Are women jealous of men?

[FiveSpeedf150]

To be fair, women have had less time to develop this identity, since the feminist movement wrecked the old one. Men have been men and had the same gender identity since the beginning of history. The provider, the warfighter. The male "Gender Roles" have never changed.

The feminist movement worked to smash the concept that a Woman would be happiest and best suited as a mother and homemaker. So, for better or worse, the old identity is kinda gone and a new one has yet to be established, since "Gender Identity" is pretty much a euphemism for "Socially accepted stereotype".

 

[Violence]

So far, all I've gotten in this thread are reasons to not be jealous of men, ironically. Maybe 5% of the male posters had something intelligent and new to add to the conversation while the other 95% simply skimmed through the OP and gave themselves a pat on the back.

To suggest in a vast blanketing statement that all women think the same way isn't only wrong, it's downright ignorant. I won't lie, I was insecure during my adolescent years, but then again so were you. To imply that women are somehow incapable of leaving this pupa stage, having a role model of the opposite gender, or doing anything cool (or gross) without ripping off the male gender is absolutely insulting to both of us. Who decided those things were off limits to females in the first place? We're living in a new age, so stop trying to reinforce the cages that held us in the past.

When I was four, I ran around in my Batman costume all day. I begged my parents for that Ninja Turtle-themed birthday party. I played Nintendo. I had a BLAST. To say that all of these things are for males only is just retarded. You wouldn't have been able to convince me otherwise then, and you won't now, either.

 

[Legion]

Men have had thousands of years to develop a strong gender identity. We fart, we scratch ourselves, we eat big hearty meals, we like to look at boobs, we like explosions and cool ninja fighting and stories of manliness. 300 wasn't homoerotic, it was incredibly manly.

What a load of bollocks. I mean, yes, I like boobs, but that's instinctual for heterosexual males it has nothing to do with the 'man identity'.

The thing I don't understand is rather than them tell you what's wrong, you have to guess what's wrong with them.

Apparently after several million wild stabs in the dark I'm 'insensitive.'

Then again I suppose it's just my bad experiences, maybe there's a girl out there who isn't like that.

There are, they are just incredibly rare.

Only one questioned was produced from reading that...

Can I still be a manly man and enjoy a scented bath?

Apart from that, fair play...

Technically no, but why would you want to be a 'manly man' anyway?

That was a rather long essay to write in which you could have simply said:

"Women have periods."

I don't think they're jealous, they're just different. Guys are generally loyal to friends, whereas girls ***** beyond belief and switch "friendship groups" every month or so.

I just can't stand feminists: "Blah blah blah Suffragettes blah blah blah."

Yes, you have the vote; you are equal in almost every way (minus discrepancies on pay which are debatable on how often such situations occur); you can do whatever job you want.

How do feminists show their realisation of this? Moan that they are still totally unequal and slag off men constantly (then complain about men slagging them off - small wonder, huh?).

Agreed, but you should change 'feminists' to "femi-nazi's" because not all feminists are like that, only the vocal minority.

The idea that most women are insecure, more so than men, is a funny thing to say specifically on this forum, which is mostly composed of men who seem to admit much of the time that they are insecure, have low self esteem, etc. Including the OP. Hell, look at the fear thread! I saw several posters who said they were "afraid to talk to new girls."

Very true.

To me, the description the OP gives of women being petty and catty and throwing tantrums sounds like it's a depiction of women given off from the sitcoms.

Well you say that... but one of my best friends' girlfriend once threw a tantrum because he wouldn't tell her his password for his email address and apparently that means he doesn't trust her.

Well, what is the depiction of men given off on sitcoms? Usually slower, usually "whipped" by their spouse, usually obsessed with masculinity and fearful of exploring the more feminine areas. This is not how I see most men, with the exception of the latter.

Hit and miss with that one in my experience, seeing as I go to the gym a fair amount I come across those sorts of guys all the time. It largely depends on the crowd, as my friends are not like that at all.

I was about to write that I think men are much more afraid of being mistakenly perceived as gay than women are, but thinking about my guy friends, they aren't really like that. They are all really different from each other, most of them have a mix of masculine and feminine characteristics.

Indeed, that's what I was getting at before, it can largely depend on the group of people.

*snip*

Fair points, although the only one that I disagree with is the 'respect for hooking up with women' as that is only from friends as opposed to society's viewpoint.

TLDR: It's human, it's seen in both genders, acknowledging that there are exceptions doesn't change that you made a huge generalization. Lay off the sitcoms because that seems to be where you are drawing your conclusions from (this is purely speculative).

