Are we ready for games starring queer/trans heroes? Mainstream and Indie
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Ah right, when the other poster mentioned there was supposed to be a same sex couple in the game, that's who I thought of. But I'm going to sound like a right old person out of touch with society, because I honestly didn't get that vibe from the characters - I just thought they were good friends!Mikeybb said:
I'm trying to be as vague as possible for anyone looking over these posts but feel free to tell me to shut up if I'm veering into spoiler territory.
Well, I mean...NIER exists. And it seems to be a cult hit. But the character that is trans/hermaphrodite/whatever the hell she's classified as doesn't absolutely flaunt it everywhere, it's just an important story point.
Yoko Taro makes some weird-ass games for sure. I'll have to play them sometime.
Yoko Taro makes some weird-ass games for sure. I'll have to play them sometime.
At first I thought this was about Trans* characters in particular. On that note, I played a Genderqueer boss in the Saints Row series. Went to the Image as Designed constantly to get sex changes. Honestly Saints Row is one of the best games around when it comes to playing Trans* characters, I'm not joking.
Anyway, LGBT characters, cool. A number of games already have them and games will continue to do so in the future. I for one am happy to see more LGBT characters in the future. Fallout: New Vegas is one of my favourite examples of LGBT characters in games, you can be whatever sexuality you want. It has a number of LGBT characters for whom their sexuality is a part of who they are but never defines them, you know, like real life.
Anyway, LGBT characters, cool. A number of games already have them and games will continue to do so in the future. I for one am happy to see more LGBT characters in the future. Fallout: New Vegas is one of my favourite examples of LGBT characters in games, you can be whatever sexuality you want. It has a number of LGBT characters for whom their sexuality is a part of who they are but never defines them, you know, like real life.
From what I remember he hits on you once after you get to know each other and start to become friends (surprise, someone who fancies you hits on you) and if you turn him down he gets upset and stops. You also gain some rivalry points with him, the equivalent of disapproval. So basically man hits on someone, gets rejected and is a little upset as a result. I don't see why people complained about it myself.the silence said:
Indies can get away with just about anything since they have very little exposure to the public eye, but a AAA game? I can see a big budget game put a gay character (not a player created one) as the PC, but it would definitely come under fire by conservative news outlets. I don't see them getting away with a trans PC anytime soon, however.
Well, considering you could have a gay Shepherd in ME, and that didn't get too much insane wrath about it, and the game was pretty popular, I'd say it's possible. There will always be detractors, but I doubt they will accomplish anything other than pissing and moaning.
I think it would depend on how central the character's sexuality/gender identification is to the story. If it's just "a thing" about him/her, while the game is actually focused on other stuff happening, I think the backlash will be less insane. If the entire game is about the character's sexual/gender identification, then you will probably have more negative reactions.
For myself, if the game was just about the character being trans/gay then I probably won't bother playing it. Simply because I just don't care to play that kind of game. Not out of any distaste for that group of people, I just don't find that kind of game very interesting.
However if the game was about something else that I did find interesting, and it just so happens that the protagonist is a trans/gay, then I'd be more inclined to actually check out the game.
short version: make the character 3 dimensional, and give them other traits aside from "i'm gay/trans" and the game will probably do just fine. Make it nothing but that fact, and focus the entire game on it, and you will probably have a lot of problems.
I think it would depend on how central the character's sexuality/gender identification is to the story. If it's just "a thing" about him/her, while the game is actually focused on other stuff happening, I think the backlash will be less insane. If the entire game is about the character's sexual/gender identification, then you will probably have more negative reactions.
For myself, if the game was just about the character being trans/gay then I probably won't bother playing it. Simply because I just don't care to play that kind of game. Not out of any distaste for that group of people, I just don't find that kind of game very interesting.
However if the game was about something else that I did find interesting, and it just so happens that the protagonist is a trans/gay, then I'd be more inclined to actually check out the game.
short version: make the character 3 dimensional, and give them other traits aside from "i'm gay/trans" and the game will probably do just fine. Make it nothing but that fact, and focus the entire game on it, and you will probably have a lot of problems.
