Any ideas for obesity?

[Beltaine]

Having a government of any sort dictate what or how much food an individual may consume is an obscene violation of civil liberties. I seriously hope all you people wanting the government to fix all these "problems" aren't of voting age.

Throwing the "cost of healthcare" into the mix is invalid. A medical procedure for an obese person is the same as for a non-obese person.

Health INSURANCE already weeds out individuals who are obese by either charging them higher premiums or denying them coverage altogether.

The only people that need health care are sick people. Health care for healthy people costs nothing.

I guess while we're at it, we should get rid of old people.

Yep, take all the smokers, alcoholics, fat people, old people, poor people, handicapped people, and terminally ill people whether they are man, woman, child, or adolescent and send them into orbit.

Sounds like a GREAT plan.

 

[ShotgunShaman]

I know I should of read through the many pages of this thread but my ADHD kicked in about page 4 so I'm not. Besides it seems that the majority of posts aren't actually discussing anything but just throwing out the same old tired BS about obese people that they have really never actually had to try or claming that they will be a burden on health care with nary a scred of proof to be seen for the effectiveness of their suggestions or for the supposed burden on healthcare.

Look, there is a difference between "Fat" and "Obese". Fat is having an unhealthy ratio of fat to muscle mass. Obese is an arbitrary label from the BMI index. The BMI index is about as accurate at predicting who is unhealthy as I am to go outside and say there will be a natural disaster today. Docters today don't want to actually do any work in predicting who is actually carrying an unhealthy amount of fat so they use the BMI index so they don't have to think. All these studies about "obese" and different diseases ae almost as bad since all they use is the BMI index and a large enough cross section. They don't go into fat ratios or food habits or exercise routines or anything else. So in government studies of course it seems like we have a extremely large amount of "obese" people regardless of the fact of if they really are fat or just labeled that even when they are not.

I am 22 years old, am classed as "dangerously obese" at 254lbs and at 5'4". I do not eat alot of meats, eat mainly bread and pasta with vegetables and do heavy exercise 5 to 6 times a week for 4 to 8 hours at a time. I do have though very dense bones, an actually large bone structure (my wrist that has no fat on it is seven and a half inches around and I will email pics to anyone who needs proof), on a birth control that tends to have weight issues and a genetic tendency twards carrying extra fat. This has not stopped though every doctor I have ever been to in my entire life from just only looking at my height and weight and labeling me fat and saying I need to lose a hundred pounds. The problem with that is if I did that I would be dangerously unhealthy in my skinnyness.

The issue of fat needs to be handled much better then is currently is. Yes it could be helped by healthy food being cheaper but it isn't and wont be since the rules of supply and demand make it that the more people want it the more expensive it will get. Also healthy food needs to be more clearly defined. First eggs were bad then they were good, same for cheese, butter, grains, fat and everything else including water i.e. bottled water verses tap.

Instead of blaming the fat people or blaming their lifestyle or blaming the food, we should instead be blaming the lazy doctors who don't actually want to properly diagnose people as fat or not and instead just use a generic chart and blame the media for encouraging the ideal that only one type of body and anyone who doesn't have that is unhealthy and a burden to soceity.

A parting though on clothes: The fashion industry has been shrinking clothing sizes in the states for years. If you take a medium from 15 years ago and compare it to a medium of today, the medium from today is dramtically smaller. This may be a cost issue, I don't know but I do know that in any country that doesn't use measurements to define their clothing sizes and instead uses a random size assignment is going to have people with body issues because between shrinking sizes and the labeling it makes them feel worse about themselves.

-EDIT-
Btw, has anyone ever thought to look up the benefits of having a bit of extra fat? Like if you carry a bit more fat you are less likely to get sick in the hospital while being treated for something? Or girls not starving yourself through puberty lets you have bigger hips which heads off some problems with having children?

Just curious, at your 254 pounds, is it a lot of fat, or are you just shortish and super buff? Again since I know very little about you, you might already know, but maybe focusing on aerobic exercise (anything that raises heart rate for a long period of time) could help. Weight lifting is awesome, but it barely burns any carbs, while even just an easy bike ride will go miles with losing fat.
I agree that some fat is healthy, plenty of third world countries have proved that underweight epidemics are much worse that overweight ones.
It's splitting hairs, but I wouldn't say that lazy doctors are the only problem, but they are a part of it. And assuming the roots of morbidly overweight people (who unlike you live a true blue unhealthy lifestyle) is from ignorance, knowledgeable doctors could work wonders.