Also fairly true, there are way too many different people to make this generalisation because out of all the people in the world you can't box males and females down into two groups.

So far, all I've gotten in this thread are reasons to not be jealous of men, ironically. Maybe 5% of the male posters had something intelligent and new to add to the conversation while the other 95% simply skimmed through the OP and gave themselves a pat on the back.

To suggest in a vast blanketing statement that all women think the same way isn't only wrong, it's downright ignorant. I won't lie, I was insecure during my adolescent years, but then again so were you. To imply that women are somehow incapable of leaving this pupa stage, having a role model of the opposite gender, or doing anything cool (or gross) without ripping off the male gender is absolutely insulting to both of us. Who decided those things were off limits to females in the first place? We're living in a new age, so stop trying to reinforce the cages that held us in the past.

Well said.

 

[uncle-ellis]

"I have a hammer! I can put things together! I can knock things apart! I can alter my environment at will and make an incredible din all the while! Ah, it's great to be male!"

True bro, true.

Now lets go make war to prove how big our nobs are!

 

[Charli]

Am I jealous of guys? I would quite readily relieve myself of a foot to no longer have period cramps and emotions so hard to control I may one day be suseptible to running through a Zoo chanting an archaic ritual prayer at the top of my voice, so under that kind of approach yes. Yes I am.

Damn you men. And your...Man-ness.

However! I believe women are far more comfortable in their sexual identity (commonly) than men.

There are perks

 

[Eggsnham]

For the most part, I agree.

 

[JimmerDunda]

All I have to say is "what the fuck am I reading?"

 

[NRX]

I was going to read all these comments, but it's too late at night to do that (only read half of that third page). I feel that there is some misunderstanding in your first post. I too observe humanity, and try to keep myself out of the assessment. My hypothesis is that there are conflicting female identities at work here, one derived from American culture and the individuality of the person, same for the male. However, there are many factors that interfere with each and are different for each gender. Example being the need for 'masculinity' to be tough or it will be considered feminine in nature. A girl with boy-ish interests is called a tomboy, b/c there are defining objects that separate one from the other. There is also "conditioning" at a very young age to gravitate toward these objects. There is a little bit of a different mindset between men and women and that is derived from an emotional aspect. Women produce two/three different hormones for emotions while men only create one specifically. Women also have to deal with periods, but that doesn't mean that men can't have bad days either. It's all in the bio-rhythm, and that varies from person to person. No generalizations do not help in the slightest and only veil one from another's true-self-- but then again I have learned to feel out motives and when I do fall into generalizations which happens from time to time I will loose that ability. Insecurity arises from one of two sources, fear and low self-esteem and as far a American culture goes- an extremely competitive culture that focuses on monetary gain and reputation as a measure of success- may be more damaging to that individual. And just because you may not know alot of your friends like that, doesn't mean there is any more or less weight to the argument that some women are jealous not of the identity, but the power that is granted to one with that image because of the culture we live in. And winking at the cash register guy to get free stuff is another flaw of this culture. As long as women are viewed as weaker individuals and sexual objects, there will be some "special priveledges" that women have. I say have the equality and rid of those special priveledges, but it is easier said than done with the negative aspects of culture to deal with.
... and that's all for now. any questions/comments/counter arguments will be treated.

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

*clap clap*

You got us, there.

I'm a girl and yes, I am jealous of men. Mostly because I feel like there is so much girls have to do and things I would be so much happier without:

*Girls have to wear make-up
*Girls have to wear pretty (often uncomfortable) clothing
*Girls have the period (which hurts very much, btw... and gives uncontrollable mood swings )
*It's not as accepted for girls to be gamers (at least not amongst other girls)
And most of all, it is not as easy to be friends with men. If I want to spend time with men because I think they in majority have much better humour than girls, they always start talking about something else that is not as funny, just because I'm a girl.
FML

Please tell me you're being incredibly sarcastic here....

 

[Disaster Button]

I like you.

I also like the fact you didn't take your point on a long rant on how women want teh pen0r. It was actually structured and coherent and I liked it, especially the way you countered some of your own arguements at points. Actually made for a pretty interesting read, so thank you.

 

[Disaster Button]

That was a rather long essay to write in which you could have simply said:

"Women have periods."

I don't think they're jealous, they're just different. Guys are generally loyal to friends, whereas girls ***** beyond belief and switch "friendship groups" every month or so.

I just can't stand feminists: "Blah blah blah Suffragettes blah blah blah."

Yes, you have the vote; you are equal in almost every way (minus discrepancies on pay which are debatable on how often such situations occur); you can do whatever job you want.

