Are Humans Inherently Selfish?

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ThatPurpleGuy

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Feb 4, 2010
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I don't care about all that psychological stuff as the evidence of human selfishness is pretty obvious to me. We are selfish and there is nothing at all wrong with that.

The truth is even when people do things to help others, they are most likely doing it to feel good about themselves..Is this a bad thing?? No because another person was helped, but the person doing the helping shouldn't delude themselves into thinking they aren't selfish. It a human trait that none of us can get away from..Much like people with "power"..People are inept at handling positions of power and will inevitably be corrupted in some way..Are they bad people?? No, not neccasarily, but they have the same flaws that all humans have.
 

Karhax

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Jun 30, 2009
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For a person to do something completely not selfish these things must be true:

You must not enjoy doing it.
The effects make you feel bad about yourself.
It does not help you in any way.

A truly selfless act would be for example to give all your money to something horrible, lets say the sex toys for pedophiles fund. (assuming you are not a pedophile yourself)
 

Duskwaith

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Sep 20, 2008
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I know a psychiatrist who strongly argues that everything we do, even helping people, is selfish. Said example is because of the feel good factor of helping someone.

Survival instinct one could argue
 

SmilesX-23

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Dec 15, 2009
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Scott Scherbring said:
I remember learning in Sociology class that humans are inherently selfish but only so they can be better off. It makes me think if selfishness is the original sin the church preaches.
I had never thought of it that way... interesting.

everything we do for others will help us so even if we go out of our way to help others we will still be helping ourselves so no matter what we can be seen to be selfish, so selfishness is just self preservation
 

DancePuppets

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Nov 9, 2009
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I always have problems with this sort of question because defining something like selfishness in anything that can be properly argued to a single point is either extremely difficult or impossible. It is possible that many of the things we do are for personal gain, but then you have to take into account that in some cases there will be a loss involved for the person doing it. Now the question is whether that loss is worth more than the gain to the person involved. An example:

A man sees someone who is apparently very ill in the street and decides that he needs to drive said person to the hospital immediately,

Negatives: By doing so he knows that he will miss an afternoon of work and not get paid, will probably get in trouble and he will also use fuel, which will cause an increase in stress levels for the man.

Positives: The man feels good for doing what he sees as a good thing (endorphin release or whatever, sorry I'm a physicist not a biologist).

Without knowing the exact value of both the positive and negative sides of this "transaction" to the man in question it is impossible to know whether this was in fact a selfish act. The only actual way to measure something like this would require a far greater understanding of the operation of the human brain than is currently available, allowing determination of the exact amounts of specific chemicals released into the brain. I do know that I have done things for people in the past that have caused me pain because they were part of my moral code and I felt that the only correct course of action was to do them. I still believe such actions were selfless, particularly as they left me worse off than I was beforehand while improving someone else life and that if I had chosen to bend my morals slightly I would have been better off at the cost of someone else.

I do realise that this is a more scientific approach to the problem than you probably want, but as someone who is doing a PhD in astrophysics I have a tendency to attempt to approach such problems (which do have a scientific answer, just one that requires a greater understanding than is currently available to our species) from a scientific standpoint.
 

An Gealt

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May 23, 2009
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Just a simple answer. I would say yes. I've been a human all my life and its one of the definite things I've noticed
 

Darwins_Folly

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Yes people are inherently selfish. But no more so than any other creature on the planet. Every organism alive has been programmed by billions of years of evolution to selfishly pass on their genetic code. In our species we came to the point where reciprocal altruism allowed us to have a functional society. It is better for each individual if everyone is not out for themselves. So we cooperate, but for selfish reasons.
 

Crayzor

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Yes people are inherenetly selfish. But then again, so are all animals, Its the survival instninct, to make sure that your survival is guaranteed. Why are we nice to people? So they will be nice back. Why do we give to charity? Because it makes us feel good. And why do religious people often do so many good things? To buy a place in whatever afterlife they beleive in.
 

Shane Wegner

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Apr 2, 2010
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I'm going to say... Qualified No, people do things that border on unselfishness. Here is why.