Welcome to the Escapist.

Having a government of any sort dictate what or how much food an individual may consume is an obscene violation of civil liberties. I seriously hope all you people wanting the government to fix all these "problems" aren't of voting age.

Throwing the "cost of healthcare" into the mix is invalid. A medical procedure for an obese person is the same as for a non-obese person.

Health INSURANCE already weeds out individuals who are obese by either charging them higher premiums or denying them coverage altogether.

The only people that need health care are sick people. Health care for healthy people costs nothing.

I guess while we're at it, we should get rid of old people.

Yep, take all the smokers, alcoholics, fat people, old people, poor people, handicapped people, and terminally ill people whether they are man, woman, child, or adolescent and send them into orbit.

Sounds like a GREAT plan.

Hey now, I said nothing about the government limiting food or killing the previously mentioned people. But weight is a problem (even if there are people destined for it by genetics, that's still plenty of poor lifestyles), and it should be helped by working with individual people, not weeding them out.

Then again, we could also use more stuff in orbit.




Finally for my own idea, maybe just no "sexy" clothes over a certain size. Fat people can wear any size clothes they want, but NO THONGS.

 

[Connor Lonske]

My solution about this is to stop freakin' worrying about it. ok! They are bigger than us. We get it. Who cares? Someone's weight is nobody's business but their own.

What he said.

If they cost society money, how is it NOT our business?

How does it cost people money, they pay for there own food.

As I said above:

If a fat person gets a heartattack because of his obesity he will cost money from society AND maybe even worse. Take focus from another patient that deserves the healthcare more.

You don't get health care because your fat, you get it because you have the money or your job provides it, and not all fat people have heart problems. Just because you can stereo type some one does not mean you should.

Not ALL fatpeople get heartattacks I know. But enough people gets some kind of disease because of their obesity.

Now you are american and I understand that it works diffrently where you live. But here in Sweden you don't pay for your heathcare, not the majority atleast. See where I'm coming from?...

I kinda see what you mean, but as disease is a disease. It does not matter how you get it. Saying fat people don't deserve health care is like say you can't give health care to a diseased person with AIDS because is he is prone to sickness dew to his condition.

 

[Shycte]

I kinda see what you mean, but as disease is a disease. It does not matter how you get it. Saying fat people don't deserve health care is like say you can't give health care to a diseased person with AIDS because is he is prone to sickness dew to his condition.

The diffrence is that the obease person is responsible for his or hers disease.

If I get cancer, it's not my fault. If I get a heartattack because I ate to much and worked out to little. I have no one to blame but myself.

 

[Mother Yeti]

I kinda see what you mean, but as disease is a disease. It does not matter how you get it. Saying fat people don't deserve health care is like say you can't give health care to a diseased person with AIDS because is he is prone to sickness dew to his condition.

The diffrence is that the obease person is responsible for his or hers disease.

If I get cancer, it's not my fault. If I get a heartattack because I ate to much and worked out to little. I have no one to blame but myself.

This is assuming that

1) All obese people can help being obese.
2) Any disease an obese person gets is a consequence of his/her obesity.
3) People don't deserve healthcare if their health problems are lifestyle-related.

I wish the world were as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[Connor Lonske]

I kinda see what you mean, but as disease is a disease. It does not matter how you get it. Saying fat people don't deserve health care is like say you can't give health care to a diseased person with AIDS because is he is prone to sickness dew to his condition.

The diffrence is that the obease person is responsible for his or hers disease.

If I get cancer, it's not my fault. If I get a heartattack because I ate to much and worked out to little. I have no one to blame but myself.

AIDS can be your fault too, you could have unprotected sex with a person who has AIDS, you could share drug nettles, and what if you have a screwed up metabolism so when ever you eat you get nothing good from it. What if you get fat from school food (American), do you deserve health care.

And you know what, what about people who smoke cigarettes and drink a lot of beer? Do they get a bone? What about a person who does not clean a scab and get an infection? I could go on and on.

 

[Shycte]

This is assuming that

1) All obese people can help being obese.
2) Any disease an obese person gets is a consequence of his/her obesity.
3) People don't deserve healthcare if their health problems are lifestyle-related.

I wish the world were as simple as you make it out to be.