How do feminists show their realisation of this? Moan that they are still totally unequal and slag off men constantly (then complain about men slagging them off - small wonder, huh?).

That's not what a feminist is, that's a feminazi, an extreme version of the feminist which seeks to forever ***** because its daddy didn't love it, except physically.

I'm indifferent towards feminism, not because I don't care because they should get equal oppurtunities as men where it counts, but I really hate the extremists who basically just want to rule the world with their vaginas. I also hate the way the media now has to erase anything that could harm the extreme feminists view and replace it with something that will show the man in a position of serving the woman, especially when most feminists (who are normal) hate that as much as us men do.

Anyway I can't even remember why I quoted you, I probably just wanted a jumping off point for a rant. I'll go now.

 

[Disaster Button]

Spoiler

Well, since I've been slapped on the wrist for my earlier conribution, here's a selection of comments based on this illogical and offensive rant.

On the flipside, take the entire feministic movement - how do men react? We shrug and belch and grab another beer.

Wrong. 1. 'feministic'. LOL. 2. The feminist movement and a sexist and otherise offensive neanderthal aren't diametric opposites, and neither side consists of just 'men' or 'women' - there are lots of men and women on both sides of the feminist line. To characterise it as you have shows you to be an unsophisticated thinker, erring on the side of the beer swilling clichéd stereotype you have described.

I don't mean to sound misogynistic. I'm definitely not a woman hater. What I am, is an observer. And what I observe is that women are petty and vicious, while men are demonstrably happier.

Regardless of what you mean to do, you certainly achieve misogynistic. You are indeed an observer, and the next quote shows some of the errors in your method.

I happen to be a guy with a fairly low self esteem, unsure of myself and sensitive in the bad way, and more prone to personal attacks and jealousy of strength. For that reason I consider myself a bit of a hybrid. Physically male, but with certain feminine personality traits.

So negative things about you are female, and further, weakness = feminine and strength = masculine? I suppose bashing another person with a rock to get what you want is something to aspire to? The strength/strength of will=masculine is the wrong assumption the underlines all of your thinking.

Men have had thousands of years to develop a strong gender identity. We fart, we scratch ourselves, we eat big hearty meals, we like to look at boobs, we like explosions and cool ninja fighting and stories of manliness. 300 wasn't homoerotic, it was incredibly manly. Real men staring death in the face and smiling.

No we don't. You may do, or may aspire to, and hate yourself because you don't, but we do not. Staring death in the face and laughing isn't manly, it is desparate, and if you are getting your 'gender identity' from films, and in particular cartoon films like 300 you should seriously rethink where your role models come from. Real people are not like that, and aspiring to that as your idea of manliness is embarrassing and childish, and worse, it is at least part of what is causing you to be so insecure.

I want someone like Dick Masterson to have no market for his shenanigans. Ideally, he can bleat all he wants about female inferiority, because the female gender will just snicker and move on, rather than lose its head and take up arms.

I almost agree with this. Up to the point where you put one bunch of touchy bitches as being the same thing as the whole gender. Have the whole male gender got up in arms about their video because you wrote this post? Or the whole male gender got annoyed by your thread because I got annoyed? No. Stop extrapolating from a tiny group onto half of all people.

Maybe I just wrote it because I like sounding smart.

If that was the intention, you definitely failed.

That, could actually be the dumbest thing I've ever read. What you did is take everything he said, focus on one tiny point, manipulated it and turned it against him. I'm not even going to bother analysing all of your comments because everything you said is wrong and the utter deffinition of stupidity and misusing evidence to suit your own points. But fear not, it didn't all come across as manipulaiton and stupidity, some of it came across as though you disagree and you can't deal with people disagreeing with you so you had to go and undermine their arguement. Bad you. Bad.

Also 300 is so not a cartoon film.

 

[Mako SOLDIER]

Hmm, I sort of agree, sort of disagree. Basically, I believe feminism is the problem. It used to be a great idea, but unfortunately, (much like with issues of racism but that's a different story) it has become seemingly acceptable for women to act in a manner towards men that would be seen as chauvanist and highly sexist the other way around.

This is where the response to the 'Jizz in my Pants' video comes from: a more agressive form of the casual sexism that abounds in every 'stupid men jokes' email than has ever done the rounds on the net. The problem is that there is a subsection of women that is still trying to get revenge for the old 'blonde, brunette, redhead' jokes that pretty much died out about 20 years ago. This group is most likely not a majority, but they are certainly a very vocal group. You know who they are, the women who are aggressive towards men in a completely irrational manner, probably due to a few bad experience with men creating a sort of 'pre-emptive counter attack' mentality.

