Anti-Child Society

[tthor]

you expect for future generations to move away from a social stigma of having kids, by not having kids, thus the anti children people having no effect on the future generation...

 

[Jodah]

The reason is because people are too lazy and self centered (there are exceptions so don't consider that an insult). The good ones are the ones that realize this and choose not to have kids.

The rest have kids but don't put the effort into raising them. This leads to the issues that cause the brat bans. Those wouldn't even be an idea if more parents taught their children how to behave in public.

Of course that becomes problematic when any punishment is considered abuse. I have actually met people who think giving children a time out is abuse. Positive reinforcement only goes so far, sometimes children need to be taught there are things you just don't do...like throwing a tantrum in the middle of a nice restaurant.

 

[tthor]

I'll be honest. People with your outlook on kids annoy the hell out of me. To me, people who whine and complain about kids and call for bans seem to be just as bad as the whiny kids they seem to hate. Yeah, I plan to have kids. To me, the child is never the issue, it's the parent. And because some kids are bad means you ban all of them? Whoo, generalizations! Whenever I have kids to raise, I actually plan on giving a damn so that they can hopefully change the minds of guys like you.

this. i don't plan on having kids personally, but they people who outright hate kids and want bans and such on them just annoy me. I mean, seriously, kids are kinda important to the continuation of the species, not to mention that all of us were kids at some point or another, and that these kids are, amazingly, people too! Le Shock! Yes they can be annoying as hell at times, but so can grown adults, so deal with it.

 

[Brandon237]

Brat bans? Really?

To be honest, that sounds absolutely pathetic.

Imagine scenario:
You have just paid for yourself and your date to go to an expensive restaurant (not some family restaurant), you have paid plenty for your food and drinks and then a family comes in. They have a small child / baby. No problem. But within 5 minutes, it starts screaming and crying, the parents try to shut it up, it is two tables away, you can hear it clearly. The parents attempts are futile, as they normally are. They stay there for the duration of the rest of your date. You listen to screaming that entire time. Would you be happy with the management of this classy restaurant for allowing this?

Same idea goes for first class on trains and planes.

 

[BonsaiK]

My question is this: What do you think is the cause of this anti-child/anti-baby society?

WARNING: Actual answer to your question follows. Proceed with caution.

Higher standard of living. Developed countries always have lower birthrates than developing countries. Within developed countries, the people who breed the most are always those who are less well-off. The reason is obvious - in developing countries and ghettos, big family = survival. More people in the family unit means more people to work, bring in an income, greater support network, many hands make light work etc etc. Survival takes priority and a larger group can survive easier than a smaller group. In middle-class environments in developed nations where survival is a given, the priority switches to quality of life - people want to enjoy life more, explore career and leisure option etc, so they have children later in life, or not at all.

Nothing to do with breaking away from conformity, anything political or whatever. It's just people choosing the best possible ways to live their lives depending on circumstance.

A couple other things in this thread worth tackling:

1. The world is not, nor is it ever going to be, overpopulated. World population figures are looking to level out at 9 billion, a number the planet can easily support. Problems of starvation are a result of lack of certain people's access to food, not lack of food in general. Out of all the food that is made currently in the world, about a third is wasted.

2. War, nukes, etc does absolutely nothing to stop population growth and in fact increase it, because war lowers standard of living, and as previously discussed, communities with a low standard of living have a higher birthrate. For example, while the world currently is not going to have a population crisis, certain countries are, given current trends. One of the countries heading for an overpopulation problem soon is Afghanistan.

Yes I have sources, I can link them if you want.

 

[Maze1125]

I'm all for people not having children, it means their genetics will be removed from the gene-pool all the sooner.

 

[tthor]

My question is this: What do you think is the cause of this anti-child/anti-baby society?

WARNING: Actual answer to your question follows. Proceed with caution.

Higher standard of living. Developed countries always have lower birthrates than developing countries. Within developed countries, the people who breed the most are always those who are less well-off. The reason is obvious - in developing countries and ghettos, big family = survival. More people in the family unit means more people to work, bring in an income, greater support network, many hands make light work etc etc. Survival takes priority and a larger group can survive easier than a smaller group. In middle-class environments in developed nations where survival is a given, the priority switches to quality of life - people want to enjoy life more, explore career and leisure option etc, so they have children later in life, or not at all.