AIDS can be your fault too, you could have unprotected sex with a person who has AIDS, you could share drug nettles, and what if you have a screwed up metabolism so when ever you eat you get nothing good from it. What if you get fat from school food (American), do you deserve health care.

And you know what, what about people who smoke cigarettes and drink a lot of beer? Do they get a bone? What about a person who does not clean a scab and get an infection? I could go on and on.

Let me put it this way, if their disease is casued byt their lifestyle, they have no right to free healthcare.

About fat people not being able to help them self because of bad genetic code. That is nothing but a lie. There is very few cases where a person actully can't lose weight. Sure there are some people who have eaiser to gain weigth. But they can still lose it by exercise just like anyone else.

AIDS is a terrible disease. If you didn't know that the person you had sex with had AIDS of course it is not your fault. If you were raped, the same. But if you had unprotected sex with someone you KNEW had AIDS it is kind of your own fault is it not? But then again, personal responsibility don't seem to exist in the US.

If you get it because you shared a needle with someone you deserve all the Shit you get. You injected the shit, you suffer the consequenses.

Cigaretts and alcohol? Everyone who uses it knows of the dangers. So why should I need to pay with my taxes for thier addiction?

What it all seems to come down to is what we think of personal responsibility. I say, if you did something even though you knew of the dangers. You have no right to complain or demand help.

 

[Mother Yeti]

Everything I'm talking about

I don't mean to offend, but it's really hard to have a serious discussion with someone who thinks they know everything, particularly when what they "know" is either patently false or just plain Ron Paul-level juvenile bullshit. Clearly you are very young and haven't yet experienced the moral ambiguities of the adult world.

 

[Connor Lonske]

This is assuming that

1) All obese people can help being obese.
2) Any disease an obese person gets is a consequence of his/her obesity.
3) People don't deserve healthcare if their health problems are lifestyle-related.

I wish the world were as simple as you make it out to be.

AIDS can be your fault too, you could have unprotected sex with a person who has AIDS, you could share drug nettles, and what if you have a screwed up metabolism so when ever you eat you get nothing good from it. What if you get fat from school food (American), do you deserve health care.

And you know what, what about people who smoke cigarettes and drink a lot of beer? Do they get a bone? What about a person who does not clean a scab and get an infection? I could go on and on.

Let me put it this way, if their disease is casued byt their lifestyle, they have no right to free healthcare.

About fat people not being able to help them self because of bad genetic code. That is nothing but a lie. There is very few cases where a person actully can't lose weight. Sure there are some people who have eaiser to gain weigth. But they can still lose it by exercise just like anyone else.

AIDS is a terrible disease. If you didn't know that the person you had sex with had AIDS of course it is not your fault. If you were raped, the same. But if you had unprotected sex with someone you KNEW had AIDS it is kind of your own fault is it not? But then again, personal responsibility don't seem to exist in the US.

If you get it because you shared a needle with someone you deserve all the Shit you get. You injected the shit, you suffer the consequenses.

Cigaretts and alcohol? Everyone who uses it knows of the dangers. So why should I need to pay with my taxes for thier addiction?

What it all seems to come down to is what we think of personal responsibility. I say, if you did something even though you knew of the dangers. You have no right to complain or demand help.

I see, you don't care about drug addicts ether, do you. Let me ask you some thing, do you think someone is a bad person because they like to eat, or they want to blow off some steam with some beer. Just beacuse you don't like someone's because of how they look or what they like to do does not mean they are bad people. I think no one should die dew one bad thing about them. No one deserves to die dew to some one else. If I lived in Sweden they I would pay all thoughts high taxes just so I could help people, no matter what the cause.

You don't not help someone because they deserve it or not, you do it just cause you want to help and they need it. If you don't want to help fat or sick people, that's your decision, but don't tell me they don't need the help if they are sick.

 

[Shycte]

Everything I'm talking about

I don't mean to offend, but it's really hard to have a serious discussion with someone who thinks they know everything, particularly when what they "know" is either patently false or just plain Ron Paul-level juvenile bullshit. Clearly you are very young and haven't yet experienced the moral ambiguities of the adult world.

Oh, is that really the why you are going to defend your opinion? By saying 'You don't understand nothing' and ' Your just some stupid kid. How is not my discussion not serious? Have I called names? Have I done ANYTHING but saying what my personal opinion is? What I said was my veiw of things. Seeing that this is a purely ethic question there can be no hard facts. Just opinions.

