Are mainstream devs deliberately discouraging women from gaming?

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Shall we take a look at the logic?

Large male gaming demographic > dev makes game tailored to guys (sexist/boobies everywhere etc)> female gamers say 'hmm okay that's not for me/ I don't feel comfortable' > Large male demographic > game devs say 'see we were right to make it for guys girls don't play games!'.

Repeat.

It's just a horrible self perpetuating cycle :/

I dotn think ti always has to be "this is for boys" and "this is for girls"

most of the time anything specifically for girls is crap...

anyway blockbuster movies and even games have more of a "universal" apeal...it is slightly skewed towards guys BUT its still apealing enough for almost anyone to enjoy (think dark knight or inception)

It's not what I meant.

If game devs go out of the way to make women feel uncomfortable then how can they expect women to buy or play their games?

I can play Skyrim fine for example but The Witcher makes me feel physically ill. I love Deus Ex even thought you play as a guy because he isn't a complete asshat and women are represented as intelligent beings and not just there as eye candy.

The demographic is going to show more women buying games if they make women feel like they are as equal in the dev's eyes as the male audience.

 

[Vault101]

It's not what I meant.

If game devs go out of the way to make women feel uncomfortable then how can they expect women to buy or play their games?

I can play Skyrim fine for example but The Witcher makes me feel physically ill. I love Deus Ex even thought you play as a guy because he isn't a complete asshat and women are represented as intelligent beings and not just there as eye candy.

The demographic is going to show more women buying games if they make women feel like they are as equal in the dev's eyes as the male audience.

oh, I agree

but you just showed (more or less) that at least a few big AAA games dont have women running around in chain male bikinis..the witcher thing actually seems like an almsot minority..so things are "sort of" getting better

though cat woman needs to fix her fucking zipper

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

It's not what I meant.

If game devs go out of the way to make women feel uncomfortable then how can they expect women to buy or play their games?

I can play Skyrim fine for example but The Witcher makes me feel physically ill. I love Deus Ex even thought you play as a guy because he isn't a complete asshat and women are represented as intelligent beings and not just there as eye candy.

The demographic is going to show more women buying games if they make women feel like they are as equal in the dev's eyes as the male audience.

oh, I agree

but you just showed (more or less) that at least a few big AAA games dont have women running around in chain male bikinis..the witcher thing actually seems like an almsot minority..so things are "sort of" getting better

though cat woman needs to fix her fucking zipper

I just feel like recently devs have discovered they can hide behind 'historical reasons' and 'It's lore' to explain away pandering to their male audience and excluding women.

It's lore that Conan is a big racist. I doubt they would make a game that included that part of his character so why is Geralt's sexism acceptable? It's the same level of offensive.

 

[CAPTCHA]

I'm going to agree that there are somewhat a lack of female centric games, but throw the fact that it's primeraly a western issue. Japan doesn't seem to have this problem. A lot of the stuff they relase seems to be very female and/or homosexual friendly. Persona, Final Fantasy, even games that at first glance appear to be aimed at males like Bayonetta and Catherine have an air of femininity about them.

It's only western developers that seem to have a problem with catering for a female demographic, perhaps becuse the figures don't match up (though it could be argue that this is a self fulfilling prophecy). We even have a Japanesse critique of western gaming to go by here. Vanquish was made as a western style game and what do we have: a thirty-something landscape gardener in power armour with a hot blond chick in a mini skirt in support. I think that a strong contrast to their previous project with the "fabulous" bayonetta.

ED: I'm talking in regards to the AAA industry here. Lesser devs and social games don't seem to follow the trend so much.

 

[The Madman]

Let's be honest here, more men play video games than women, especially when it comes to the more 'hardcore' style games. A lot more men. Thus developers tend to cater to their intended audience.

When more women get into gaming as a hobby and make themselves known as an influence within the medium things will change, until then you'll have the majority of hardcore games catering towards the majority of their audience. It's a pity really, but there you go. Sort of a self-perpetuating circle: not enough women play these sorts of games and so developers generally don't try to appeal towards them which, in turn, discourages more women from playing games.

Statistically around 2 in 5 'gamers' are women which sounds encouraging until you realize that of those around 80% primarily play on the wii, where it would be a fair guess to say they're not playing games like Resident Evil 4 (Which was awesome on the wii) but more of the wii sports, wii fitness type of games. source

Again it's a shame but there you go.

On a side note I continue to disagree with you about The Witcher, but I remember we've talked about that before in a previous topic and I really don't feel like another bout of pointless debate that will change nothing.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

btw when I say a guys movie im referring to something like an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

The demographic thing isn't an excuse it's quite possible to make games that cater for both sexes just by making women people and not objects.

Like Deus Ex for example or Mass Effect.

It's on the developers to sort things out if women buy their games now and stomach the sexism they will just think we are okay with things as they are.

 

[Shadu]

I for one just don't care. Whether they are targeting me, as a female gamer, or not, doesn't matter to me. And the fact is that even in this day an age, men are still more likely to pick up a controller than women.

If a male character is a pig, that's what I call him, and then I move on in life. If the society the women is in treats her poorly, then that's the society. It sucks, and it is rather true-to-life, but it happens. I know some men seem to think of women as objects, and I know they are wrong.

I guess I just have a hard time getting worked up over stuff like this when I've been picked on my whole life for being "one of the guys," and now it's viewed as a good thing. Seriously, I'm "one of the guys" at work, but very secure in who and what I am. So, I don't care what others say I should or shouldn't do. I do what I like, and that's it.

And that kind of got off topic. Basically, so what if the gaming industry never moves from the men-centric view point? Play video games anyway! The equipment you own should not dictate what you do for pleasure.