These people, while I don't believe they are actually jealous of men, do fall into the type of behavour mentioned in the original post. But as for a lack of identity for women as a group? Is a group identity really needed? I personally find the macho identity for men to be a bit outdated and unevolved. Not to mention that it just isn't the norm anymore: there are so many male archetypes these days, and the macho physical specimen is just one of many positive aspirational images. Intelligence, creativity, etc are all characteristics that have become acceptable to focus on for men. These traits have been acceptable for women for a good while now too.

So, the only difference is that women haven't quite nailed a strong equivalent of the male macho archetype (although obviously there are still plenty of female olympians etc, but female action heroes etc still tend to be objectified to some degree*), but I don't really see that as a bad thing.

*However, logically, a woman at her physical peak is usually going to have an attractively athletic figure (after all, female bodybuilders only get huge by steroid use, it's just genetic that even muscular women will still be considerably leaner then muscular men), and male heroes have been stereotyped in a similar way for years really. Sexism is a peculiar thing, in that things that people think are sexist tend to not be, and things that others find relatively innocuous can be very sexist indeed.

EDIT: Just to clarify, the aggressive extreme feminists I describe here in no way represent what I feel to be a majority of women, far from it. I just think that they make more noise and therefore are infinitely more obnoxious for it as you can't really go a day without hearing (of) some ant-male sexism or other.

 

[ToChaos]

*clap clap*

You got us, there.

I'm a girl and yes, I am jealous of men. Mostly because I feel like there is so much girls have to do and things I would be so much happier without:

*Girls have to wear make-up
*Girls have to wear pretty (often uncomfortable) clothing
*Girls have the period (which hurts very much, btw... and gives uncontrollable mood swings )
*It's not as accepted for girls to be gamers (at least not amongst other girls)
And most of all, it is not as easy to be friends with men. If I want to spend time with men because I think they in majority have much better humour than girls, they always start talking about something else that is not as funny, just because I'm a girl.
FML

Please tell me you're being incredibly sarcastic here....

Yes, quite.

 

[Disaster Button]

Spoiler

Well, since I've been slapped on the wrist for my earlier conribution, here's a selection of comments based on this illogical and offensive rant.

On the flipside, take the entire feministic movement - how do men react? We shrug and belch and grab another beer.

Wrong. 1. 'feministic'. LOL. 2. The feminist movement and a sexist and otherise offensive neanderthal aren't diametric opposites, and neither side consists of just 'men' or 'women' - there are lots of men and women on both sides of the feminist line. To characterise it as you have shows you to be an unsophisticated thinker, erring on the side of the beer swilling clichéd stereotype you have described.

I don't mean to sound misogynistic. I'm definitely not a woman hater. What I am, is an observer. And what I observe is that women are petty and vicious, while men are demonstrably happier.

Regardless of what you mean to do, you certainly achieve misogynistic. You are indeed an observer, and the next quote shows some of the errors in your method.

I happen to be a guy with a fairly low self esteem, unsure of myself and sensitive in the bad way, and more prone to personal attacks and jealousy of strength. For that reason I consider myself a bit of a hybrid. Physically male, but with certain feminine personality traits.

So negative things about you are female, and further, weakness = feminine and strength = masculine? I suppose bashing another person with a rock to get what you want is something to aspire to? The strength/strength of will=masculine is the wrong assumption the underlines all of your thinking.

Men have had thousands of years to develop a strong gender identity. We fart, we scratch ourselves, we eat big hearty meals, we like to look at boobs, we like explosions and cool ninja fighting and stories of manliness. 300 wasn't homoerotic, it was incredibly manly. Real men staring death in the face and smiling.

No we don't. You may do, or may aspire to, and hate yourself because you don't, but we do not. Staring death in the face and laughing isn't manly, it is desparate, and if you are getting your 'gender identity' from films, and in particular cartoon films like 300 you should seriously rethink where your role models come from. Real people are not like that, and aspiring to that as your idea of manliness is embarrassing and childish, and worse, it is at least part of what is causing you to be so insecure.

I want someone like Dick Masterson to have no market for his shenanigans. Ideally, he can bleat all he wants about female inferiority, because the female gender will just snicker and move on, rather than lose its head and take up arms.

I almost agree with this. Up to the point where you put one bunch of touchy bitches as being the same thing as the whole gender. Have the whole male gender got up in arms about their video because you wrote this post? Or the whole male gender got annoyed by your thread because I got annoyed? No. Stop extrapolating from a tiny group onto half of all people.