As I recall he will keep flirting until you directly rebuff him. After that, I don't recall him bringing it up again. My issue with that part in the game though is how your standing with him takes a big negative hit if you turn him down. Even if you do it with the "polite" option, he still drops in favor with you a lot. This annoyed me, considering I've had this very situation happen to me several times. I've had gay men hit on me and ask me out I think....4 times? Maybe 5 in my life? And each time it was a very polite, relaxed situation when I turned them down. I politely explained to them that I wasn't gay, but thanks anyway. Aside from a minor bit of shock/disbelief that I wasn't gay (I guess because of how relaxed I am around openly gay people), and a slight bit of embarassment on their part, things were fine. It was just a "oh, woops, my bad, didn't mean to offend you" "no it's cool, no offense taken, I just don't swing that way, thanks anyway. So have you seen that new movie out?" So yeah, slightly off topic I guess, but that part in the game always annoyed me in how Bioware coded the reaction to the rebuff.the silence said:
Well, I'm split.
I tend to fall on the 'I couldn't care less" argument about SJW issues. If you want to make a game with a pansexual tigerkin protagonist, by all means do it. It aint my business to tell anyone else what they can't put in a game. Japan puts sex in games? ok. The US puts hyperviolence in games? again ok. LGBT protags? Why the hell not?
That being said, if "I" can't connect to the character, I won't buy the game. That not to say I couldn't connect with an LBGT character being straight, I mean I connected with Lee in the Walking Dead and I'm white. The point here is that the character can be different, as long as it isn't suffocating it can work. Using the Walking Dead again, nobody makes a big deal over the PC being black. There's one point where it's joked about(the lockpicking 'urban' bit) but it's primarily ignored.
The point here is there's a difference between having a character be out of the 'straight white 30ish man' mold, and being a statement instead of a character. If they make a character who is a character before a statement, I'd try it. What I'm concerned about is that we might get a protag/pc that is defined by it, instead of the other way around.
The discussion I've been seeing makes me think instead of a character who just happens to be lgbt, its the focus, and that would turn me off of the game. As a straight white man, I'd play something different, as long as it's not trying to preach or something similar. The character comes first, the traits come second.
tl;dr
Would I play an lgbt character? Yes.
If the character's defining trait is: "I'm the protagonist and oh boy am I gay!" No.
I tend to fall on the 'I couldn't care less" argument about SJW issues. If you want to make a game with a pansexual tigerkin protagonist, by all means do it. It aint my business to tell anyone else what they can't put in a game. Japan puts sex in games? ok. The US puts hyperviolence in games? again ok. LGBT protags? Why the hell not?
That being said, if "I" can't connect to the character, I won't buy the game. That not to say I couldn't connect with an LBGT character being straight, I mean I connected with Lee in the Walking Dead and I'm white. The point here is that the character can be different, as long as it isn't suffocating it can work. Using the Walking Dead again, nobody makes a big deal over the PC being black. There's one point where it's joked about(the lockpicking 'urban' bit) but it's primarily ignored.
The point here is there's a difference between having a character be out of the 'straight white 30ish man' mold, and being a statement instead of a character. If they make a character who is a character before a statement, I'd try it. What I'm concerned about is that we might get a protag/pc that is defined by it, instead of the other way around.
The discussion I've been seeing makes me think instead of a character who just happens to be lgbt, its the focus, and that would turn me off of the game. As a straight white man, I'd play something different, as long as it's not trying to preach or something similar. The character comes first, the traits come second.
tl;dr
Would I play an lgbt character? Yes.
If the character's defining trait is: "I'm the protagonist and oh boy am I gay!" No.
probably not.. I have no problems with real life gay/ bisexual/transgender people but I don't wanna play as one in a game since I'm a straight male and wanna play as a guy.. though I occasionally play a as female character in some games wherr the female is the main character or where you can choose betweeen male or female character( I play through once as a male then a second time as a female character, like in the Dragon Age games or the Saint's Row games).. though i do think games where you can make your own character should have an option (like Saint's Row 2 did with it's body scaling) to make it fair rather then just male or female body types
This, basically.BeoW0lfe said:
As an aside I will restate that it blows my mind that people praise EA/Bioware as a forward thinking, progressive company, when all they are doing is exploiting sexualities for profit and they're perfectly okay with that.
