Warner Bros. and Disney, dating back over 80 years.
[ul][li]Why is the anime indistinguishable from hentai?[/li]
[li]You're repeating yourself, for the 3rd time, the same point. American audiences are not looking for adult content in an animated format, yes, we get it. Elaborate or move on. You repeat this point like it's a deficiency in American character.[/li][/ul]
(paraphrasing) Because of many factors, the anime that was exported to America "in the early days" emphasized the lowest common denominators of human appeal to make the biggest splash. Unfortunately, the low quality of the animes being offered tainted American reaction, resulting in a stigma that lasts to this day.
I might have to paraphrase all of your points because your ideas are very cluttered and disorganized. Let me know if I'm missing any major points.
What you talk about is bad luck. It's tough exporting a product into a new market, much less a new culture. But that's the way it goes.
(paraphrasing) Anime has produced some very disturbing content: tentacle rape, lolita, which is animated girl kiddie porn, and shotacon, which is animated boy kiddie porn. Even the Japanese consider this creepy as fuck.
Yes. But there's no movement to make this illegal, or ban it, or go after the monsters that make it. Animated kiddie porn is your answer when "victimless crimes" are brought up. There are no victims in animated porn, even torture porn, but it's still wrong, and the people who derive pleasure from this need to be institutionalized or incarcerated, not given a blind-eye.
Still, we over sexualize kids anyways to beguine with: Miniskirts and spaghetti straps before they hit puberty; Beauty Pageants; a good number of dolls out there; Is it any wonder someone simply put this in animated form?
But kiddie porn is ok because Americans allow pre-teens to wear spaghetti straps. saint of m, are you fucking retarded? The two are not the same at all. I'm not even going to correct your spelling error.
(paraphrasing) Anime likes schoolgirls for three reasons:
[ul][li]School uniforms means little girls, and anime is the scene for child molesters.[/li]
[li]Creepy guys like to bang little girls and pop their cherries.[/li]
[li]Upskirts.[/li][/ul]
(quoting) This fetish continues into their adult years, and combination of the porn laws again, and the panty shot scene is here. Pretty much its fanservice, and it is there so you can look at that region of the female body without looking at her anatomy. Think Victory Secret Catalogs.
But America has the Victoria's Secret catalog, so it's ok. You are a moron if you think a 9 year old being victimized is at all the same as ogling a magazine of adult women modeling lingerie.
At the tamer end we have the animated equivalent of Three's Company and Are You Being Served where they used misunderstandings, innuendos, and some mishaps more than anything else. At the other end of the spectrum you have the animated equivalent of Skins and HBO's Rome where it is just borderline hard core at times. Still, nothing we haven't seen on cable or satellite in the live action department, right?
So Three's Company is being compared to an anime HBO special in terms of content?
(paraphrasing) In addition, Japan is a post-industrial society characterized by a low-birth rate, pregnancies in older women, and a larger proportion of career-minded women. This has nothing to do with his point, but saint of m mentions it anyway.
(paraphrasing continued) Japan is a conservative society, and it is a pet theory of saint of m's that the more conservative the culture, the more fucked up their porn will be.
Yes, because the vast majority of porn is made in Salt Lake City, Utah, and not Hollywood, California. Utah, being the most conservative state in America, and California, being the most liberal. You're just wrong.
It might just be the fanbase. We are nerds, and we are into some weird stuff, so people will look down on all our interests as nerdy little oddities. There are also the super nerds who, well, can be a wee bit too boisterous and frankly, can scare even the most battle hardened of Otaku. That's right, the super fanboys and fangirls, and this is before I get into the yaoi fangirls.
So anime is primarily consumed by freaks. With an audience like child molesters and rapists and stalkers, then yea, if you watch and enjoy copious amounts of anime, you're probably a freak.
(paraphrasing) Criticisms of anime can be summed up in two arguments:
[ul][li]"Pot calling the kettle black" because what America has produced is just as bad.[/li]
[li]It's the unfortunate reality that anime got off to a poor start in America, a PR defeat that anime may never recover from.[/li][/ul]
No, America has not produced content "just as bad."
[ul][li]There are no American production studios churning out content like tentacle rape or kiddie porn.[/li]
[li]American programming is derided as being sterilized or politically-correct, it does not reinforce sexist notions about the inferiority of women.[/li]
[li]It's been nearly 30 years. by your timeline, since anime had been introduced into American consumption. If it hasn't gotten traction yet, then it's doubtful it ever will.[/li][/ul]
Maybe you need to accept that anime isn't as great as you think it is. Or, get comfortable with the idea that you're a fan of a niched product. I like thinking rationally, which means not comparing kiddie porn with spaghetti straps on a little girl.
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saint of m, the introduction of new information has not helped your case. Instead, you have given your critics the ammunition needed to better debate against anime. You are tolerant of rape and child molestation exploitation and are ignorant of the monstrous consequences such stupidity has towards women and children safety.
You are a public safety nightmare and a catastrophic representative of anime marketing. Based on these points, I recommend you find another hobby. Defending anime against critics does not suit you.
And for anyone who cares, that's how you defeat multiculturalism.
I caught saint of m trying to justify and rationalize kiddie porn and rape. Pretty hard to make the case that foreign cultures are "different but equal" when they involve felonies and entry into the sex offender database.
And for anyone who cares, that's how you defeat multiculturalism.
I caught saint of m trying to justify and rationalize kiddie porn and rape. Pretty hard to make the case that foreign cultures are "different but equal" when they involve felonies and entry into the sex offender database.
