Are transgenderism and transsexuality mental illnesses?

[Batou667]

No. For the simple fact that "treating" a trans person doesn't involve "treating" the mind.

Do hormones not affect the mind? Is alleviating the mental aspects of gender dysphoria not one of the purposes of gender reassignment?

I'm not sure if I'd call transgenderism a mental illness, though. A disorder, sure.

The problem is that classifying transgenderism and gender dysphoria as mental disorder, or mental illness, does not help, it doesn't help at all. It actually makes things worse, because of the stigmas attached to mental illness.

Well, unfortunately classifications and definitions can't be wished out of existence just because they make some people feel uncomfortable. The purpose of a classification is to act as a statement of verifiable truth, not as a form of linguistic social justice that can be siezed upon and changed by the weight of wishful consensus.

Some devout Christians feel offended by the fact that biologists classify humans as apes. Well, here's a penny for the I-don't-give-a-shit Jar; nomenclature isn't for the layperson to vote for with their emotions.

 

[mrdude2010]

No. It's not something like depression or schizophrenia or some other mental illness where your brain scan is really fucked up, it's just your brain scan looking like the opposite gender. What are you going to do about that? It's not even remotely curable, you would have to take whatever supplements for life to mimic the effects of your physical sex.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

No. For the simple fact that "treating" a trans person doesn't involve "treating" the mind.

Do hormones not affect the mind? Is alleviating the mental aspects of gender dysphoria not one of the purposes of gender reassignment?

I'm not sure if I'd call transgenderism a mental illness, though. A disorder, sure.

Well good thing you're not in charge of definitions, the psychological professional community has already decided by majority it's not a mental disorder. I think I've shown you the most up-to-date DSM definition before, which requires a strong set of evidence to classify something as a mental disorder. They found that gender dysphoria does not qualify as a mental disorder, or mental illness, it's a condition.

The problem is that classifying transgenderism and gender dysphoria as mental disorder, or mental illness, does not help, it doesn't help at all. It actually makes things worse, because of the stigmas attached to mental illness.

Well, unfortunately classifications and definitions can't be wished out of existence just because they make some people feel uncomfortable. The purpose of a classification is to act as a statement of verifiable truth, not as a form of linguistic social justice that can be siezed upon and changed by the weight of wishful consensus.

Some devout Christians feel offended by the fact that biologists classify humans as apes. Well, here's a penny for the I-don't-give-a-shit Jar; nomenclature isn't for the layperson to vote for with their emotions.

The finny thing, as classifications and definitions go, as I just pointed out, gender dysphoria and being trans is not classified as a mental disorder, or mental illness. At least not in North America, but I'm pretty sure most of the first world doesn't classify gender dysphoria that way anymore. Just like how they used to classify homosexuality as a mental illness, then stopped, because they were obviously wrong there too.

As for nomenclature, well the common nomenclature is anymore that gender dysphoria is not a mental disorder. You need to take that into consideration, perhaps read some of the links posted by people in the know here.

 

[anthony87]

Remember folks:

Asking questions = Having digs/shitposting.

*sigh*

Hm. Well, I could look at a virtual consensus in the mental health community, and a large body of medical work, that says it is.

But then we've already got people in the thread claim they've sources saying that it isn't. Honestly I can see why OP would be confused about it.

 

[runic knight]

An interesting question, what is trangender classified as in terms of how it affects the brain? I think illness isn't the right word for that, as it is more a different wiring than standard rather then the standard wiring short circuiting somewhere which is how I would see a mental illness (the brain breaking from the normal as opposed to being formed that way). People touched on autism and depression though as similar in being specific wirings of the brain different from the standard that are persistent and naturally formed as well, and that is a worthwhile point to mention. A mental disability or disorder might be closer, as depression and autism would probably be closer classified as, though again transgenderism is less disability so much as an alternate one in this case.

