I'd rather make my point rather than let his go unchallenged.stinkychops said:
Although considering the shitty OP, he argues against his original point all on his lonesome, thereby doing all the work for us, I guess. How thoughtful!
Are women jealous of men?
- Thread starter Charisma
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Although considering the shitty OP, he argues against his original point all on his lonesome, thereby doing all the work for us, I guess. How thoughtful!
There are only two things I find myself feeling jealous of concerning men: physical strength (sometimes you just want to punch people without breaking your hand) and lack of boobs. I'm sorry guys, but having boobs sucks. They're annoying, get in the way, and though I have neither the 'not enough of' or 'too much of' problem, I have certainly seen women who do/will have back problems because of them. I can tell you I do NOT envy the penis, even if it meant no period. Yeah it sucks, but I'm happy to be a woman, thank you.
Anyway. I've seen a surprising amount of civilized discussion for this topic, and it drove me to reply. I am not a typical woman...I'm a gamer, I don't wear makeup, I still wear cargo pants even though they've been out of style for like 5 years (they're comfortable), etc etc. I consider myself pretty but take no effort to artificially enhance it in any way, and I don't really care what others think about that. But I know the type of girl you're talking about...the 'stereotypical woman', obsessed with shoes, fashion and slut books. The sort of woman who squeals over Twilight (still haven't seen/read them, fwew), cute butts and spend hundreds of dollars on stupid crap. Those women bother me, strike me as shallow and...sadly...often pointless additions to our society.
Yet for every one of these women, I see a guy who is -JUST- as much of a shallow, stereotypical douchebag. The 'bro' who thinks he is just all that, who wears abercrombie and fitch (sp), watches movies which revolve around booze, tits and sexy women who LOVE nothing more than to dive all over the main male character for no apparent reason, and they do everything within their power to convince everyone that they are NOT gay. God that drives me nuts...the level of paranoia with guys being afraid of looking gay is just stupid. And when these guys are gamers....uuugh *shudder* you end up with this: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=287
Anyway, I think the genders are fairly balanced these days. It's still a little lopsided depending on where you live, but it's leveling out. Into what, I can't say.
Anyway. I've seen a surprising amount of civilized discussion for this topic, and it drove me to reply. I am not a typical woman...I'm a gamer, I don't wear makeup, I still wear cargo pants even though they've been out of style for like 5 years (they're comfortable), etc etc. I consider myself pretty but take no effort to artificially enhance it in any way, and I don't really care what others think about that. But I know the type of girl you're talking about...the 'stereotypical woman', obsessed with shoes, fashion and slut books. The sort of woman who squeals over Twilight (still haven't seen/read them, fwew), cute butts and spend hundreds of dollars on stupid crap. Those women bother me, strike me as shallow and...sadly...often pointless additions to our society.
Yet for every one of these women, I see a guy who is -JUST- as much of a shallow, stereotypical douchebag. The 'bro' who thinks he is just all that, who wears abercrombie and fitch (sp), watches movies which revolve around booze, tits and sexy women who LOVE nothing more than to dive all over the main male character for no apparent reason, and they do everything within their power to convince everyone that they are NOT gay. God that drives me nuts...the level of paranoia with guys being afraid of looking gay is just stupid. And when these guys are gamers....uuugh *shudder* you end up with this: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=287
Anyway, I think the genders are fairly balanced these days. It's still a little lopsided depending on where you live, but it's leveling out. Into what, I can't say.
"It seems to me that females in general are more likely to behave poorly than men, especially around strong men. They act petty and confrontational and are easily offended. They want control, and they throw tantrums and make personal attacks when they don't get what they want. These behaviors suggest jealousy and insecurity"
Ive seen this mostly in teen females. usualy want to tell them to grow up.
Ive seen this mostly in teen females. usualy want to tell them to grow up.
Not bad, not bad. Nice essay there. I agree with you at some point. But women actually have some characteristics, bad as they are. Fashion, talking in a very annoying way and shopping for 6 hours and returning empty-handed. So yeah, they basicly have their personallity, but it's kind of negative.
Charisma said:On the flipside, take the entire feministic movement - how do men react? We shrug and belch and grab another beer.
*Could that be because you are NOT a woman and thus it does not pertain to you in a way that would make you feel passionate about the subject? Where a person stands on an issue depends upon where he/she sits after all.