I guess I overrated you. I took you for a serious person able to have a serious discussion.
Shame to say, I was wrong.

 

[Shycte]

I see, you don't care about drug addicts ether, do you. Let me ask you some thing, do you think someone is a bad person because they like to eat, or they want to blow off some steam with some beer. Just beacuse you don't like someone's because of how they look or what they like to do does not mean they are bad people. I think no one should die dew one bad thing about them. No one deserves to die dew to some one else. If I lived in Sweden they I would pay all thoughts high taxes just so I could help people, no matter what the cause.

You don't not help someone because they deserve it or not, you do it just cause you want to help and they need it. If you don't want to help fat or sick people, that's your decision, but don't tell me they don't need the help if they are sick.

I never said that doing any of those things makes you a bad person. Hey! I know many people who are both overweigth and smoke and they are very nice people.

However, there is a thing called action and consequens. Every action you do is followed by a consequens. And it is you duty to take 'suffer' the consequens of your action.

And there is a diffrence between 'blowing of some steam with a couple of beers' and being an alcoholic isn't it now?

EDIT: Jeeeez, double post. Sorry about that.

 

[Karuma]

I'm sorry I don't have the time to weed through 11 pages so I apologize if my point has been made:

I recall the last time someone decided a certain group of people were a problem. I think there was a war over it. He called it the Final Solution. His name escapes me, but I recall he had a nice little mustache kinda like Charlie Chaplin. You guys probably heard of him.

 

[barium56]

For those who are saying obesity directly affects their bottom line, consider this:

Obesity greatly increases the risk of certain health defects, yes. The key phrase is increases the risk. Notice how that phrase wasn't causes without fail? As an example, I'm morbidly obese - 310 pounds (I'm working out 5 days a week and though my diet has been reprehensible lately, I'm getting it under control). The kicker? My blood pressure, cholesterol, everything about my health aside from my weight ? not only immaculate but healthier than some people I know at healthy weights.

You want to know another thing that's a drain to socialized health care systems? Driving. You're greatly increasing the risk of a terrible accident by getting in your car and driving to work, to school, or to wherever you need to go each day. If you hit someone or get hit; imagine the costs that'll rack up. So let's bike to work every day instead. It'll help you keep fit, too, help you avoid becoming a disgusting fatty. But wait! Not only have you still greatly increased your risk of getting hit than if you hadn't left at all, but you're even more likely to be more severely injured than if you were in a car! Well, shit! Okay, okay; this is still salvageable. You can walk to work instead! Wait, you're still at risk of some kind of injury?

So, no matter what you do you're at risk to be a drain on our fellow taxpayers? Huh? There's a solution? Awesome! Okay, you'll just need to find someplace to live that minimizes the travel distance to where you work. So it costs more, that's an easy fix! You can work a bit harder, put in some more time at the job and pay for it! Just man up, y'know? Oh, you're at a fixed salary? I guess you can't really put in more hours then. Well, maybe you can find a job that's closer to where you currently live! Sure, it might pay a bit less or might not be in your preferable career track, but you can maintain the same lifestyle if you just have the willpower to put in the extra time or tolerate the boredom. I mean, you wouldn't want to be a burden on your fellow citizens, would you?

So, because all you people who are complaining about obese people being a drain on your tax dollars have already minimized your daily traveling, amongst many other things that I haven't spelt out in such painstaking, caustic detail, so as to do everything in your power to prevent your lifestyles from being risks to the healthcare system, all simply requiring the willpower to do what's right, we can focus on the god damn fatties!

I mean, you've all done that, right?

P/S: Those who aren't in a country with a socialized health care system and are still complaining; you have no idea what you're talking about. Have you ever heard the phrase "pre-existing condition?" That's the very real and very problematic consequence all afflicted people face in the world of health insurance whether it be by their own hand or not.

 

[Connor Lonske]

I see, you don't care about drug addicts ether, do you. Let me ask you some thing, do you think someone is a bad person because they like to eat, or they want to blow off some steam with some beer. Just beacuse you don't like someone's because of how they look or what they like to do does not mean they are bad people. I think no one should die dew one bad thing about them. No one deserves to die dew to some one else. If I lived in Sweden they I would pay all thoughts high taxes just so I could help people, no matter what the cause.

