WanderFreak said:
Good work anonymous. You just turned every possible ally against you in your cause.
Because you attacked the God damn FBI.
They've been going about this whole thing wrong. If you want to get word out to the populace about Wikileaks, you don't irritate the masses and provoke the authorities. All you do is turn everyone against you.
When they took down Interac debit, all that meant to me was I couldn't bloody well buy anything for a day. It didn't tell me anything about Wikileaks. All it did was piss me off that some idiot felt THAT was the best way to inform me about the whole thing. I already new about Wikileaks, but if they'd left well enough alone, I would have known about Wikileaks AND had my lunch.
Any potential good they may have done in this whole mess is long gone. My parents (who have no idea of anonymous whatsoever) outright hate them. Know why? Because they own a small business, and they lost huge sales that day because they had no interac. Imagine hundreds of thousands of people with the same opinion, who now are watching news reports of how they attacked the FBI.
They're not crusaders, fighting for a free internet. They're fucking idiots causing problems for normal people who don't give a shit. And when some politician comes along and says "We need to regulate the internet to prevent THIS" what do you think normal people are going to say?
My point exactly.
The vast majority of people are not closet revolutionaries. While we all have some grievance in the way things might be run in our country at the moment or with who is doing the running, most people are averse to big showy disruptive actions that harm innocent people. It's all well and good to praise wikileaks for exposing a VERSION of the "truth" (after all, truth is often from a specific PERSPECTIVE. And to be quite honest, I trust NO ONE fully... not the government, not anonymous, not wikileaks. Everyone has ulterior motives. Everyone has a "reason" for their actions and play fast and loose with "information", often skewing things to support their cause or shed light on things the way THEY want them to be seen.).
But anonymous also needs to realize that this isn't V from Vendetta. And that in REAL LIFE, there are often MANY consequences that we didn't expect. Wikileaks and Assange in their arrogance perhaps also didn't consider this, or maybe they did and they figured it was still worth it. The information in these documents does not just damage the people in the government who might have been involved, they LITERALLY put diplomatic relationships in jeopardy, expose alternative avenues to AVOID war that might not have seemed very pleasant, but were MUCH preferable to loss of life, or shatter an image that needed to be maintained. It compromised things in motion that may very well change the course of our history, and not for the better. I wonder if Wikileaks and Assange can sleep comfortably at night knowing that Sure, they exposed some nasty little secrets, but by doing so, they may have indirectly ended the lives of people that were not INVOLVED. For example, some of the deals going on in Afghanistan, or with China and North Korea... a lot of that wasn't necessarily pretty, but at the same token a WAR with North Korea, Iran, or prolonged conflict in Afghanistan isn't exactly doing anyone any favors either. Sad fact is, this ideal world that these people live in where we apparently should have no secrets and everything can be done out in the open and with kind words is a pipe dream. There will be some people you CAN NOT reason with the way you would reason with a next door neighbor. Some evil people MUST be either bribed, threatened into cowardice, or killed. It's just the fact of life. Of course, its easy for people living in their mother's basements or hiding amongst the citizens in the freest, strongest, and arguably safest country's in the world to play act at giving "justice" to the masses, but I have a feeling that if Assange had a permanent address that was easily discoverable, he might rethink some of these "leaked documents." I wonder also if he's considered the fact that he may have placed his mother and loved ones in danger as well, because no matter what his personal inspirations were, he is going to piss SOMEONE off. Sooner or later, someone is going to lose a loved one, a comrade, a co-worker, a sibling, or something and they are going to blame wikileaks, assange, anonymous, and anyone else whose name was mentioned. And when that day comes, when that person feels that they have the justification to take action because THEY were wronged, whose side will be the "right" side? What happens if that person decides that Assange and his allies need to "pay" for what they did because their actions caused someone innocent or just doing their job to be harmed or killed? Will they still defend themselves with "it was the right thing to do!"? Will they demand protection? Will they provide restitution? How can they ever make things right?
Life is circles within circles within circles, and very little is every absolutely clear.
One thing, though, usually is: People ultimately get what they deserve.
photog212 said:
HyenaThePirate said:
And now, you want to go up against the FBI?! The FREAKING FBI, who brought down the KKK, who busted the mob, who has unlimited resources, mind, and manpower at their disposal, and is backed by legislators who already think the internet is "dangerous" and technology should be regulated because of potential danger in the hands of "children?"
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but when did any of this happen?
This is all common historical knowledge. Mind you, I did not say they eradicated these organizations, just that at one point these organizations wielded IMMENSE power.. then the FBI brought that to an end. The KKK was a MAJOR organization at one point, with MILLIONS of "members," a political party, and was actually something considered as ordinary as the Reader's Digest Club. Extremist groups WITHIN the organization committed horrible atrocities on blacks, and as a result, the ENTIRE organization was targeted by Hoover and the FBI. THey were infiltrated by FBI undercover agents, the FBI began to investigate their activities, look into their finances and taxes, exposed names of people connected within the government, and ultimately brought the organization to its knees. What we see today are smaller pockets that survived, but ultimately even these are monitored by the FBI and are little more than nasty little "clubs" for people who want to hang out with others that share their hatred.
The Mob, as we know, was also infiltrated and broken up in the majority by the FBI who took down most of the biggest and powerful families. Again, you can't kill the WHOLE beast, but you can cripple it to a point that keeps it manageable. But the Mafia today is NOTHING like what it used to be, mainly because such a huge organized crime enterprise would be targeted and dismantled. As for the rest, I'm sure you have been aware of all the drama going on in the US with legislators wanting to censor everything from video games, to social networks, to internet access. Especially where minors are concerned. They view the internet as a potential threat, a place where tomorrow's terrorists and criminals are creating the next crime battlefield. Look at all the legislation on "Cyber-bullying" that has been a hot-button issue lately.
They've been chomping at the bit to pass Net Neutrality, and now that they can start pointing to these examples and actions as a REASON why we NEED tougher, stricter laws restricting the internet, technology, and the whole gamut, they'll soon be able to get it done, with little resistance. Hell, I've been around since things really got hot on the internet before even AOL introduced the masses to it, and I can't really say I'd be sorry to see the hammer comedown on some elements, such as Anonymous. Not because I don't necessarily like them, but because I think that in their present form they lack cohesion and discipline and are more troublesome than helpful. They have a blatant disregard for ANYONE, and when their actions start to impact decent, hardworking folks who aren't involved or have an opinion either way, that's where I disagree with them.
I don't think Anonymous is ready for the "first cyber war." But I'm willing to bet the GOVERNMENT is. People seem to think the men and women in the government are bumbling idiots or something. I can assure you they are not. They know exactly what they are doing. And they learn and adapt from the best. When the hammer comes down, it's not going to be through some playful DDOS mickey mouse bullshizzle... It's going to come down with all the weight and fury of Molnir wielded by a VERY angry and vengeful God.
