are there ANY bioware rpgs that are bad

[Midnight Crossroads]

Not that I've seen, but the stories and characters can pretty much be interchanged in a few. I got a lot of deja vu playing Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and KoToR. That's not unique to them though. The plot of Starcraft and Warcraft 3 is also quite similar.

Other than plotlines, there's also a whole bunch of bugs(especially KoToR) and bad combat that seem to be rampant. The only Bioware game that has combat I enjoy came from Mass Effect's active combat.

 

[Nimzar]

Well Mass Effect is barely an RPG so I can't say that. Dragon Age was fucking terrible compared to Baldurs Gate.

Um... Every cRPG is terrible when compared to Baldur's Gate. It's like saying cake is terrible compared to pie. Yes, pie is much much better, but cake is very good and has much to offer as well.

There is an error in your statement.

I must therefor conclude that you are either not a gamer or not on Earth.

I can see two errors in your statement.

I'm a full fledged gamer, and I'm on Earth.
Or on a planet that looks just like Earth and can connect to Earths internet.

We will never know which...

Must be the second option. Occam be damned.

 

[NickCaligo42]

Sonic Chronicles. Dragon Age. KOTOR; Especially KOTOR. It was great for its time, but it's one of those things that seriously hasn't aged that well.

You're quite right on KotOR not aging well. I played through it again a couple months ago and it was not a pleasant experience. Just thinking about the number of mechanics that could/have been expanded upon, the graphical updates, many elements that now seem standard in RPGs that are strangely absent in KotOR. I do still love the story though.....

Does Bioware have any "bad" games? Not in my opinion, no. I would say Dragon Age is my least favourite but it is not bad, just lacking in comparison.

you do know that kotor was made in 2003

Yes, and there's far older games that have aged a lot better. I played Chrono Trigger for the first time this past winter and it easily holds up alongside more modern RPGs for me. Bioware's own Baldur's Gate II is one of those games that's a lot BETTER than I remember it being. KOTOR... not so much. It had the dubious honor of being their first console outing, and the dis-ease of that transition really shows. They're halfway between that pseudo-RTS-derived top-down system from Baldur's Gate and a third-person action-RPG, so the interface is awkward and unpolished. Graphically it looks fine for an Xbox game, but like some folks have said there's Xbox and PS2 games that have aged better in this department. The story's good, but in a lot of ways the flavor of it is really distant from Star Wars and closer to typical fantasy. Case-in-point: the first planet has you dealing with people who turn into as close to D&D ghouls as you can get in Star Wars. Finally, the narrative decision system in KOTOR isn't as good as the ones they developed in future games in that it's loaded with systemic rewards and very clear "better" choices. I'm not saying they've perfected this formula by any stretch of the imagination, and in fact the Mass Effect games suffer from the same problems, but less so than KOTOR.

As for Sonic Chronicles...

This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyoMQg3d5cs] is the final boss theme from Sonic 3. It is one of the most glorious 16-bit tracks ever created and a favorite among all the oldschool Sonic fans out there that Bioware was trying to appeal to.

This [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrpglqYeQBc] is the Sonic Chronicles version of that same song.

Has the issue been put fully in perspective yet? That's what this game is to the rest of the Sonic franchise. And make no mistake, people don't object to Sonic games being slower or to the additional characters--they object to the games sucking hard balls and just find those superficial concepts to be the easiest ones to blame. Now, Sonic Chronicles isn't as terrible as some of those, but it's not exactly the Sonic equivalent of Paper Mario. Paper Mario is cleverly written and very original. Sonic Chronicles is technically competent except for the music and filled with tiresome references and characters all but nudging the player and going "Eh? Eh? Remember how good that was? Eh?" Yeah, it's not Sonic 2006. It's not an unfinished piece of shit game that barely works... but it's DREADFULLY phoned-in and not up to Bioware's standards.

 

[warprincenataku]

I was totally unaware on the Bioware/Kotor II connection or as I should say, lack there of.