You don't not help someone because they deserve it or not, you do it just cause you want to help and they need it. If you don't want to help fat or sick people, that's your decision, but don't tell me they don't need the help if they are sick.

I never said that doing any of those things makes you a bad person. Hey! I know many people who are both overweigth and smoke and they are very nice people.

However, there is a thing called action and consequens. Every action you do is followed by a consequens. And it is you duty to take 'suffer' the consequens of your action.

And there is a diffrence between 'blowing of some steam with a couple of beers' and being an alcoholic isn't it now?

EDIT: Jeeeez, double post. Sorry about that.

First Paragraph: You are right about this.

Second: Have you ever seen the move Pulp Fiction, at the end of the movie, Samuel Jackson help the Coffee shop robbers. But before he did that, he described them as "the weak". This is how I feel about people who have a eating problem or are addicted to drugs, and I am trying Shycte real hard to be the shepherd. If you did not see that movie, then you will not get what I said, so I will explain what I meant.

Fat people are little will power, and I was one of there criticizers, just like you. But now I am trying real hard to help and forget my opinions so I can do that.

Three: I have to say, I under worded what i said.

 

[WyteNite]

As a man who is too tall for a single XL, I think you short and thin people are the problem. Maybe if we just bred you tiny folk out...

Listen, there are a lot of obese people out there whose obesity is unrelated to their eating habits. There are a lot of obese people out there who desperately want to be thin.

And THEN there are "obese" who aren't really obese, the standard is just set so that they are overweight and demonized for it.

Maybe we should cure left-handed people and folks with upturned noses. Maybe all those ugly people with attached earlobes should get them cut, eh? Any other eugenics we should launch, hmm? How can we make your master race prettier today?

 

[Shycte]

First Paragraph: You are right about this.

Second: Have you ever seen the move Pulp Fiction, at the end of the movie, Samuel Jackson help the Coffee shop robbers. But before he did that, he described them as "the weak". This is how I feel about people who have a eating problem or are addicted to drugs, and I am trying Shycte real hard to be the shepherd. If you did not see that movie, then you will not get what I said, so I will explain what I meant.

Fat people are little will power, and I was one of there criticizers, just like you. But now I am trying real hard to help and forget my opinions so I can do that.

Three: I have to say, I under worded what i said.

I want to say that I really respect your opinion and that I don't think that you and I are so far from eachother after all.

The diffrence is that I don't that that society should be forced to helped them by higher taxes. Now if we were to think smart here you would both conclude that it won't really effect the taxes so much. Not in a county with 307,183,000 (acording to WikiPedia) like the United States.

But here is Sweden most of your taxes go to your Municipality (don't know if that are the correct grammar) and if there is alot of addicts where you live, it will effect the taxes.

The point that I'm trying to grasp is that I also want to help these people.

I mean it really can't be fun to be a heavy addict right? I feel sorry for them. Same about fat people. I'm not saying that being obease makes you unable to do anything, including having fun. But it is better to be fit if possible. And most people became fat because they just did't exercise enough.

I just don't want everything to fall down on the taz payers. More personal responsibility is needed!

 

[Mother Yeti]

Everything I'm talking about

I don't mean to offend, but it's really hard to have a serious discussion with someone who thinks they know everything, particularly when what they "know" is either patently false or just plain Ron Paul-level juvenile bullshit. Clearly you are very young and haven't yet experienced the moral ambiguities of the adult world.

Oh, is that really the why you are going to defend your opinion? By saying 'You don't understand nothing' and ' Your just some stupid kid. How is not my discussion not serious? Have I called names? Have I done ANYTHING but saying what my personal opinion is? What I said was my veiw of things. Seeing that this is a purely ethic question there can be no hard facts. Just opinions.

I guess I overrated you. I took you for a serious person able to have a serious discussion.
Shame to say, I was wrong.

I had several paragraphs in response to your post, but then I said to myself, this guy sounds like he's a teenager, is anything but time really going to change his mind?

But here's a Cliff's Notes version of what I had in mind:

Fat people don't deserve health care!
Irrespective of the fact that obesity doesn't necessarily cause health problems, what about a person who is fat because of the anti-psychotic medications she takes to control her bipolar disorder? What if he is poor and lives in the inner city where it is difficult to find healthy foods that are within his budget? What if she simply has difficulty controlling her eating, but she is a beloved schoolteacher who has done immeasurable good for the children in her care? Do these people deserve healthcare?