I don't mean to sound misogynistic. I'm definitely not a woman hater. What I am, is an observer. And what I observe is that women are petty and vicious, while men are demonstrably happier.
*Is that so? Then why do you go on to say this:
And yeah, there are exceptions. Lots of them.
In fact, there's so much evidence to the contrary that one might just shrug and let it go.
*Are you saying that you and some of the people you know who are male happen to be happy and therefore you are not noticing exactly what percent of men are unhappy? You have to be able to step out from your own perspective and look at it clinically and get a solid number-even if it is only a sample of 30 men or 100 men. How many are happy vs. not. Then see how many women are happy vs not. And I mean "unhappy" not simply "under stress" when you observe them.
Men have had thousands of years to develop a strong gender identity.
*So the Venus of Willendorf, the worship of women and the Goddess, especially by early man for the mysteries of being able to create new life just kind of slipped past you, hmm?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_of_Willendorf
http://www.themystica.com/mystica/articles/g/goddess_1_intro_and_history.html
And you've never heard of Amazons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons
But women? Women have no such identity.
*Women have Amazon warriors just like men have Spartans for strength and aggression. They also have the mothering aspect just as men have a fathering one. And they have an image of beauty and grace in youth, as seen in "The Graces" statues, they can also be seen dancing, weaving, or working industriously. Young men are seen in contests, races, and playing instruments in statues also.
*Then there is the wise, old woman just as there is the wise, old man. Yes, portrayals have tried to eliminate this for both but you can see the archetypes in the original Star Wars with Alec Guinness and a touch with the old women in Coraline-reminding us that old people are younger people in older bodies who have done and seen much.
Women have been subservient for so long that they've never had the chance to decide who and what they want to be, as a gender. Just think about it. When you think of a man, you think of sweat, muscles, always giving 110%.
*Again, see above. Or go watch "Mama Mia" or "Julie and Julia" or "Life Story/Race for the Double Helix" for ideas on women, their lives, and courage.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_Story
What is a woman?
*The reason you are here? ;D
*But seriously, women are seen as a mystic, creative force. The ability to provide both life and nourishment has held them in a position of awe in many cultures. Those abilities have been turned into the subject of rude jokes on t-shirts but is that because women envy men or because men fear and envy women?
See, the whole feminist movement was the first time anyone really thought that women needed an identity. Before that they cooked, cleaned, tended the babies.
*No. It is not. When people say "chivalry is dead", it is not only the role of men, but the societal role of women as well that has been lost. Men were to treat all women as ladies, and women were to be worthy of that respect. It provided a clear structure for both genders as to what was expected of them. Now both sides have to guess how to impress each other and the rules change for each individual.
*Have you watched a Glade commercial? Or a furniture polish one? What is usually portrayed? Woman as the keeper of the home is. Women were judged on their ability to keep a home neat, organized, and well-functioning. They were judged on their cooking and social skills. (Notice how many old shows have the boss coming over for dinner-the wife's efforts and the way the family behaved was being observed to see the deeper character of the man. If the wife failed, he could lose the big promotion.)
*You can also look biblicaly, if you like, for the roles of women over 2000 years ago. Proverbs 31: 10-29 basically says, "A good woman is more valuable than rubies. She can be trusted by her husband, she works to create goods to sell to the city merchants, she buys the food for the household and portions it for the family and servants, she gives to the poor, she makes sure her family has good clothing and the house is prepared for winter when it comes. Her efforts help her husband's standing with the Elders who run the city, her words are wise and her family feel lucky to have her."
*In fact, the woman handled a lot of the duties of running and managing the household so that the men had time for spiritual contemplation.
But I honestly hope they do some day, because I feel pretty embarrassed for women.
*We have always had roles. It's not like we are aimless marbles running around. We have had to fight to be allowed more choice in those roles since the patriachal movement swept through but we have role-models and goals. Honestly, have you never heard of Madame Curie or Susan B. Anthony? Perhaps you should do more reading and research. You have been paying attention to the male role models but not actually LOOKING for female ones. Even Queen Gordo from 300 who fought to gain the support of the people to send AID to her husband was a strong figure with political savvy. Open your eyes more.
Okay all done.
Agreed. It is amusing when women do envy men, though. The times I've observed it it's always been a woman envying her own (false) notion of a man.BonsaiK said:
Good thing you erected (see what I did there? So clever!) the shield. Quoting Freud on here is likely to attract flames.AWAR said:
Do bear in mind that Freud also thought we all wanted to have sex with our parents and that our first sexual experience was taking a dump.