Maybe I just wrote it because I like sounding smart.

If that was the intention, you definitely failed.

That, could actually be the dumbest thing I've ever read. What you did is take everything he said, focus on one tiny point, manipulated it and turned it against him. I'm not even going to bother analysing all of your comments because everything you said is wrong and the utter deffinition of stupidity and misusing evidence to suit your own points. But fear not, it didn't all come across as manipulaiton and stupidity, some of it came across as though you disagree and you can't deal with people disagreeing with you so you had to go and undermine their arguement. Bad you. Bad.

Also 300 is so not a cartoon film.

Maybe you should read back over your own post - would definitely rank as a nw number one for you. Unlike you, I am capable of giving justifications of my opinion, rather than just saying something is stupid and going back to pleasuring myself with a Cheetos-stained fist.
You are a moron. Here's why.

What you did is take everything he said, focus on one tiny point, manipulated it and turned it against him.

No. What I did was take a few of his points that I thought didn't make sense and comment on them, and state why I think they are wrong. This is how people discuss issues in forums. You should try it sometime.

I'm not even going to bother analysing all of your comments because everything you said is wrong and the utter deffinition of stupidity and misusing evidence to suit your own points.

Well that's helpful, I guess I should just take your opinion as gospel instead then. Good contribution - next time write 'U R STUPID LOL CAMPER FAG!!!!1111' and save us all time.

But fear not, it didn't all come across as manipulaiton and stupidity, some of it came across as though you disagree and you can't deal with people disagreeing with you so you had to go and undermine their arguement.

So my contribution to the forum should be what? Agree or not bother writing anything? I see that you follow what you preach here. Here's how disagreeing works - I don't think someone else's opinions on something, so I look at that their justification for that opinion (their argument), then I find where I think they've gone wrong, and show that argument to be false. If you don't engage like this, you're just shouting your opinions at each other without any real meeting of minds. Still, I don't need to tell you about this, you seem to be an expert.

Bad you. Bad.

Nice work. Juvenile attempts at patronising are a surefire way of making people respect you and your opinion. Thanks.

No, 300 isn't a cartoon film, it's an accurate representation of waht the battle of Thermopylae was really like, it's almost a documentary!

You're right. I'm sorry, I should've realised I was talking to someone who does so enjoy to be a hypocrite. And next time try and follow your own advice maybe and disagree without taking everything I said and making it sound like I'm some kind of extremist. You made a stupid ass series of comments, so I made one back to counteract yours if you will.

And if you want evidence then here's some:
Example: "Well that's helpful, I guess I should just take your opinion as gospel instead then. Good contribution - next time write 'U R STUPID LOL CAMPER FAG!!!!1111' and save us all time"

I offered my opinion on something you did stupidly, which is manipulate everything the OP said and try and make him sound like an extremist, much like you did to me. I never said my opinion was law I just threw it out there so maybe you could try and realise you made a massive dick move. Apparently I overestimated your intelligence and willingness to be less of a jerk, I'll try to remember that next time.

Oh and you didn't just disagree on his points, you disagreed on points which you obtained my manipulating his words which is a real dumb thing to do considering theyre written down. You then also proceeded to insult him and be a dick about it.
Example 2: "If you're intention was to be smart, then you sure did fail" I paraphrased, I know but it's too much of a hastle to quote something directly which you will no doubt manipulate again.

And don't take what I say and twist it in future please, the retardation you spewed out about 300 being an "accurate representation" made my brain bleed. It's a CGI film.

 

[Del-Toro]

I can't say I disagree, my case in point: fingernails. Yes I am taking the gist of this argument from Foamy the Squirrel but only because it's so true. Really, what men (aside from gay men, of course) really give a shit about fingernails, when a guy checks out a girl, he ain't looking at her fingers let alone the nails on them. It really just seems like another one of those things women do to outdo each other. Correct me if I'm wrong ladies, I just don't see the point other than to outdo your peers. Kind of counter-productive in terms of that whole feminism thing, you'd think you would be busy outdoing each other in politics and business like men already do. Then and only then will the process be complete. Go for the gold ladies, go for the gold.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Man, this makes my bullshit, psychologist, chauvinist and boredom sensors all go off at once.

Pointless rant, bad topic poorly researched, pandering to a demographic which will result in this becoming a flame war...

Man you're hitting all the buttons aren't you? And to top it off "Road" scholar. Seriously? Rhodes, it's a place where they teach you things like how silly this argument was.