Nothing to do with breaking away from conformity, anything political or whatever. It's just people choosing the best possible ways to live their lives depending on circumstance.

A couple other things in this thread worth tackling:

1. The world is not, nor is it ever going to be, overpopulated. World population figures are looking to level out at 9 billion, a number the planet can easily support. Problems of starvation are a result of lack of certain people's access to food, not lack of food in general. Out of all the food that is made currently in the world, about a third is wasted.

2. War, nukes, etc does absolutely nothing to stop population growth and in fact increase it, because war lowers standard of living, and as previously discussed, communities with a low standard of living have a higher birthrate. For example, while the world currently is not going to have a population crisis, certain countries are, given current trends. One of the countries heading for an overpopulation problem soon is Afghanistan.

Yes I have sources, I can link them if you want.

You know, i like you. you always have good, intelligent posts, and you actually do your research~

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

well...im my opinion...we also need to think about over population..so...(at the moment anyway) is it a bad thing birth rates went down? (i feel like this is a stupid thing to say)

I thought overpopulation was a problem? I mean, I could do with less people around. Gods know most people around me are idiots.

Thats not a developed world problem. A lot if not basically ALL of the insane population increase comes from third world countries reproducing to make a larger work force so they dont have to live in crushing poverty.

 

[Adzma]

people who want to ban children from things should be shot in the head then*censored* *censored*
I mean why are they under the assumption that every child is a brat??

Strong words indeed. Does that mean you'll be willing to walk up to me in public and shoot me in the head?

Yeah didn't think so.

Bring on the brat ban I say!

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Of course it is not your responsibility to raise someone else's child (unless you want to), but as they say: Children are the future. They absorb information like a sponge and everything they see you do is reflected in the way they behave as adults. You don't know if this kid will be the next president or the guy who gives you your medicine when you're old and feeble. It's just something I hope you keep in mind when you interact with kids.

I always find it hilarious when people say that. If children are the future then how come we're still being run by ancient, undead white guys? Again, I don't mean to sound nasty, it's actually a funny thought to me.

Because SHOCKER! THEY WERE CHILDREN ONCE :O And those children had parents. And people like you who told them they were a leech onto others and should be banned and discouraged. And then they did turn out to be the future. Why does someone being old show that children are not the future? Of course they are. When you are dead people who were children now, (Even if they do age to become undead white guys) Will call the shots. And have to live where we place em. And to think that it isnt our issue because we are dead is selfish, short sighted and honestly an attitude against nature itself in leu of the preservation of our species and on a less extreme note, the certainty that we continue to thrive.

 

[juraigamer]

I'd say one of the main reasons is people just can't stay married anymore. They don't want to work together and solve issues, they just choose to ignore things and hope they go away.

 

[Tselis]

Well, the brat bans are easy to explain. There has been a trend over the past few decades of parents to not discipline thier kids at all. They think that only talking, not even raising their vioce, will do enough. So the kids don't respect/fear thier parents authority. Without that respect/fear they run wild, and no one wants to have to deal with the little monsters. I know that as a mother of three, one with special needs, I really fucking hate having to pull other people's kids up short. And yes, I did say fear. You fear the police's authority, right? Why? Because if you step out of line and get caught there are consiquences. There needs to be a healthy, that's right!, healthy fear of the consequences of your actions. Most kids don't have that, so they have the power in the relationship. When push comes to shove they know that thier parents aren't willing/able to lay down the law. People are tired of putting up with it, and are starting to push back. Good for them, maybe now parents will start parenting again. Probably not though.

 

[Iron Mal]

In the United States today, fewer and fewer births are occurring. The birth rate is lower than in the time of the great depression. There are several different explanations/theories for this: 1) Times are tough, cant afford kids 2) More frequent use of contraception 3) (perhaps the biggest of all) Adults do not want to have children.

It's probably a mixture of all those reasons and more, deciding whether or not to have a child is a huge decision in a person's life since it really does shift around your priorities, takes up a huge chunk of your time and requires commitment and dedication (I don't even have kids and I know this).

It's no major suprise that here in the western world (where we are becoming more intelligent and have a greater desire for independance and the ability to do as we please in our youth) are either choosing not to have kids or to have them later on in life.

There are many couples who choose to live childless by choice. There are adults who want to enforce "brat bans" on public places like restaurants, shopping centers, and on airplanes. There has actually been a ban of children and babies from a first class cabin on one airline and children are only allowed to ride in coach.