 

[Baby Tea]

Not to me, no.
I've never played a Bioware RPG I didn't love.
KotOR, NWN, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 (And expansions), Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1 and 2, Dragon Age...loved 'em all. Love the gameplay, the storylines, the characters, everything. I still play the Baldur's Gate saga to this day, with it being my favourite game series over-all.

I love Bioware.

 

[Slythernite]

I did not, and still do not, like Dragon Age Origins. It didn't click with me.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Not to mention that with the name being Dragon Age I'd thought I'd see a dragon, you know, before 30 hours of game time (and no I don't count the little dreams or whatever)...

You do realize the name "Dragon Age" is actually referring to the Era of time in which you are a part of in the game, yes? It was never meant to literally mean you would be facing umpteen numbers of dragons. Though yes, most of them are in the Sacred Ashes storyline. But there is a reason for that, as well.

Yeah, and I thought I remembered hearing at one point that it was referred to the "Dragon Age" because that was when the dragons 'returned to the land'. I only saw 2 the entire game, but then again, the last 10 hours I ignored any form of side quest... Oh, and that was another thing... I had like 30 active quests and no clue where to go half the time...

There are at least 12-20 or more dragons in the entire game, including the drake spawns in the Sacred Ashes game, the smaller dragonlings, the High Dragon, Flemmeth in her High Dragon Form, and the Archdemon. Two shadow dragons as well, if you count Awakenings. Though the Era name itself came from the remembrance of the High Dragons and their pillage of the land centuries back, and their occasional re-emergence in Ferelden.

As for the quests, well.. most of them are pretty self-explanatory. Not sure what went wrong for you there.

It was mostly in that one place... erm... in the mountain with all the dwarfs... Having to constantly find people and walk around not doing anything remotely fun...

 

[JeanLuc761]

yes yes I know I'm crazy but since bioware has made so many good rpgs, I thought I had to ask

I'd say Mass Effect II was a bad RPG, but in all honesty, it wasn't an rpg.
It was a completely gutted version of the first game catered to the mindless saps of the third person shooter generation.
Way to cater to the masses, Bioware....

Nevermind the better shooting mechanics, the improved conversation system, incredible characters, massive expansion of subplots introduced in the first (genophage, quarian/geth conflict, etc), complex moral issues, improved pacing and perfectly directed final mission.

OT: I've never played a Bioware game I didn't like, but I haven't tried Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire or Baldur's gate yet...

 

[Optimystic]

Neverwinter Nights was terrible. The mechanics were already outdated when it debuted (3.5 vs. 3.0) and the story was paper-thin.

I loved it for what it was - electronic D&D, complete with DMing - but for all that it did well as a D&D simulator, it failed miserably as a game with narrative.

 

[Flamezdudes]

I've only played Dragon Age: Origins and the Mass Effect games and love them, but i'm going to buy all the Baldurs Gate games soon and maybe NWN too to try them out. I love BioWare though

 

[zHellas]

In the entire cast bar Tali and that psychic guy

Who are you talking about?

 

[Pearwood]

In the entire cast bar Tali and that psychic guy

Who are you talking about?

The biotic, I don't remember his name. Google tells me it's Kaiden.

 

[migo]

Baldur's Gate was a bad game, the story was good but as far as a game it was bad mechanics paired with a railroady dick DM. If you wanted to go off the map on a different route than what the story had planned you just got killed by an enemy that was far too powerful for you to deal with. It gave the illusion of freedom and a sandbox but in reality it was just a fairly accurate simulation of a bad tabletop RPG session, which is the reason the tabletop version of the hobby is in such decline.

You could go off exploring, after you've gained som levels and gotten some nice equipment. This is one of the reasons I really like Baldur's Gate. After being ass-raped by a gang of ogres or something I'd say: "Just you wait you fuckin' ogres! Just you wait! I'll be back and then I'll kill you! I'll kill you all!!! Muhahahaha!"

