Another Incident in Portland

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Seanchaidh

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I can pull an UNO as well and just say we should PURGE all COMMUNISTS from government, both national and state, and then PURGE them from labor unions.
They already did that shit and, confusing the audience, it led to the decades-long decline of labor unions and the neoliberal turn of the Democratic Party.
 

Satinavian

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Sure, I have anecdotal sources too, of two friends who came from "peasant" class and were admitted to specialist schools in the USSR because they showed talent.

I'm sure there was corruption and places were taken by the well-connected undeserving, but at least the access was still there. Doesn't matter if you have the talent, bar a tiny proportion of scholarships, you're not going to private schools and the likes of Harvard unless your parents are flush.
When did they serve in the army
Agema is right. Now policies changed a bit over time and there were differences between countries in the Eastern block. But in general everyone got into the exactly same school education system and who was admitted to universities was based on mostly on rigorous testing and thus ability.

While spouting dissident opinions or behaving otherwise illoyal could cost you that option, being particularly loyal to marxist ideals would not help you at all if your grades were not good enough.

Only at certain times some of the countries experimented with background in university admission. There was once the opinion that to achieve a truly classless society, it should be avoided to allow an intellectual class. And for a time university admissions where only giving to people whose parents did not graduate from a university.

As for "serving in the army", that is a stupid question for countries where every man was conscripted. You could ask for spending willingly more than the bare minimum in the army. But then, no, that was never a university requirement.
 
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Seanchaidh

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There was once the opinion that to achieve a truly classless society, it should be avoided to allow an intellectual class.
A worthwhile flattening, though the strategy of limiting education to achieve it is not so good. In some ways, ParEcon is a more thoughtful approach to achieving precisely that-- not by limiting education or intellectual engagement but by spreading it around to everyone in all facets of the workplace.
 

lil devils x

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A worthwhile flattening, though the strategy of limiting education to achieve it is not so good. In some ways, ParEcon is a more thoughtful approach to achieving precisely that-- not by limiting education or intellectual engagement but by spreading it around to everyone in all facets of the workplace.
We have really reached a point where universal higher education should be happening already. We just have to get the wealthy to stop preventing it. With the technology we have there is no real reason we should be having to limit access to anyone. We need to make the necessary shifts to be able to accomplish that. A few years back, I am not sure if you remember me posting about it , but Universities such as Harvard and MIT and other prestigious school have been working on and expanding "Open learning". The problem though is currently due to restrictions, you still can't get a good degree that way and we need to change that. We could actually shift most education over to virtual learning and then reserve in person learning for labs and hands on training only. This would free up a lot of space at existing universities allowing for those universities to be able to enroll many more students and give them access to a quality education. This is a bit more of a challenge in medical fields and others that require a lot of in person training, but in many other fields, this will free up a ridiculous amount of space on campuses.

our biggest obstacle though of course is the wealthy actually trying to prevent this from happening by blocking the funding to do so because they are the ones who benefit most from separating of the classes, but if we can somehow manage to overcome that, we can solve much of the education disparities that drive many of the problems we are dealing with in the US. It does not solve the issues caused by the automation revolution, but it does give the people a better chance of surviving it with more opportunities to reskill. Though if we have UBI as Pelosi, Yang and others have suggested implemented at some point here, people will have more time to focus on educating themselves to better adapt to changes as well as be able to better assist in finding the solutions we need to solve the problems we are presented with.
 

Satinavian

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A worthwhile flattening, though the strategy of limiting education to achieve it is not so good.
Not Limiting education (at least for Warshaw pact countries). There were not less university places provided, just the opposite. This was only about distributing educarion differently by sending children of farmers and workers to university instead of children of engineers or doctors.

And they gave up on that anyway.
 

Seanchaidh

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Not Limiting education (at least for Warshaw pact countries). There were not less university places provided, just the opposite. This was only about distributing educarion differently by sending children of farmers and workers to university instead of children of engineers or doctors.

And they gave up on that anyway.
That's what I mean. Limiting who can do it is not a great strategy.
 

Chimpzy

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Sounds to me like you two really need to fuck.
Ever since both Zontar and Saelune both got banned, this place has been bereft of two ideologically opposed people who secretly want to hatefuck.
Applicants to take their place in Escapist canon are welcome.
 

dreng3

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We have really reached a point where universal higher education should be happening already. We just have to get the wealthy to stop preventing it. With the technology we have there is no real reason we should be having to limit access to anyone. We need to make the necessary shifts to be able to accomplish that. A few years back, I am not sure if you remember me posting about it , but Universities such as Harvard and MIT and other prestigious school have been working on and expanding "Open learning". The problem though is currently due to restrictions, you still can't get a good degree that way and we need to change that. We could actually shift most education over to virtual learning and then reserve in person learning for labs and hands on training only. This would free up a lot of space at existing universities allowing for those universities to be able to enroll many more students and give them access to a quality education. This is a bit more of a challenge in medical fields and others that require a lot of in person training, but in many other fields, this will free up a ridiculous amount of space on campuses.

