Are the descendents of cultures who have been treated poorly playing victim?

[zarix2311]

...oh boy here we go. I've been wondering this for a while now, maybe It's because I don't really come from a culture that was enslaved, murdered or discriminated against on a massive scale (recently), but I don't see why people from these aforementioned cultural backgrounds get upset or in your face when the topic comes up. I mean I understand what happened to your ancestors was just horrible, but why are you acting like your the one who was there when it happened, or the one who got mistreated. I'm not trying to racist or discriminating, but I just can't understand because I don't have a situation to relate it to.

Note: I know that not everyone from said cultures makes a big deal out of it. As previously stated I'm not trying to be racist I just want to understand. Also there is no particular gender, culture etc... I'm referring to.

 

[zarix2311]

My view of it is, unless you personally were enslaved then you have no right to whine.
My ancestors have been fucked over by the english. You don't see me crying about it.
Why? Because nothing actually happened to me.

I also feel the same way even about modern shit. Take 11/9. Unless you lost a friend/family/loved one you really have no right to talk as though it affected you in any way.
Hell, trying to claim it harmed you just basically mocks those who actually were affected by it.

Most people who do this sort of shit just do it for the attention. They use it to take some imaginary moral highground or to invoke pity.
They should be pimp slapped for even trying such a weaksauce tactic.

That's more or less how I feel.

 

[Toriver]

You know what? Let's learn something today.

South Park [http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155500/stan-gets-it]

 

[zarix2311]

You know what? Let's learn something today.

South Park [http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155500/stan-gets-it]

I love that episode!

 

[photog212]

Ok, gonna try to make this brief.

Point 1-

Black people were up rooted from their homes in Africa, placed on slave ships and brought to the New World, once here they were separated from their families and forced to co-mingle with other tribes (different traditions, language's, etc)-This causes a lack of identity. The genealogy of most African Americans can only be traced to slave records, beyond that...who knows? The majority of white Americans typically identify with their cultural heritage (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc) even if their families have been here for a hundred years.

Point 2-

Slavery ended a while ago but segregation is only two or three generations behind us.

John Smithington comes to the New World from England circa 1790. He works at a general store- Makes money passes it down to son- son can go to college- opens his own store- passes down to HIS son- he can go to college- becomes lawyer-makes lots of money passes it down

This family has multi-generations that can purchase land and pass down benefits creating a wider and stronger "safety net"


The flip side is:

Slave-Slave-Slave-Freed slave (illiterate)- works in a store- segregation ends can finally open a store-passes down to son

The generations that have had an equal shake a far fewer.


TL;DR-
Slavery still has an impact on society today

 

[TehCookie]

Say you're greek and play victim along with them. Fucking slave drivers always making our ancestors work for no pay! I demand payment for the work I never did!

 

[ScumbagEddie]

I'm part Scottish, who we all know were persecuted against mercilessly by the English. That doesn't make me want to punch every English person in the face, whine about it to my friends of similar descent, or place unrealistic demands on a country for something that happened centuries ago. I didn't live then. I don't care. People need to get over themselves and their "poor me for what happened to my ancestors" bullshit. Same thing goes for people hating an entire country full of people for what a couple people do. Specifically the animosity towards Americans. It's hilarious. Not everyone in the USA is a redneck warmonger douchebag, just like every English person isn't a pompous asshole, just like every German isn't a Nazi in disguise, and definitely, just like every Muslim isn't a terrorist. We're all stuck on this planet together, guys. Learn to deal with it.

 

[Still Life]

...oh boy here we go. I've been wondering this for a while now, maybe It's because I don't really come from a culture that was enslaved, murdered or discriminated against on a massive scale (recently), but I don't see why people from these aforementioned cultural backgrounds get upset or in your face when the topic comes up. I mean I understand what happened to your ancestors was just horrible, but why are you acting like your the one who was there when it happened, or the one who got mistreated. I'm not trying to racist or discriminating, but I just can't understand because I don't have a situation to relate it to.

Note: I know that not everyone from said cultures makes a big deal out of it. As previously stated I'm not trying to be racist I just want to understand. Also there is no particular gender, culture etc... I'm referring to.

It's a ripple effect, and it can't be understated how it impacts on people's lives.

Here in Australia, the colonials tried their best to tear apart Aboriginal culture and disenfranchise my ancestors and my family.

They failed.

However, there has been a lot of damage done and the people who are living in another person's home have a moral and ethical responsibility to 'right' the 'wrongs'. Besides, Western societies can learn truck-loads from Indigenous knowledge.

Look into the concept of whiteness and white privilege. That may help you to better understand the issues.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Worth noting about white cultures is that we were all (95% of us at least) enslaved by the upper classes for thousands of years in slavery and serfdom, not to mention as massive numbers of political prisoners up until the late 1980s.

Everyone in history have been mistreated by someone, except the powerful (though there are exceptions to this one too)

So yes, unless you were personally mistreated, you don't have a legitimate complaint by virtue of existing and belonging to the wronged group.