When you start of you're basically a kid who never even went out of the fortress, what do you know about fighting monsters? It gave a sense of danger to the world, knowing that some monsters you don't fuck around with! That's something I miss in newer games, like Dragon Age. I really like that game, but it's a bit too easy. I'm running around on Nightmare difficulty and I'm seldom having any problems at all, hell I've had more trouble with the Gnoll Fortress than with the Arch Demon. But anyways, when you finally beat those ogres, it gives a real sense of having progressed, you're not that kid anymore, you're becomming a full-fledged, monster-killing, adventurer!

So yeah, I don't mean to question you're taste or anything. Just felt like sharing my mind, since Baldur's Gate 1&2 are at the top of my favourite games list.

I know you could do that, but it's still like being railroaded. It's something I put up with when I first played it since I was used to the poor DM mentality created by the DMG, so it didn't seem out of the ordinary and was actually fairly authentic to the source material (AD&D 2e) in that aspect. But I've since played infinitely better RPGs, with much better GMs and read much better advice, and also played computer RPGs that handle things far better.

I was actually enjoying Final Fantasy X-2 up until Chapter 5. Chapters 1 & 2 I actually was covering everything, and I'd figured out how to get Paine's special dress sphere in Chapter 1. Chapeter 3 I started getting a bit bored and worked through to Chapter 5 quickly, but I all of a sudden was too low level because I didn't grind enough and just couldn't progress anymore. Baldur's Gate is the same way - it forces you to advance before being able to go somewhere else, and the gameplay isn't that good. The strength of Baldur's Gate was always the story telling, and the gameplay gets in the way of being able to experience the story, and there's the illusion of choice and having a sandbox when you're really railroaded just as much as Final Fantasy X. I prefer the honesty in it that Final Fantasy X shows to just tell you the story. Freelancer is a game with a similar problem - you just can't go wherever you want, and when you go back to an earlier area, everyone's too weak and there's no replay value.

With games like Final Fantasy VIII and Oblivion that I've played now, where the enemies level with you, and you can do things in any order, either getting straight to the main plot line at Level 2 or going off to do side quests until you hit a much higher level, or in the case of FFVIII having to do someo of the main quests first and then doing the side quests, but being able to choose my own pace rather than having to grind a certain amount, I really can't be arsed to play games with such an archaic design.

It's like playing a game that makes you write down a string of letters as your save spot instead of actually saving the game for you. Technology has advanced far enough to not have to bother with crap, and in this case it's story design has advanced far enough.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

I hated the KotOR series

 

[Keava]

I don't think any of their games was bad, in a way a game can be bad. Even their flawed productions still were well done and with commitment. As much as I hated NwN vanilla campaign, the multiplayer aspect of the game with fan base created modules more than made up for it, making me stick to that single product till WoWs release.

While their games may not appeal to everyone, they are thought out and polished, and pretty much none other studio managed to create something of even similar quality over last years.

 

[GothmogII]

Neverwinter Nights.

Though Hordes of the Underdark expansion did make up for it somewhat. Plus all the great community mods.

Also, Bioware made Baldur's Gate. How can you not like them?

Yeah, I'd agree NWN was weak as far as their other stuff goes, but personally, I thought Shadows of Undrentide was the weaker game. Even if it did introduce Deekin, the rest of it felt like an over ambitious mod rather than a full fledged game.

As for worst altogether, Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Yeah, by BioWare standards it's not a completely awful game, getting average scores, but it's certainly their worst RPG.

 

[DSK-]

Jade Empire. I predicted [insert char here] would be the bad guy and it was pretty disappointing to me. Still, at least John Cleese was in it.

 

[GothmogII]

Not having played everywhere Bioware RPG, I really can't say.
I wouldn't count any of them as unbearable, but I think I had the least fun with the original campaign for Neverwinter Nights 2. The original campaign for the first NWN was also pretty weak, and I didn't care too much for Icewind Dale (if I wanted a dungeon crawler, I'd play Diablo.)
But I enjoy Bioware's work, by and large, and will continue playing their games.

Icewind Dale was Black Isle (using the BioWare developed Infinity Engine)

 

[iwinatlife]

I Really didn't like mass effect haven't played the second one but so far I'm loving Dragon age i don't understand why so many people hate it but i guess I'm weird i loved KOTOR