I can understand the kiddy porn part as when I mention shatacon when I said woomen are just as bad as men, but come on that is one of those areas mind numbingly disturbing, has no excuse, that even culturally is found rather disturbing in Japan. Do people still film, yes, and I hope one day this garbage gets tossed into the fires of hell for it.
Do I justify it, no I nevr did. Even in my last post on this I never did that, adn was fully on the opposition's side on that and tentacle rape.
Speaking of rape, where the hell did I justify THAT??!!!!!
The part where you describe the situation like an operable tumor that the Japanese don't like, but also aren't interested in removing.
You compare kiddie porn to beauty pageants for children and spaghetti straps. You make comparisons so laughably false that the only conclusion one can come to is that you're trying to diminish the creepiness of tentacle rape.
Why are you making excuses for these atrocities in animation? Why are you even trying to compare these felonies to American behavior? Even if there was a comparison to be made, and there isn't, what makes you think dragging American culture through the mud somehow makes Japanese perversions not-bad?
It's alright for anime to have fucked up content so long as the West is bad too? NO! How about the Japanese clean up their act and the West will do the same. Don't say it's ok for anime to have low standards if you can find some American media that's similarly depraved.
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That you'd even try to make the argument makes me question your moral character. But it's ok; I only think you're ignorant. I don't think you're a monster. You just haven't given these subjects enough thought to know that you're best off just not talking about it.
There are some subjects you just don't talk about. The moral value of anime is one of them. It's a can of worms. Don't bother.
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Ok, I went back and reread your post in the context of my analysis of your linked thread. You are obviously not interested in addressing all aspects of this conversation.
I asked several questions that you won't answer. This broadcasts to me the shallow level of your thinking. I'm not going to put the work into debating this issue if you won't do the same.
And if you even thinking of pulling a "TL;DR" on me, then what the hell, because I waded through two of your monstrous rants, which were both rife with spelling and grammatical errors. You have the writing skills and mental focus of a High School student. Get your shit together man.
When women are depicted in anime, it is fulfilling one of three roles:
[ul][li]the fetishistic chick that men like to masturbate to[/li]
[li]the submissive victims that reinforce Patriarchy, that men need to own women for their own good[/li]
[li]no-character mary sues[/li][/ul]
The most generous I've ever seen an anime be to women was The Last Airbender, and that was an American anime. So does that show even qualify?
Don't twist history to make the argument that animes are progressive towards women or that Japanese culture is somehow superior to American culture, as your undertones clearly express. Women are exploited hardcore for their bodies. Japan has perverts too. Just like in America!
And that's the thing about cultural relativism; different is ok. But sexism is sexism. Every culture has it's highs and lows. And for me, having read about many a culture, god damnit it is a wallbanger to see again and again conversations begin with "don't judge, every culture is unique" and end with "but this culture is better."
well at a start haruhi disagrees with all those points on a general level.
with avatar i agree it portrays women in a fair manner kiyoshi warriors for example but its not the only decent case buso renkin for example had tokiko (a girl) be the best developed character in the story so really i think your misinformed with good intentions
The part where you describe the situation like an operable tumor that the Japanese don't like, but also aren't interested in removing.
You compare kiddie porn to beauty pageants for children and spaghetti straps. You make comparisons so laughably false that the only conclusion one can come to is that you're trying to diminish the creepiness of tentacle rape.
Why are you making excuses for these atrocities in animation? Why are you even trying to compare these felonies to American behavior? Even if there was a comparison to be made, and there isn't, what makes you think dragging American culture through the mud somehow makes Japanese perversions not-bad?
It's alright for anime to have fucked up content so long as the West is bad too? NO! How about the Japanese clean up their act and the West will do the same. Don't say it's ok for anime to have low standards if you can find some American media that's similarly depraved.
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That you'd even try to make the argument makes me question your moral character. But it's ok; I only think you're ignorant. I don't think you're a monster. You just haven't given these subjects enough thought to know that you're best off just not talking about it.
There are some subjects you just don't talk about. The moral value of anime is one of them. It's a can of worms. Don't bother.
When I compared loli to beauty pageants I was making a comparison on how we are just as disturbing as the Japanese. We are sexualizing our youth, taking away their innocence long before such a thing should occur. I thought I made it clear that I hated it as much as you., and for that I do apologize. The only point I was trying to make was we are judging them but we are being judged for the same thing ourselves. Yes its a cancer that deserves radical treatment, but how can we justify Japan to do this when we won't take the chemo to cure this plauge in our own lands? I also seem to remember mentioning it was a vomit inducing topic.
I also didn't try to mitigate the effects of tentacle porn. I said its one of the more disturbing things to come of Japan, and the description I gave of it still fits that. Unless you wanted to spend two more paragraphs ranting on hos bad, or how mind numbingly disturbing it is I don't know what to tell you.
I'm also an American, who loves his country very much, and would would rather live here the rest of his life. That said, I have to call out the BS the US has, and Hollywood seems like a nice place to start.
The fact is I did the Anime and the Issues We Have With It series simply because I found the largest chunk of complaints about anime tend to fall in the The pot calling the Kettle black territory.
I am not blind to the issues anime has, and I thought I made that clear in a few areas. Since I have not, I will make it clear now: Anime has a lot of areas the go into the man was not meant to go into parts of entertainment, and it shows. I do not condone it, and any justification I give is because the western world tends to be just as messed up.
I just do not feel the need to go into denouncing every fallacy Japan has. The Days the samurai had honor died a couple of centuries before they died out; WW2; and so on and so on. There I did.
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