AIDS people don't deserve healthcare if they knew the people they slept with had AIDS!
This is, frankly, such a ridiculous statement as to be pointless; a person who has sex with a person they know to be HIV-positive will use protection if they are at all informed; if they are not, I don't see why they should be punished for ignorance.

Smokers/drinkers/whatever don't deserve MY TAX DOLLARS
YOUR TAX DOLLARS are already going towards other peoples' healthcare via social programs. If you'd prefer to see these people die in the street, I don't know what to say to you. Move to North Korea, maybe?

 

[Idhenz]

Fat is not synonymous with unhealthy.
Thin is not synonymous with healthy.

True that but what you're probably experiencing (and that is probably wrong as well which is why I use the word probably) Is the prejudice people have against slightly fat people who have certain curves to them that thin people don't... In one way we do have to stop thinking that people who are slightly bigger than them are disgusting people but on the other hand you have to stop eating fuckinig cheetos and drinking pepsi while you sit above your fried chicken meal every day telling people not to judge you..

There are healthy foods out there that you can grow out of the fucking dirt that surround your house and if you make a diet of celery and water for two months you'll notice some significant changes... of course you're gonna be grumpy and pissed off but you WILL lose weight and eventually get used to it. I was fat at one point (relatively because my stature doesn't allow me to be fat without looking dreadfully disgustingly tired and manboobied) And I spent a long time not eating more than 0.8 times a day and got so thin people wouln't even imagine I've once been fat.

I came back to my parents house and got overfed once more and now I'm starting to return to my old state... The solution? I'm working out, eating healthy shit that grows out of my garden and turning those moobs into pecks and those flabs into abs...

The solution is easy, and really easy. You gotta tell people that are fat and when I say fat I mean those people who are nearly as wide as they are tall that it's NOT natural, that eating McDonalds once a week CAN be OK for some people but not for you. Stop making yourself home-made french fries cuz you think those are healthier than the stores, stop pouring ketchup on your hot dog and STOP EATING HOT DOGS. Fat people are fat because somewhere someone told them taht either it was OK or that what they're eating isn't the result of their weight.. Yes some people have genes that make them bigger but you gotta make the difference between FAT and BIG. Fat is fat, big is big. A big person will resultingly fatten easier than someone else but a big person who gets no activity should drop the fucking cheetos and get on a treadmill, simple as hell.

I don't mean to be offensive to those fat people but who you are is a result of your mentality, if you wanna be thin, you can... if you don't why are you complaining that people think that your love handles hitting the chicken nuggets off the shelves in the "FATTY FOODS" alley are disgusting? Yes we should be able to accept that your big shape makes you just as normal as us but we will not and should not accept that the fat kids eating at McDonalds have their parents' best interest in them.

Edit: after reading the last posts (Yeah I looked at the first page or so whatever) I noticed another point needed to get across: If you're fat and that doesn't really affect your lifestyle ergo; You still can get a love for yourself, you can still fit on the bus seats, you can still live a healthy life and not go to the hospital, you can still walk around and not feel encumbered by your weight. Yes, the system is flawed and some of you are suffering from it and you are the ones taking the defence of those people eating Mcdonalds every day thinking they ahve teh right to be fat.

And those of you saying that taxes should be raised or lowered or the government has to be shaped around you and those fat fucks, lemme tell you something: FUCK YOU. Seriously, it's not the government's job to tell you what is and isn't, the government tells you what to do according to it's own best interest. Raising or lowering taxes will not work and will not happen.

If you weigh 293 some odd pounds (I won't go back and quote the thread that gave a really good supporting point to fat people but you're right) You might be considered fat but I'd have to see what you look like to really judge. The difference between someone who's really big and someone who has severe physical deformities from being overly fat are HUGE. I know people who if they stopped eating McDonalds they would be Fucking thin and that's obvious from their being 22 years old and gigantic and having rotten teeth from all the terrible food and horrible hygene they maintain. Those people don't deserve to be defended even if you think that the fat is genetic.

One thing is for certain: Some people are too fat and they have health problems relating to it, those people don't deserve healthcare if the first thing they do coming out of the hospital from a heart attack is stop at McDonalds. They might not know any better but if you come out of Chimotherapy and have a smoke, you're just as god damn retarded.