It is neurological in cause though, and a deviation from the normal healthy patterns brains usually have. It may or may not affect the quality of life of the person in the same way autism may or may not, though I can't see it as something normal for the brain in the same way autism is not normal for the brain too. This is also different from homsexuality to me, as the conflict between the mind and body in transgenderism represents an actual physical misfiring (wrong body for mind wiring) compared to just an uncommon sexual preference (still right body, right mind wiring).

I think this all does lead to the question though, that when it comes to transgender as an issue a person must address, what is the better way to address the disparity between the mind and body, by addressing it at the mind, or addressing it at the body. The body is easier to address, though the body might be normal to begin with. The mind is harder, though it is the location of where the difference occurs. It also brings up questions of how much of the identity is shaped by the wiring of the mind and how ethical or worthwhile it is to try to affect the mind to fix issues with mentality.

How transgender is classified suggests where to address the conflict between mind and body for people affected by it. So any answer there will affect how people view treatment of it. and I think that too is part of the overall topic, that it does suggest it needs treatment of some sort as it is a problem of wrong mental wiring for the body possessed, something that shouldn't be ignored if it is case going on in someone's head.

Of course, you more often get people interjecting politicization and in particular battlefield mentalities into the mix, taking the discussion and personal affronts, and these sorts of conversation and questions become a right mess to sort.

 

[astrav1]

I know the title might be triggering to some, but hear me out for a moment.

I feel I should preface the question by also stating that I feel everyone should be treated the same and afforded the same rights. An ideal world is a world completely devoid of persecution of any kind. A transgender person should be called by their chosen gender and receive exactly the same treatment as everyone else.

Now:
I think identifying as transgender might be a mental illness for the same reason homosexuality is not. You do not "treat" homosexuality, but you "treat" transsexuality.
I know there are some people who are content without hormone treatment and operations and being called simply by the right "he" or "she" word, but let's go by the more general definition of a transsexual: Someone who wishes with all their heart, that their body would be that of the other sex, because they simply do not feel that they belong in the body in which they were born.

Utopian scenario:
A homosexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. The homosexual is as happy as everyone else.

A transsexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. While the transsexual might be happy with their situation, they are still not content within their own body and require treatment to better their mental health.

Again I must stress me having these thoughts does not mean I advocate some form of discrimination or bullying - quite the contrary; but I am asking it simply because I am curious about your thoughts.

What are your thoughts? Is this all meaningless or is it a valid discussion?

I would add that me thinking "transsexualism" to be mentally damaging to the owner and requiring of treatment doesn't make any transsexual worth less in my eyes. I think, on the other hand, that it would be helpful to make the classification which would potentially help family and friends to reach out for treatment while a child is still young to help them fulfill their desires and attain more happiness in their life.

This is actually an interesting way of looking at it. I would say that it's not an illness, even with that Utopian suggestion. However, as people have said, I view it as still a defect in the brain. Not one that makes someone worse or bad, just different and not, "normal". I kind of view homosexuality the same way. Humans have one definite purpose in life, and that is to breed, so when you breed with something that can't be bred with, that would be considered not working properly. Thankfully the whole, "person" thing makes it so people have other things that give them worth other than purpose or function.

 

[Something Amyss]

Remember folks:

Asking questions = Having digs/shitposting.

And that's not what people are saying.

But then we've already got people in the thread claim they've sources saying that it isn't. Honestly I can see why OP would be confused about it.

If only we could determine good sources from bad somehow.

 

[Dizchu]

I know the title might be triggering to some, but hear me out for a moment.

This is a poor way of opening your statement as it implies that criticisms of these sorts of posts are knee-jerk reactions by people who are offended by such opinions. The fact is, transgender people have heard things a thousand times worse than what you're saying, they're hardly gonna be "triggered".

Now:
I think identifying as transgender might be a mental illness for the same reason homosexuality is not. You do not "treat" homosexuality, but you "treat" transsexuality.
I know there are some people who are content without hormone treatment and operations and being called simply by the right "he" or "she" word, but let's go by the more general definition of a transsexual: Someone who wishes with all their heart, that their body would be that of the other sex, because they simply do not feel that they belong in the body in which they were born.