Here we go down into the moral ambiguity of the 'my comfort takes priority over your rights' debate. So in short there are people who wish to control the way we behave and enforce their own rules and regulations because something ticks them off or annoys them, never mind the fact that besides your personal distaste or discomfort there is no reason to ban people with children from public areas and settings (what if we reversed the situation and banned people without children from entering restraunts because parents felt it didn't help with creating a 'family atmosphere', it's essentially the same arguement but would we find it being supported as widely?).

My question is this: What do you think is the cause of this anti-child/anti-baby society?

Personally, I think this opinion is the natural result of people now having more freedom in terms of how they interact with others and engage in sexual relationships has also resulted in people also being more reluctant to have children (combine this with the greater level of women's rights it could be argued to a certain extent that this has possibly resulted in some people 'rejecting' the role women traditionally have in terms of childbirth).

In my opinion, I believe people are starting to finally break away from the social conformity that comes with having a child. People are expected to reproduce at some point in their lives and not doing so usually carries a great stigma to it. I think the faster we can get over this stigma, the faster we can build a better society where people can choose to live the way that they want.

Some people choose to simply not have kids, some people think at first that they don't want kids but later find themselves reconsidering and being happy with their reconsideration, some people get knocked up by accident and end up hating themselves and their progeny, some people know from the beginning that they want children and plan out how they'll go about it and there are many other situations that can result in someone having a child (or not).

Granted, the notion of having children shouldn't be forced upon us but by the same token it is vital that we don't go to the opposite extreme and stigmatise children and the people who derive satisfaction from birthing and raising them, remember, the choice behind our actions and decisions is what is undeniably important.

In case it's hard to tell, I absolutely loath children. I'm all for the "brat bans" and would take it so much further if I could. I do not plan on ever having kids and decided that when I was very young. I'm anti-baby and anti-children, though not simply because they scream and carry on in public, there's a deeper reason. I'm also anti-parents who couldn't care less about their screaming child. For all those who wish to argue "It's different when you have a kid", there's a reason I don't have a damn kid.

I personally have no problem with children (and if myself and my girlfriend in the future found ourselves in a stable and settled situation then I'm sure we'd both be overjoyed to have a kid of our own) so I personally don't have any ill will or ire towards kids and their parents (let's not forget that we were kids ourselves at one point). Your support of the notion of Child Bans would be applicable to the morally grey area I mentioned above (namely, placing your own comfort and preferences above the rights and fair treatment others).

I understand that you probably have your own reasons for loathing children but this doesn't mean that others aren't justified in calling you out for what is essentially ageism and elistist views.

 

[Tselis]

I heard a child somewhere outside yesterday, probably in a store, who kept yelling MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA, MAMA.

Sometimes i wonder what goes on in the parents head when they do not pay any attention to their child whatsoever.
You have to use a child's instincts in order to get them to realize what may or may not be acceptable behavior. Telling them ''no'' when they ask for a toy and nothing else is not going to lead to peace.

We call that 'chanting', and my kids know much better than to engage in it. Also, when I or my husband say no, my kids know it's a better answer than 'No, and maybe I should get rid of some of your toys when we get home.' That's my response to what we like to call 'pestering'. Niether of these is acceptable behavior from an adult, so why the fuck is it tolerated from kids. They aren't going to be kids forever. I'm not raising kids. I'm raising small people who will be competant adults. They can keep their shit together. Why? Because I expect better of them, and I let them know it. You can call me strict, mean, abusive, or whatever gets you through the day. But when it comes right down to it, my kids (with the exception of the special needs one) are socially well adjusted, academically successful and motivated. Times are not nice, and only getting worse. It's time to stop coddling them and start preparing them for what they are going to have to deal with as adults. Parents won't be around forever. You have to stand on your own at some point. The question is, are you willing to put in the work to get them to that point, or did you just have a child as an accessory, something fashionable to do?

 

[Ghengis John]

In case it's hard to tell, I absolutely loath children. I'm all for the "brat bans" and would take it so much further if I could.