I've fallen in love with a woman considered Obese and I'll tell you one thing; as much as I hate fat people I thought she was fucking beautiful. So the BMI scale is wrong, the healthcare system is a system which is inavertadly flawed and all of you are too stuck in your own judgement to discuss this properly

 

[Shycte]

I had several paragraphs in response to your post, but then I said to myself, this guy sounds like he's a teenager, is anything but time really going to change his mind?

But here's a Cliff's Notes version of what I had in mind:

Fat people don't deserve health care!
Irrespective of the fact that obesity doesn't necessarily cause health problems, what about a person who is fat because of the anti-psychotic medications she takes to control her bipolar disorder? What if he is poor and lives in the inner city where it is difficult to find healthy foods that are within his budget? What if she simply has difficulty controlling her eating, but she is a beloved schoolteacher who has done immeasurable good for the children in her care? Do these people deserve healthcare?

AIDS people don't deserve healthcare if they knew the people they slept with had AIDS!
This is, frankly, such a ridiculous statement as to be pointless; a person who has sex with a person they know to be HIV-positive will use protection if they are at all informed; if they are not, I don't see why they should be punished for ignorance.

Smokers/drinkers/whatever don't deserve MY TAX DOLLARS
YOUR TAX DOLLARS are already going towards other peoples' healthcare via social programs. If you'd prefer to see these people die in the street, I don't know what to say to you. Move to North Korea, maybe?

1) I never said that they didn't deserve healthcare, and if I did I take it back. What I said was that they don't deserve free healthcare. There is a important diffrence there you know. If they become fat because they are on some kind of medication then it is a whole other thing. I'm talking about people who is obease because the ate to much and exercised to little. If you are taking pills and because of thatm you become obease then of course you have right to free healthcare because it is not your fault. Those two words are very important. If it is your fault, then it is you who shall suffer the consequenses. Not society.

2) Well, when I talked about AIDS it was a reply to Connor Lonske. But I'm happy to share my views once again. As you said, any sane person will use protection when they have sex with a person who is HIV/AIDS positive. If they are told and still have sex with someone who has the disease unprotected, how can they have anyone else to blame but them self. If they weren't informed about him or her having AIDS then it is not their fault. So I don't really get why we are competing this point when we seem to agree?

3) With social programs I assume you meen things like ex-addicts going to schools telling about their experiece. Cuz' I'm all for that. I think that it is great that people work to prevent these things from happening rather then trying to fix them afterwards.

 

[Connor Lonske]

First Paragraph: You are right about this.

Second: Have you ever seen the move Pulp Fiction, at the end of the movie, Samuel Jackson help the Coffee shop robbers. But before he did that, he described them as "the weak". This is how I feel about people who have a eating problem or are addicted to drugs, and I am trying Shycte real hard to be the shepherd. If you did not see that movie, then you will not get what I said, so I will explain what I meant.

Fat people are little will power, and I was one of there criticizers, just like you. But now I am trying real hard to help and forget my opinions so I can do that.

Three: I have to say, I under worded what i said.

I want to say that I really respect your opinion and that I don't think that you and I are so far from eachother after all.

The diffrence is that I don't that that society should be forced to helped them by higher taxes. Now if we were to think smart here you would both conclude that it won't really effect the taxes so much. Not in a county with 307,183,000 (acording to WikiPedia) like the United States.

But here is Sweden most of your taxes go to your Municipality (don't know if that are the correct grammar) and if there is alot of addicts where you live, it will effect the taxes.

The point that I'm trying to grasp is that I also want to help these people.

I mean it really can't be fun to be a heavy addict right? I feel sorry for them. Same about fat people. I'm not saying that being obease makes you unable to do anything, including having fun. But it is better to be fit if possible. And most people became fat because they just did't exercise enough.

I just don't want everything to fall down on the taz payers. More personal responsibility is needed!

I have to say, You made a lot of good points so far, and i am happy to see you have a little sympathy for people who need help, but paying your taxes will help them. Like I said before, you should not help or not help because of the person needing help or what caused it, you do it because you want to help, and paying your taxes does just that. I know it may not seem fare to pay more because of just one group of people, but think of how much they need it. If you needed medical treatment and you were just barely obese, which is easy by the way if your not careful, and the government said they don't have the money to pay for you, how would you feel, and please don't say that could never happen to you, just try to grasp the subject.

Look, I can't change you, but at least think about what I have been saying.