Anime Argument #173

[Tzatziki3301]

Its funny, I'm with you on the Superman / Deus Ex Machina argument. Thinking across all the comics and graphic novels I've read and enjoy, and all the Manga I read and enjoy, it occurs to me that my least favorite heroes are the near-invincible ones. I enjoy the Naruto series vastly more than I enjoy Dragonball Z (to the point of not even finishing either Manga or Anime DBZ... or even TFS's abridged series) mainly due to the apparent invincibility of the heroes.

Now, I'm not rating simply 'hasn't been killed' as invincible, that would mean that 99.9% of main protagonist heroes are invincible, but I mean here in that the character has superpowers or abilities known to us that rank him above and beyond the characters they fight.

Naruto is an underdog. Sure, he is getting really powerful right now (especially if you are keeping up with the translated scans on things like Mangareader) but he has always been at a disadvantage the whole way through. His own deus ex machina moments are usually right at the very end, and usually after a great deal of effort to match the, for want of a better term, power level of his opponent that time. Naruto is also helped by having a much vaster cast of supporting characters that don't simply get overshadowed by Naruto being the hero all the time (Gaara, Shikamaru, Kakashi etc. even Sakura has her moments now). Thats not even going into Sasuke as a mirror of Naruto in many ways.

Goku is a father figure, which immediately makes elevates him to a higher level. In many more ways Gohan is more equivalent to Naruto than Goku is. The question should be 'who is better, 4th Hokage vs Goku, or Kakashi vs Goku', but either way, these are all fun to conjecture on.

I'm not saying DBZ isn't bad, but my fav character was Krillen... so go figure.

 

[negimafan587]

Well after debating this with some friends I've decided imo saiyan saga goku would lose to superman. Freeza saga would be on par or slightly weaker or stronger, and two and up would be over kill. Simply put Goku could destroy planets at ssj 1 but he won't so he would most likely rely on brute strength and fighting ability or basic ki blasts, As not to harm anyone or destroy the earth. Superman although having just about every power under the sun has been show before to be weaker than the heroes with just one of his powers, Like how the flash could easily outrun supes. So superman's powers are practically watered down versions of others powers, aka hes just a jack of all trades. Useful but easily beatable

 

[KrossBillNye]

Vegeta beat Goku twice, it's not like Goku is unbeatable. I'm sure it's possible for Naruto to get one in if they had some sparing matches.

To sit and seriously argue about this would be kinda silly tho.

And just tossing this out there.

Goku pretty much would have died against Broly in the 8th movie.

The only thing that saved him was the combined energy of everyone that gave them their KI, (And the writers deciding, Oh shit... Goku is the hero here... We need to find a way to wrap this up)

 

[Vigilante 989]

light yagami light yagami death note lalala

The death note only works on humans. Goku is an alien space monkey so it wouldn't work on him.

Fuck, Shit, your right.

OK I got it. Use the Death Note to control all the human characters to make them find the dragon balls and wish for Goku to be deaf, dumb, blind, and no limbs.

I hope I didn't miss anything.

 

[Puddleknock]

As always Captain Scarlet makes everything a draw. He has very little way to hurt anyone but no matter what you do to him, he will always survive. Something very British about an immortal who is also shit at most things.

Goku vs Captain Scarlet...draw

 

[xPixelatedx]

Wow, umm... what is there to argue about? Goku can blow up planets (not even kidding). Towards the end of the DBZ series even the weak characters could, its one of the things that made it start to become boring. No matter what Naruto does, he will die once Goku spirit bombs the world.

 

[Lunar Templar]

given how OP Goku is pretty much all the time, i have to ask ...

WHO THE HELL CARES

one crappy character vs another, crappy character, from 2 drawn out, uninteresting series

sides ...

a better match up would be Naruto vs Ichigo

 

[Jessta]