Admittedly you're biased and may be inclined to want to believe things that are somewhat unreasonable. So if you could explain one troubling sentence from your opening remarks? "would take it so much further"? I'm almost afraid to ask but what do you mean? This has some incredibly disturbing connotations to it. You sound like you're in favor of ostracizing people who reproduce or victimizing children for no other crime than not starting out as adults? You do realize that there isn't a lot you can say to legitimize one form of hostility over another correct?

I am all in favor of less people on the planet. I see a bright future where there are less assholes on the roads. I see less lines at the bank and the movies. I see myself not having to step around virus breeders left and right when I am walking down the street. Love to tell you I am so pro swine flu its crazy stupid. Its about time people realized that the world needs less people, not more idiots and and assholes.

Can we start with misanthropes like you? As much as I'd love to support this, having less people does not mean there would be a lower percentage of idiots and assholes on the planet. If the population were reduced to you and only you for instance, that sub-division of the population would hover at around 100%. How else would you classify a man who hates people simply for existing alongside himself? I'm sure you're an absolute ray of sunshine and you're doing so much to make this world a better place for your fellow man to live in, but just supposing you're not a charity organizing cancer researcher or prodigal pianist what makes you better than those people that you don't know, who are waiting in line for the movies behind you? Narcissism?

 

[Dark Knifer]

Probably Nature re-affirming herself on our COMPLETELY RATIONAL brains.

We're running out of resources, and market forces are pushing us towards using them all.

Therefore biological forces are finding ways for us to reduce the population.

You know, you seem to have a habit of making short, logical and interesting posts that get almost completely ignored in threads... Also, good point.

I don't have anything to really add to the above apart from that people seem more focused on themselves now as having kids isn't the "you must do this" as it was in the past. Not a bad thing, probably useful with the problems overpopulation are bringing. It's just their choice really.

 

[Caverat]

My question is this: What do you think is the cause of this anti-child/anti-baby society?

WARNING: Actual answer to your question follows. Proceed with caution.

Higher standard of living. Developed countries always have lower birthrates than developing countries. Within developed countries, the people who breed the most are always those who are less well-off. The reason is obvious - in developing countries and ghettos, big family = survival. More people in the family unit means more people to work, bring in an income, greater support network, many hands make light work etc etc. Survival takes priority and a larger group can survive easier than a smaller group. In middle-class environments in developed nations where survival is a given, the priority switches to quality of life - people want to enjoy life more, explore career and leisure option etc, so they have children later in life, or not at all.

Nothing to do with breaking away from conformity, anything political or whatever. It's just people choosing the best possible ways to live their lives depending on circumstance.

A couple other things in this thread worth tackling:

1. The world is not, nor is it ever going to be, overpopulated. World population figures are looking to level out at 9 billion, a number the planet can easily support. Problems of starvation are a result of lack of certain people's access to food, not lack of food in general. Out of all the food that is made currently in the world, about a third is wasted.

2. War, nukes, etc does absolutely nothing to stop population growth and in fact increase it, because war lowers standard of living, and as previously discussed, communities with a low standard of living have a higher birthrate. For example, while the world currently is not going to have a population crisis, certain countries are, given current trends. One of the countries heading for an overpopulation problem soon is Afghanistan.

Yes I have sources, I can link them if you want.

What they said.

Also, might be a case of some folk deciding that they are more than an apparatus to transport sexual organs between mates. You know, use their consciousness as something other than an extension of their instincts.

Just saying, a person's entire desire to have children is just their biological imperative to reproduce flaring up, kinda like the average person's obsession surrounding relationships.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

You're 'anti child'? That seems like a very odd stance to take about things...I mean, I can understand if you don't like or want kids but you don't need to take an anti stance against the little guys. Besides which you were a kid and you have parents to thank for your life on this planet, so...

As for me, here in the UK, I totally want children. I think helping my kids have a good upbringing is a nice way to revisit my childhood but with purpose.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

Maybe people are just adopting more? I doubt it, but playing a bit of devil's advocate here. You just said that birth rates are low, not family rates.

2 things
1. awesome picture
2. the kids still need to be born to be adopted. yeah, couples probably are adopting due to medical problems but that would still even out the birth rate.

i think its just because
1. kids are loud and annoying, therefore we dont want them on our planes or inn our restraunts.
and
2. we live longer, so we dont need to pop out a baby before we hit 35 and die of cholera.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

It's a good think. Population rates are through the roof. Earth can't handle 7 billion people.
Then again, societies where the average age is over 50 is pretty bad too...