Edit: Also, it has been my experience that if you make a female character strong, it is usually handled incorrectly and just makes them come off as a prick. There are ways to do it, but most of the time, it is not done well. In that sense, I'd almost rather have the "typical female" character. At least then, I can sort of pity her in her pathetic-ness instead of despising her for being insufferable.

Example? Riza Hawkeye and Olivier Armstrong in Fullmetal Alchemist are both strong female characters I like. But I think the main difference in that is a female wrote them.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Nobody is going to stop me from playing video games anytime soon, but there is a problem and I think saying 'just get on with it' isn't really that helpful.

 

[The Madman]

The demographic thing isn't an excuse it's quite possible to make games that cater for both sexes just by making women people and not objects.

Like Deus Ex for example.

I never said it wasn't possible. Probably my most loved game is called 'The Longest Journey' after all, that's a game with a strong independent female lead who can appeal to both men and women alike. I genuinely and truly wish there were more games out there like TLJ, in spirit if not necessarily in gameplay.

Doesn't change however that developers will nevertheless cater towards their majority audience. Every medium does this, books, games, movies, hell if I knew anything about plays I'd bet they do it too!

 

[Shadu]

snip

Nobody is going to stop me from playing video games anytime soon, but there is a problem and I think saying 'just get on with it' isn't really that helpful.

Maybe it isn't, but I also don't forsee anything changing in the future, so I don't see the point in complaining about it. But then, I'm more of a "suck it up and deal with it" kind of person. That's just the way I am.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Doesn't change however that developers will nevertheless cater towards their majority audience. Every medium does this, books, games, movies, hell if I knew anything about plays I'd bet they do it too!

Yes but that's not a reasonable excuse and just perpetuates the problem...

snip

Nobody is going to stop me from playing video games anytime soon, but there is a problem and I think saying 'just get on with it' isn't really that helpful.

Maybe it isn't, but I also don't forsee anything changing in the future, so I don't see the point in complaining about it. But then, I'm more of a "suck it up and deal with it" kind of person. That's just the way I am.

It's a good thing women didn't have that view about the vote or staying at home huh?

 

[The Madman]

Doesn't change however that developers will nevertheless cater towards their majority audience. Every medium does this, books, games, movies, hell if I knew anything about plays I'd bet they do it too!

Yes but that's not a reasonable excuse and just perpetuates the problem...

Again, never said it didn't. I even said so in my initial post. I agree with you on this, I might not agree about your thoughts on Witcher (Or Mass Effect being a good example for that matter!), but otherwise I'm in total agreement.

It's stupid, it's juvenile, and it paints the entire gaming medium in a bad light. Nevertheless it's probably not going to change until developers are forced to change, and the only thing likely to do that would be if more women started playing 'hardcore' games and made themselves known.

 

[Shadu]

Doesn't change however that developers will nevertheless cater towards their majority audience. Every medium does this, books, games, movies, hell if I knew anything about plays I'd bet they do it too!

Yes but that's not a reasonable excuse and just perpetuates the problem...

snip

Nobody is going to stop me from playing video games anytime soon, but there is a problem and I think saying 'just get on with it' isn't really that helpful.

Maybe it isn't, but I also don't foresee anything changing in the future, so I don't see the point in complaining about it. But then, I'm more of a "suck it up and deal with it" kind of person. That's just the way I am.

It's a good thing women didn't have that view about the vote or staying at home huh?

It's a good thing not all women just didn't care. It's not that I don't care at all, but it's way different to have a right to do something as opposed to simply being misrepresented. I just don't see it as big of a deal. Now, if there was suddenly a law saying that no women could play video games, then I'd care.

But then, going down the road we started on, are all movie makers trying to dissuade women from seeing movies other than romances? Or books trying to keep us from reading? Of course not. Granted those two mediums have more of a variety, but it's a similar argument. Just saying.

I'm not saying you're wrong, honestly I'm not. And I'm not saying I'm right because I know I should care more, but the fact is...I just have a hard time doing it. It's not diminishing my enjoyment of anything, and I'm not being hindered or forbidden from it, so it's hard to get me all worked up over it.

And that kind of got off topic. Basically, so what if the gaming industry never moves from the men-centric view point? Play video games anyway! The equipment you own should not dictate what you do for pleasure.

Speaking as a man, I would enjoy the opportunity to play more games where the protagonist is not a generically handsome, poorly defined male stereotype with short brown hair. You know, for variety's sake. I don't think I'm asking for a lot here.

I would enjoy the opportunity to play as something other than that too. Not disagreeing with you there. I am sick of the same male construct all the time. But I'd rather have more of a variety in my males than have to watch a female on screen. However, it would be nice to have both so we each enjoy what we are looking at. Haha.

 

[Vault101]

I just feel like recently devs have discovered they can hide behind 'historical reasons' and 'It's lore' to explain away pandering to their male audience and excluding women.

It's lore that Conan is a big racist. I doubt they would make a game that included that part of his character so why is Geralt's sexism acceptable? It's the same level of offensive.

I didnt play much of witcher so I cant tell how sexist Geraldt is (it may not be him specifically..jsut the sexy card thing)

witcher is based off of a book...so it couls just be keeping in line with the scource material

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I just feel like recently devs have discovered they can hide behind 'historical reasons' and 'It's lore' to explain away pandering to their male audience and excluding women.

It's lore that Conan is a big racist. I doubt they would make a game that included that part of his character so why is Geralt's sexism acceptable? It's the same level of offensive.

I didnt play much of witcher so I cant tell how sexist Geraldt is (it may not be him specifically..jsut the sexy card thing)

witcher is based off of a book...so it couls just be keeping in line with the scource material

yeah that was my point, Conan is racist in the source material doesn't mean they would make him a racist in a game...and it hurts people just as much.

It's something they should have left out in my opinion.