But I supppse thats okay because they have a "fully gay" character.
An overtly gay man? Can it be a third person action game where he yells "FABULOOOOOUS" when he pulls off a combo? I'd play the fuck out of that for the sheer hilarity.
OT: Personally I couldn't care less about the gender, sexual orientation, or race of the character. I has no bearing on whether or not a game is good or shit.
I imagine the "twitter-sphere" (I feel like cutting whenever I say that) will likely go mad with death threats. But then again, what else is twitter for? Some people would simply be turned off by it, some would be drawn to it because it's different. If I had to guess I'd say the losses would outweigh the gains, but not by a lot. It just depends on whether or not a AAA company will have the guts to give it a shot, but if they predict a loss of even one sale because the PC is 'X', then they'd probably go back to generic white duderino. They'll follow the money.
OT: Personally I couldn't care less about the gender, sexual orientation, or race of the character. I has no bearing on whether or not a game is good or shit.
I imagine the "twitter-sphere" (I feel like cutting whenever I say that) will likely go mad with death threats. But then again, what else is twitter for? Some people would simply be turned off by it, some would be drawn to it because it's different. If I had to guess I'd say the losses would outweigh the gains, but not by a lot. It just depends on whether or not a AAA company will have the guts to give it a shot, but if they predict a loss of even one sale because the PC is 'X', then they'd probably go back to generic white duderino. They'll follow the money.
I assume everyone is gay and trans until or unless proven otherwise. I fail to see why this would be so controversial.
I hate the phrasing used, "Are we ready?" What does that mean? There are always going to be people who will support and oppose any decision, gaming is no different.
Assuming there is no issue with how characters are depicted (which there will be), some will support including more diverse characters and there will definitely be people who will oppose it. Additionally, there will be people acting maliciously toward each other. None of this will ever change, it is inherent. So in what way could we be ready or not ready?
Shorter response: who cares if we are ready, make the games anyway, that's how progress happens.
Assuming there is no issue with how characters are depicted (which there will be), some will support including more diverse characters and there will definitely be people who will oppose it. Additionally, there will be people acting maliciously toward each other. None of this will ever change, it is inherent. So in what way could we be ready or not ready?
Shorter response: who cares if we are ready, make the games anyway, that's how progress happens.
Why are some people obsessed with being queer and trans-friendly? I don't want a queer or trans friendly character in video games, television, or literature unless the writer takes this seriously. I'm sick and tired of seeing the words queer, trans, LGBT tossed around lazily and causally just so people can prove how politically correct and progressive they are. I don't care if the character's gay, straight, bisexual, transsexual, asexual or whatever. If you really want to be trans or queer friendly, then you better be prepared to make a character with compelling story and flaws that aren't related to their sexual orientation.
This is exactly what I thought of when I saw the thread title. People could probably accept a gay protagonist in a mainstream video game. Just as long as you don't show him, uh... being gay.Zhukov said:
I've never played the game but I've heard plenty of complaints about him being too forward in his interests, apparently shoving his sexuality down their throat (Imagery). You know, I think I've seen something like that before. Could it be in any of the many games where all of the female love interests fawn over the male protagonist? Why don't you get complaints about them being too forward about their sexuality? Okay, well you do, but I seriously doubt the "Stop Anders from hitting on me" crowd is the same as the "Less sexualization of female characters, please" crowd.
I get the feeling that while people are far more widely comfortable with others being gay nowadays, they're still not nearly as comfortable with someone acting gay. If you asked the average mainstream gamer to put themselves in the place of a man in love or physically involved with another man I doubt they'd be nearly as keen on it as with a straight relationship from the man's perspective.
I don't know really. I think Trans people make up such a small minority of the population, it's a bit pointless to have one as a character. Not that there needs to be a point.
I wouldn't really care. But, I think tokenism is something to avoid.
I wouldn't really care. But, I think tokenism is something to avoid.
I think they will flop, mainly because it will seem forced and in light of the GamerGate issues, it will be seen as suspicious. To what relevance will the protagonists gender/sexuality BE to the actual story and to what level will it be an after school special level morality tale?grassgremlin said:
I think the issue now is that said "diversity," will seem shamelessly forced, meaningless and just an attempt to inject something people are now suspicious of.