 

[Jonluw]

When the discrimination of your ancestors has actually had a negative impact on your current social situation, I'd say you have a right to complain; but if you're fine off but demand special privilieges due to the injustice performed towards your forefathers, you're just being a prick.

 

[Still Life]

Worth noting about white cultures is that we were all (95% of us at least) enslaved by the upper classes for thousands of years in slavery and serfdom,

Everyone in history have been mistreated by someone, except the powerful (though there are exceptions to this one too)

So yes, unless you were personally mistreated, you don't have a legitimate complaint by virtue of existing and belonging to the wronged group.

That's not very good excuse for perpetuating social and cultural inequities.

not to mention as massive numbers of political prisoners up until the late 1980s.

So, did the native Africans come and take over your land and take your children?

 

[Thaluikhain]

However, there has been a lot of damage done and the people who are living in another person's home have a moral and ethical responsibility to 'right' the 'wrongs'.

I disagree with that. Citizens of a nation are as much citizens as any other citizens...you might want to limit that to citizens born in a nation, but the same applies. Ancestry should be irrelevant. The wrongs of long ago should be, not forgotten, but not be placed upon people living today.

On the other hand, the wrongs that still exist now should be dealt with now. And there's an awful fucking lot of them. I can agree with dismissing the discrimination against previous generations if they are diverting attention from the discrimination against current people.

Look into the concept of whiteness and white privilege. That may help you to better understand the issues.

Absolutely. It's easy to dismiss prejudice when it's happening to someone else, it's easier still to deny privilege when you are benefitting from it. Nobody likes to be told they've got an unfair advantage they should relinquish.

 

[sam42ification]

...oh boy here we go. I've been wondering this for a while now, maybe It's because I don't really come from a culture that was enslaved, murdered or discriminated against on a massive scale (recently), but I don't see why people from these aforementioned cultural backgrounds get upset or in your face when the topic comes up. I mean I understand what happened to your ancestors was just horrible, but why are you acting like your the one who was there when it happened, or the one who got mistreated. I'm not trying to racist or discriminating, but I just can't understand because I don't have a situation to relate it to.

Note: I know that not everyone from said cultures makes a big deal out of it. As previously stated I'm not trying to be racist I just want to understand. Also there is no particular gender, culture etc... I'm referring to.

Yep they definatley do. Aboriginals in Australia pull that all the time the sadest part is i know more about what happened then they do. People that should do this are just using it because a lack of imagination and a way to vent steam and they should stop the bitching it was horrible what happened but we have moved on get over it. I hate it how a lot of cultures get benifits like getting more money for being apart of a certain culture and yet they behave like they have been wronged i would kill to get into some of their situations. Some universities in Australia let aboriginals in for free.

 

[Angry Camel]

It depends on whether the descendants have actually been impacted in a negative way by what happened to their ancestors. For (a very extreme) example, if your ancestors were herded undeground and the descendants have to claw their way back up, more power to them. However it does get tiresome to see people exploit their culture's history to gain sympathies.

Most rational people don't judge people based on their parents. Why it is acceptable to go the other way and use what happened to their parents (or further back) is beyond me.

 

[Still Life]

Citizens of a nation are as much citizens as any other citizens...you might want to limit that to citizens born in a nation, but the same applies. Ancestry should be irrelevant. The wrongs of long ago should be, not forgotten, but not be placed upon people living today.

I can't speak for the rest of the world and history is such a textured matter. However, in Australia, the issues are modern history and not ancient, so ancestry is very much relevant. Indigenous people here have every right to complain because history is still very much affecting us.

 

[BonsaiK]

As an ex-forum moderator on another forum, I feel discriminated against that this thread isn't in Religion And Politics. I feel like my equal rights are being trampled on and someone should do something about it, so I don't have to.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yep they definatley do. Aboriginals in Australia pull that all the time the sadest part is i know more about what happened then they do. People that should do this are just using it because a lack of imagination and a way to vent steam and they should stop the bitching it was horrible what happened but we have moved on get over it. I hate it how a lot of cultures get benifits like getting more money for being apart of a certain culture and yet they behave like they have been wronged i would kill to get into some of their situations. Some universities in Australia let aboriginals in for free.

Aboriginals are, statistically, at a massive disadvantage. Much lower life expectancy, less likely to be educated, less likely to be employed. Admittedly, yes, that would seem to be at least in part to the fucked up positive discrimination intended to correct this (not letting DoCS interfere when actually neccesary, because of connotations with past practices that weren't, for example, is a fucking disgrace), but the problem remains.

 

[zarix2311]

As an ex-forum moderator on another forum, I feel discriminated against that this thread isn't in Religion And Politics. I feel like my equal rights are being trampled on and someone should do something about it, so I don't have to.

oops

 

[Still Life]

i know more about what happened then they do.

Some universities in Australia let aboriginals in for free.

No, you don't know a lot.

If you want something clarified, PM me and I'll bring up the tons of research and even hook you up with people who can help you understand things clearer.

Or, you can go ahead and keep ignoring (recent) history.