Only character I can think of who might be able to stand up to him pure strength wise is the ultimate Gurren Lagaan that could throw Galaxies.
Also if I remember correctly at the end of the Buu saga they hinted that Goku could go to levels beyond SS3 but he didn't want everyone to feel bad, so SS4 could still theoretically be factored in without actually acknowledging
Goku IS in fact a Deus ex Machinaesque character through out the series Dragon Ball Z, which starred the Z warriors not Goku. (That's why it focused on the progression of their lives and powers not Gokus training in other world) Regular Dragon Ball was the series that showed the life story of Goku and that's why not much changes in his life from the end of Dragon Ball to the end of Dragon Ball Z.
By the end of the series Goku actually did have all the powers of a god in that he could sense anything anywhere in the universe (omniscience) he could then proceed to be anywhere in the universe that he so chose via instantaneous transmission(Omnipresence) had an infinitely immeasurable amount of power (Omnipotence) and was able to forgive anything (Omnibenevolence)
Superman, or any of the cosmic super heroes, wouldn't be able to defeat Goku in that not only would he be as powerful or more, he was also trained to be a fighter, he knew martial arts and how they worked (The only super heroes I can think of that were actually trained for combat were batman (who would lack the power to phase Goku,) and.... I can't think of anyone else, wonder woman maybe? Plus, he could just teleport any of them to hell and leave them there if he so chose.
The only thing Goku had going for him was that he was flat out over powered, and he REALLY had that going for him. Also, Goku did kind of have a kryptonite in his whole Omnibenevolence theme, that would be what got him screwed over most of the time.

 

[ms_sunlight]

Haruhi Suzumiya.

If she wanted it to, the whole universe would change to one where Goku either didn't exist, or wasn't superpowered, or didn't want to fight.

She wouldn't even realise she was doing it.

 

[michael87cn]

You can't defeat or kill Goku/Gokou/Son Gokou.

In the series, he is beaten down many times, even killed and he always comes back and kicks the bad guys ass.

Death Note guy kills him? Pft, he'd be wished up to life or granted his life back as a reward in the alternate universe or something, come back, and kick his ass too.

Guy who throws galaxies? Anyone ever watched DBZ?! Many of the battles become on pretty epic scales...

Superman flying Goku into space? WHAT? You know that Goku can fly too, right? Even teleport? Superman can't teleport.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Good point but can Goku defeat this?

Spoiler: Tenga Toppa Gurren Lagann

It is the size of 10 Million Light Years in height so Goku doesn't appear as a dot to it.

Ok assuming let say he just fight Simon/ Kamina or just Gurren Lagan, Goku would probably lose.

The fact they operate on the do "make the impossible possible" so in that logic they can define Goku logic (e.g. if Goku use the spirit bomb or Kamehameha, they make their drill and it would pierce the blast and into Goku himself).

 

[evilneko]

Haruhi Suzumiya.

If she wanted it to, the whole universe would change to one where Goku either didn't exist, or wasn't superpowered, or didn't want to fight.

She wouldn't even realise she was doing it.

It took 30 posts for someone to mention God....but they also forgot to mention Yuki.

On the one hand, son, I am disappoint. On the other, damn, ninja'd. >.>

But hey, let me throw in Lain, since she did it years before Yuki did. Also Madoka, since she did naked.

 

[Malty Milk Whistle]

what about if he fought a mentally handicapped llama, but get this, THE LLAMA WAS GOD!
In all seriousness, you cannot compare 2 characters who do not exist in the same universe...there is no comparative baseline.

 

[him over there]

Simon with Gurren Lagaan is able to THROW galaxies with its hands.

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann never manipulated any galaxies, that was The anti Spiral Grand Zamboa. Though Gurren Lagann probably would indeed be capable of it.

 

[Wintermoot]

RISE GUNDAM!
*snap*

even if Domon where forbidden from using the God/Shining Gundam he is still a experienced martial artist.

Shinji Ikari would isolate the shit out of him
Beat that, Naruto

Shinji you said?

I think we have a winner
I,m pretty sure Gar Shinji can handle both Domon in the God Gundam,Naruto and Goku SS4 single handedly.
/thread

 

[mega48man]

TL;DR

anime is like the daughter to our rich detached father figure. as we journey the internet, becoming internet gods, our daughter, anime, wants our attention.

when it was little, it was dragon ball z, and some other good animes. but as it grew older, so did we, and we grew a little distant.

we gave it our attention, and then stopped, maybe we look at it now and then. anime then reacts outrageously by creating hentai and other weird shit in order to win some attention. we then pay a little more attention, then stop again. and so, the vicious cycle repeats.

 

[Palademon]

Well, Goku obviously beats Naruto. I find Naruto as a show more enjoyable, but Goku can destroy planets.

But the answers others put are good, but I feel kind of sad that they are all from anime I know. I was expecting some unknown total boss to wreck shit.

 

[Guffe]

DON'T CROSS DIFERENT ANIMES FOR MY GIANT HAIRY BALLSACK!!!!

Seriously, to compare two vastly different shows never meant to cross each other you first must make both animes/series able to adapt to each others universes and then combine them = NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!!