You're generalising about half the population of the world, of course you're wrong.
On that note, almost every behaviour you pointed out is universal, not restricted to women, but (and it's not just you who does this) when a girl does it, "it's a girl thing". When a guy does the same thing, it'll be attrubuted to him as a person, How about we all stop grouping people together depending on stereotypes and treat them as individuls, hmm?
And I hope I didn't detect an underlining 'Womens place *identity* is in the kitchen'.
On that note, almost every behaviour you pointed out is universal, not restricted to women, but (and it's not just you who does this) when a girl does it, "it's a girl thing". When a guy does the same thing, it'll be attrubuted to him as a person, How about we all stop grouping people together depending on stereotypes and treat them as individuls, hmm?
And I hope I didn't detect an underlining 'Womens place *identity* is in the kitchen'.
This is just.. wow..
I mean, I know you did the whole cop-out of "If it offended you, I meant to offend you" - funny how that works, taking away all responsibility for your own actions.
But I have to say, you can't just stereotype women in that field, you claim that they are all one kind of person, but that's just not true. I'm trying to keep calm while i'm typing this because all of the rage building inside me is making my fingers shake, all I can say is that if those are your honest views of what a woman is, then you should actually *talk* to one first, instead of taking all your hate or "views" of women out on the internet.
I mean, I know you did the whole cop-out of "If it offended you, I meant to offend you" - funny how that works, taking away all responsibility for your own actions.
But I have to say, you can't just stereotype women in that field, you claim that they are all one kind of person, but that's just not true. I'm trying to keep calm while i'm typing this because all of the rage building inside me is making my fingers shake, all I can say is that if those are your honest views of what a woman is, then you should actually *talk* to one first, instead of taking all your hate or "views" of women out on the internet.
The main problem with your observation is that you're observing from a biased position. Most women could counter it purely by reversing points you consider positive or negative. In the exact same way that Douglas Adams did with Humanity and Dolphins.Charisma said:
Men react to things competitively because that's what social order and two flat-lining hormones lets them. Women react to things comprehensively because social order and seven wildly varying hormones let them. Any task can be performed well by either state (or mixed states where the social order is interrupted by status, position or environment), it's just in the way it happens.
Also, Women can open jars and Men can cry. Otherwise, vive la difference.
Definitely, and I actually think men are slightly less afraid of breaking these stereotypes, and I completely see what you mean by the dickhead stereotype.nativebelle said:
I don't think this is really what Charisma was doing.nativebelle said:
OP: I'm jealous that you arrange your thoughts better than me and say them better too.
It seems like there are many bad things that result from insecurity.
Why do people hate generalizations and stereotypes so much?
Surely it can't be because they think that if stereotypes exist then this means everyone/everything must abide by all of the stereotype laws/themes, or that all of these people/things SHOULD abide by all of these stereotype laws/themes. If this were the case, people should hate the MISUSE/OVER APPLICATION of generalizations and stereotypes?
(Apologies for poor wording.)
Surely it can't be because they think that if stereotypes exist then this means everyone/everything must abide by all of the stereotype laws/themes, or that all of these people/things SHOULD abide by all of these stereotype laws/themes. If this were the case, people should hate the MISUSE/OVER APPLICATION of generalizations and stereotypes?
(Apologies for poor wording.)
That "supposed to be" bit doesn't exist in my opinion, it's the interpretation of the individual, and from what I've observed women get this "supposed to be" for their gender far, far more often than men.Mudora said:
Sorry for not really being on topic :S.
I'd have to agree on most counts in this post.The Lizard of Odd said:
Entirely true, although, contrary to those first two words, I would helplessly differentiate myself from such people.
Unfortunate but true. The problem is, is that the big stars do this, and younger girls (and men, in some cases) view it as the social norm and want to do it. It's not viewed as cool by many people, but many more people, especially their friends, view it as cool. Do the math, it's going to happen at that rate.
Dude, women are awesome!
I mean everyone does dumb stuff. Guys have "guy dumb stuff" and girls have "girl dumb stuff".
Dumb stuff and odd behavior doesn't discriminate against gender. We are all guilty.
I mean everyone does dumb stuff. Guys have "guy dumb stuff" and girls have "girl dumb stuff".
Dumb stuff and odd behavior doesn't discriminate against gender. We are all guilty.
