Are any RTSs actually strategic?

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SenisterDenister

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Mar 19, 2010
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To counter the OP's question: Yes there are, there's the many games by Paradox as mentioned earlier, namely Victoria II, Europa Universalis III, and Hearts of Iron III. If you don't have any sense of strategy you will lose every time.

Also, Dorf Fort. That's a grand strategy game if there ever was one.
 

RowdyRodimus

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Apr 24, 2010
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SakSak said:
The problem here might be that the OP has never been properly challenged in the RTSs he's played. Perhaps too low a difficulty, or simple unwillingeness to try any strategy beyond spam, so that in the end spamming a few basic units is all that he sees.
Right now that's my strategy, although to be fair I've been trying RTS' for a whole week or so, but everytime I play I do a bit better and use a little less spamming. I'm such a geek I've been making rudimentary maps and keeping a game diary like a chess player does to try to improve. Sad, huh?
 

Sartan0

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Strategy:

1. The science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations.
2. the use or an instance of using this science or art.
3. skillful use of a stratagem: The salesperson's strategy was to seem always to agree with the customer.
4. a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.

Tactics:

1. The art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle.
2.( used with a plural verb ) the maneuvers themselves.
3.( used with a singular verb ) any mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success.
 

GloatingSwine

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Mostly not, actually. Strategy is too high a level concept to really take part in most RTS games. Mostly what they are is games of tactics, with the "strategy" being very pared down to one or two approaches limited by the tech tree and build orders available.
 

Mcupobob

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Judgement101 said:
Dana22 said:
Every game requires strategic thinking.
Most RTSs are just spam units.
Tell that to my frinend and I after a 2 hour struggle match in Coh where every move coasted us a win. The enemy was spaming units, but couldn't break our defense. We managed to pull in some light artillery and do a quick swep and clear of their defenses then dig in near some buildings tight enough to keep pushing them back. It was one carfuly planned stragey.

So yes RTS do requier stragies, sometimes its about rushing in and wreaking havoc on their ecomcomy or buiding defenses and digging in. Those who just rush and spam quickly get taken out by more experianced players.
 

Judgement101

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Mar 29, 2010
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Mcupobob said:
Judgement101 said:
Dana22 said:
Every game requires strategic thinking.
Most RTSs are just spam units.
Tell that to my frinend and I after a 2 hour struggle match in Coh where every move coasted us a win. The enemy was spaming units, but couldn't break our defense. We managed to pull in some light artillery and do a quick swep and clear of their defenses then dig in near some buildings tight enough to keep pushing them back. It was one carfuly planned stragey.

So yes RTS do requier stragies, sometimes its about rushing in and wreaking havoc on their ecomcomy or buiding defenses and digging in. Those who just rush and spam quickly get taken out by more experianced players.
I said MOST, not all. (If it seems like I'm being agressive its because YOUR scary thread mentally raped me.)
 

The Harkinator

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Jun 2, 2010
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The Strategy in the Total War games is how you move on the campaign map and how you position your armies and fleets. The tactics is how you fight the battles.

For example, if you have one army and you take on two armies (one arriving as reinforcements) then it is strategic to make sure all their reinforcements arrive from the edge of the map behind the army you need to take on. That way you can focus on destroying one army before the other arrives which is using tactics in the field.

This is strategy and tactics at work, make sure they only engage you on one front and fight multiple enemies one at a time.

So yes there is strategy in RTS games, you just have to use it properly and if you do you can get so much more out of the game.

On the other hand, I despise 'Rock, Paper, Scissors' game mechanics because if I see a tank I send air units then back it up with a tank because they will send their anti air units which are weak against tanks then I send my anti air units because they destroy anything my opponent sends to shoot down my air units. So I have to make all three to do well. I also dont especially like base building because I fall into a routine which quickly becomes boring and I end up sitting around waiting for my resources to pile up. Dawn of War drags after a while because I build up a large army and max my population cap then send it to bulldoze anything in my path.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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Check out the total war series. Also Sins of a Solar empire, it's addictive as hell. Civ 4 obviously. Supreme Commander (the first) but thats more economy based. The ones I listed are the bigger scale ones. Not the kind where you build a few awkward looking space marines and chuck them at the opponents base ala sc2.