1- Having kids, inherently unselfish (personal level). Having kids doesn't benefit you personally in the long run. You are still going to die. You don't get to transfer your soul into the husk of your children when you die. If you could, then it could be construed directly selfish. But the fact is, no matter how many copies of your DNA you put into this world, YOU don't get to benefit from it directly. When you're dead, you're dead and that's the end of your self. Maybe the act of creating the children was totally selfish because it feels good, but many people go beyond that, actively putting effort into their children. Maybe our children will take care of us in our old age and maybe they won't. Even if it feels good to take care of our children, we still die someday and won't be fully repaid for our "unselfish" efforts.

2- Situations where helping others costs trivially more than not helping them. Situations where "I lose nothing and somebody else gains something." If I'm driving to work, and someone lives very nearby to me, I might let them car pool with me. Their weight will only add a few pennies of cost since most of the cost is the car pulling its own weight. I lose next to nothing, they gain something. Maybe they throw in a few bucks for gas and maybe they don't. Even in the grenade situation, where there isn't time to throw the grenade back. I'm dead either way. Having my comrades die too doesn't make me LESS dead. So, since I'm a goner anyway, why NOT throw my body over the grenade and try to soak up some of the blast. I lose nothing that I wasn't going to lose anyway, and maybe I save some of them.

3- Evolutionary effectiveness. Wolves working together can bring down bigger buffalo and eat where single wolves would starve. Pack and hive structures exist throughout nature (bees, ants, chimps, bird and fish flocks, every social animal). The pack strategy is by working together we can survive better than working on our own. Sometimes the pack helps us (parenting, pack protection), sometimes we help others or lay down our lives or at least some of our food for the pack. Humans are no different. We are the children of parents who worked with the human tribe rather than went it totally alone. As such, we are not total loners and not dedicated totally to the self. We aren't just "self-ish", but we are more "self or pack-ish". Now, helping the pack IS generally good for the self, but as I said sometimes we sacrifice for the pack. That's the trade off! Seeing it this way is seeing ourselves as something more- what is good for us is good for the pack, what is good for the pack is probably good for us (but might be bad for us personally- when we sacrifice for the greater whole.)
 

Legendsmith

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Crayzor said:
And why do religious people often do so many good things? To buy a place in whatever afterlife they believe in.
It doesn't work like that for Christians.
 

Tharwen

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The only truly selfish part of us is our DNA. We exist only to prolong its existence. That's why we help people in our community (who are likely to share the genes that drive us to do this), and naturally alienate outsiders (who are unlikely to share our genes).

Yes, I have been reading Dawkins.
 

DoomyMcDoom

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I would say most are... not all, I for one feel nothing really overtly towards anyone, and i hate myself for some of the many things i have done or do, do... but i still somehow find it enjoyable to make others happy... even if i don't get to see it... even if they treat me like shit after... doesn't matter...

maybe i'm just odd...
 

Wicky_42

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scobie said:
Just gonna have to burst your bubble here, because it seems like you (and probably some other people reading this thread) have fallen victim to a common misconception, i.e. the "good of the species" concept. This is a concept that was popular in the early stages of evolutionary science but has been considered obsolete for decades now. Unfortunately, it's still hanging on tenaciously in the public consciousness. Organisms never act for the good of the species. They evolve to act for the good of themselves, even if everyone loses out as a result. In fact, it's been suggested that this can even lead to extinction of a population [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_suicide] if it's bad enough. An individual sacrificing themselves for the good of the many does not make evolutionary sense unless that sacrifice helps their genes in some way. Explaining this sort of behaviour is one of the major challenges of applying behavioural ecology to humans. Sorry if I've misinterpreted what you've said, but this is something that really bugs me every time I see it.
How does altruism fit in there? Surely if selfishness was an evolutionary superior trait, then no-one would be altruistic - after all, what good would it serve? Social networking? But if everyone is selfish, you'd still loose out. No, things are much more complicated than 'everyone is selfish', and that argument starts loosing its cohesion when it becomes 'selfish' to be nice to people because it 'makes you feel good'.
 

Darwins_Folly

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Tharwen said:
The only truly selfish part of us is our DNA. We exist only to prolong its existence. That's why we help people in our community (who are likely to share the genes that drive us to do this), and naturally alienate outsiders (who are unlikely to share our genes).

Yes, I have been reading Dawkins.
The Selfish Gene should be mandatory reading for all.
 

Stoic raptor

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Well, if being selfish helps you and everyone else, dosnt that mean being selfish can be a good thing?