our biggest obstacle though of course is the wealthy actually trying to prevent this from happening by blocking the funding to do so because they are the ones who benefit most from separating of the classes, but if we can somehow manage to overcome that, we can solve much of the education disparities that drive many of the problems we are dealing with in the US. It does not solve the issues caused by the automation revolution, but it does give the people a better chance of surviving it with more opportunities to reskill. Though if we have UBI as Pelosi, Yang and others have suggested implemented at some point here, people will have more time to focus on educating themselves to better adapt to changes as well as be able to better assist in finding the solutions we need to solve the problems we are presented with.
If we only limit the open learning concept to higher education, because younger kids benefit from a physical presence, there is only one problem I can really see. That certain jobs will be overrun. There would need to be a massive shift in how we handle jobs and employment to deal with the increased number of people with higher education, especially if they all chose to pursue a limited range of fields.
I do however agree that education should be more readily available. I've recently finished another degree and while I'm currently taking a break from educating myself I'd love to be able to learn more without having to invest as much as I had to for this degree. If I didn't have to pay for my degree I could easily live my life working 20 hours a week and pursuing an education parallele to that, but as it stands I have to work a lot more, which in return limits the time I have for education.
 

Revnak

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Ever since both Zontar and Saelune both got banned, this place has been bereft of two ideologically opposed people who secretly want to hatefuck.
Applicants to take their place in Escapist canon are welcome.
No.
 

Specter Von Baren

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If we only limit the open learning concept to higher education, because younger kids benefit from a physical presence, there is only one problem I can really see. That certain jobs will be overrun. There would need to be a massive shift in how we handle jobs and employment to deal with the increased number of people with higher education, especially if they all chose to pursue a limited range of fields.
Who says we haven't already reached this point?
 

Iron

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Agema is right. Now policies changed a bit over time and there were differences between countries in the Eastern block. But in general everyone got into the exactly same school education system and who was admitted to universities was based on mostly on rigorous testing and thus ability.

While spouting dissident opinions or behaving otherwise illoyal could cost you that option, being particularly loyal to marxist ideals would not help you at all if your grades were not good enough.

Only at certain times some of the countries experimented with background in university admission. There was once the opinion that to achieve a truly classless society, it should be avoided to allow an intellectual class. And for a time university admissions where only giving to people whose parents did not graduate from a university.

As for "serving in the army", that is a stupid question for countries where every man was conscripted. You could ask for spending willingly more than the bare minimum in the army. But then, no, that was never a university requirement.
What did my question have to do with your arguments, I don't know.
The Universities had acceptance committees, which were corruptible as anywhere.
 

Satinavian

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Corruption did exist. But money was utterly irrelevant for education and yes, even a peasant boy from some remote village without any connections could get to a good university.
 
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Iron

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Corruption did exist. But money was utterly irrelevant for education and yes, even a peasont boy fro some remote village without any connections could get to a good university.
You had to pay tutors after school to prepare your kids for the entrance exams.
You could have been denied entry based on race quotas as well.
 

dreng3

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Who says we haven't already reached this point?
We have reached the point of certain fields being saturated with degree holders, but we haven't yet reached the point where we consider education for the sake of education as valuable.
If education becomes available and free to all we need to consider what kind of encouragements we want to give people in order to make them study.
 

Satinavian

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You had to pay tutors after school to prepare your kids for the entrance exams.
You could have been denied entry based on race quotas as well.
I have grown up in one of those countries and literally never even heard about paid tutors for entrance exams or race quotas.
 
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Iron

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I have grown up in one of those countries and literally never even heard about paid tutors for entrance exams or race quotas.
Could it be that you didn't hear about it because you weren't from those affected races.
 

Silvanus

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Could it be that you didn't hear about it because you weren't from those affected races.
Commentary said:
Or Satinavian could be under the age of ~65, and the situation changed later.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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We have reached the point of certain fields being saturated with degree holders, but we haven't yet reached the point where we consider education for the sake of education as valuable.
If education becomes available and free to all we need to consider what kind of encouragements we want to give people in order to make them study.
"Certain fields" yet so many college graduates aren't getting the jobs needed to pay off their debts. Sounds like a problem to me.

Also, education doesn't have inherent value in and of itself. Learning all about the clover mite does not give someone any inherent benefit unless they use that information for something. Education is important in that we can teach kids life skills and encourage them to pursue learning and thinking for themselves so as to lead to betterment for themselves and hopefully others, but just the act of learning about something does not inherently give value to someone.
 
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