EDIT: Why do people get so touchy about sc2 anyway? It's just another unimaginative bog standard RTS with 90's style rock paper scissor gameplay.
 

hawkeye52

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company of heroes is one since you should be able to take down tanks quite easily with bazookas, panzershcreks etc but if you monumentally fuck up you could easily lose that battle. also depending on bulding choices and command trees you pick as well makes a massive difference to the games outcome.

also for a more country running game you could take the total war series if you want indepth battle tactics or go for europa universialis 3 if you want a strategy game with a lot more depth where the focus is on diplomacy and running you country effectively rather then just being able to win the battles at key points
 

zehydra

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Oct 25, 2009
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I'd have to say Starcraft, since... Does anybody remember that article that was published on here a while ago about competitive starcraft?
 

Kebabco

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Jun 5, 2010
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I think the thread would have benefited from a clear definition of what strategy actually is.
Imho (can't be bothered to look it up :)) strategy implies taking an opponents actions and plans into consideration and optimize your situation depending on that.

Tactics on the other hand are pre-planned plans for certain often-repeated situations that are bound to arise in the course of the game/battle.

Then of course you have the skill of execution which is how fast you can click acurately.

Discuss?
 

Aeshi

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Dec 22, 2009
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Most RTS games these days focus on "intense battles" which basically means defenses are either nonexistent or rubbish,a move basically the equivalent of taking the Rock out of Rock Paper Scissors
 

jez29

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Nov 18, 2009
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Sartan0 said:
Strategy:

1. The science or art of combining and employing the means of war in planning and directing large military movements and operations.
2. the use or an instance of using this science or art.
3. skillful use of a stratagem: The salesperson's strategy was to seem always to agree with the customer.
4. a plan, method, or series of maneuvers or stratagems for obtaining a specific goal or result: a strategy for getting ahead in the world.

Tactics:

1. The art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle.
2.( used with a plural verb ) the maneuvers themselves.
3.( used with a singular verb ) any mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success.
This. And well done all the people who posted along these lines.
In terms of real-world military theory, there are three levels of warfare (obviously gaming has developed its own meanings for the following terms, but here's the actual theory). First there's the two basics

Tactics: actions on the battlefield, ranging from 'how can I move so I can shoot that one guy', up to company (120-ish men), perhaps regimental level manoeuvres. Decisions made by privates, non-commissioned officers, captains etc.
Strategy: your overall purpose in war. Where in the theatre of war do I need to position my forces? Why I am fighting this war? What are my goals? This is the stuff that the generals and, in the modern age, the politicians decide.

Round about the time of Napoleon, a third tier came in between strategy and tactics, due to the sheer size of modern armies and the scale of the battlefield available:
Operational art: the large-scale manouevre of forces such as corps, divisions and armies. Instead of small units of men flanking each other, we're talking entire armies, supported by tanks, artillery, airpower, flanking equally sized units. Its often said that where strategy and tactics are sciences, this level is an art.

In these terms, the OP is right: many real time strategy games are actually all about tactics, ie. Starcraft, Dawn of War and so on. Total War titles are a good synthesis of tactics and strategy, but they don't get the big picture very well. Grand Strategy games like Hearts of Iron and Europa Universalis are great at the high-level stuff, but not at tactics. I can't think of any game that has achieved an absolute simulation of war at all levels.

However, 'strategy' in gaming terms has come to mean something different - the ability to think logically, to know what units counter what, what buildings to construct when, what part of the map to rush for first, etc. Ultimately, we can only sort out this threat if the OP tells us which definition of 'strategy' he's talking about - the military term, or the gaming term.

Sorry about all that, I study military history at Uni. I can't help myself!
 

Primate

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Mar 2, 2010
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Short answer : No...
Long answer : Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

;)

*The above comment may have been inspired by content on found on this website*