If transgenderism were a mental illness it implies that cisgenderism is the "healthy" state of being and that transgender people can be "cured" of transgenderism and become a cisgender person of their current biological sex. So basically a transwoman who was cured would become a cisgender man and the same with transmen and cis women.

This brings up many necessary questions about what personhood even is, as gender identity (or lack thereof) is such an important aspect of most peoples' personalities. There is no way of making a transgender person become a cisgender person without making huge alterations to their character, and by that point is that person still the same person?

A transsexual is afforded the same respect as everyone else. No discrimination. While the transsexual might be happy with their situation, they are still not content within their own body and require treatment to better their mental health.

Correct, but it's not being transgender that is the mental health issue, it's depression and anxiety. Why do people become depressed? Because they feel inadequate, like they don't belong, like the world is openly hostile towards them. If transgender people weren't discriminated against, that'd get rid of most of the mental health problems immediately, though many will still remain just because gender dysphoria is such a horrifying thing to experience.

Mental health treatment can only ever help the patient cope with this issue, it can't "cure" it. The only hypothetical cure is a completely perfect gender transition, but medical technology is limited and even when it can produce fantastic results, that level of treatment is rarely accessible for everyone. Transitioning is an extremely difficult process which can bring a whole new bunch of problems along with it. But because transgender people pre-transition can present themselves as their assigned sex and have nobody be aware of their gender identity disorder, people assume that if they just "switch off" the part of their brain that's causing the problem, everyone can be fine. But it's not that simple. To make an analogy, such a thing isn't like removing a corrupted file from a hard drive, it's more like deleting System32.

 

[Something Amyss]

Wanting to cut off your penis or breasts is no different than wanting to cut off your arms or legs. They have medication for that.

Actually, they don't. That's why this is literally the prescribed outcome, while no reputable doctor will recommend amputation of a healthy limb.

EDIT: I should add "for the individuals in question." Surgery is not required, but one has to get extensive screening for it.

 

[Something Amyss]

-snoip-

Zeconte was also correct in noting I miswrote. I said the opposite of what I'd intended, and therefore sent mixed messages.

 

[anthony87]

And that's not what people are saying.

Except for the two people in this thread but whatever.

If only we could determine good sources from bad somehow.

That'd be nice alright, like how Avast tells you the safe porn sites from the dodgy ones.

Not that I'd know anything about that.........*cough*

 

[Terminal Blue]

I think identifying as transgender might be a mental illness for the same reason homosexuality is not. You do not "treat" homosexuality, but you "treat" transsexuality.

Right, except you do "treat" homosexuality.

You "treat" homosexuality by acknowledging that a person is gay, by supporting them as they move through the difficult stage of "coming out" or becoming openly gay and by not pressuring them into being someone they're not. It's exactly the same.

It's worth noting, I think, that many gay people do experience trauma or unhappiness in relation to being gay, which may require psychiatric help or treatment. The fact that someone may require "treatment" doesn't make the source of their unhappiness a mental illness, otherwise military service would be a mental illness.

 

[Something Amyss]

Except for the two people in this thread but whatever.

I don't see anyone who thinks this i legit asking questions making that accusation. And given the OP has been addressed on the topic before, it's safe to say that no matter what his motives are, he's not "just asking questions."

That'd be nice alright, like how Avast tells you the safe porn sites from the dodgy ones.

Not that I'd know anything about that.........*cough*

Weirdly enough, we kind of do. We have general medical consensus, Google Scholar, and probably other tools that aren't coming to mind because I'm on like 2 hours seep in 72 hours. You can look at who's saying what, and how specifically they are regarded and how reliable their medical opinion is.

 

[Terminal Blue]

snip

The BDD analogy is one that gets done to death, but it's fundamentally dishonest. BDD is a delusional state which has more in common with anorexia and OCD than with gender identity disorder, a person with BDD possesses a distorted view of their own appearance which stems fundamentally from interior anxiety. Thus, surgery or attempts to "correct" the offending bodypart are generally not sufficient to help people with BDD, just as no amount of dieting will cure a person of anorexia.