THANK YOU! I was hoping this topic wouldn't get too far without a nanomachine infused reply.Truly-A-Lie said:
Are you a patriot?
- Thread starter Davvda
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Pretty much everybody hates America, but yes I'm very patriotic. America is a much better place than everyone thinks. Some people don't realize this until they visit a place without the freedoms that we are priviliged to have here.
Also we are not all fat, ignorant, gun toting, Obama bashing, Mountin Dew chugging sons o' bitches.
Also we are not all fat, ignorant, gun toting, Obama bashing, Mountin Dew chugging sons o' bitches.
Yes. I'm Israeli, and I believe firmly in my people's right to our thousands of years old homeland. I'm especially proud of having left a much easier life in America to come here because of my ideology, and soon I will be serving in the military to defend my country against those who wish to kill us and take our home.
In the Netherlands patriotism or nationalism is generally looked down upon. Except on Queen's day or when there is a big football event: then everyone shows their patriotism by getting drunk and dressing up like idiots.
While I don't doubt your sincerity, I think that conflict is a bit more complicated than that. On both sides.Ryokai said:
I live in England and I don't consider myself to be a patriot at all infact I hate it, it depresses me because there is so much wrong with it, Full of CCTV, fucked up judicial system that wont put people in prison or puts the wrong people in prison i.e the guy who handed in the shotgun or the people who defend their homes.Davvda said:
Nobody has respect for anyone and are all out to help themselves. Yeah I could go on, Hope to move eventually.
This.Dudemeister said:
It annoys the hell out of me when people who can barely speak English themselves whinge about keeping Britain pure.
"I hate deez immigrints hu cum ova heeere n stealz our jobs as I sit on my fat arse and claim off the government because I'm stupid and lazy."
My country could be worse, but I don't like it that much. I absolutely hate where I live too.
I find my country reasonable, I like parts of it, but I'm not a patriot. To me, patriotism means you like and support your country regardless of what it does. Frankly, if my, or any, country does or has something I like, I can just like that part. If I like (almost) everything and everyone of my country, then I'd still not call myself a patriot. Then I support the country on those merits, and defend it if neccesary for those reasons. Not because it happens to be the country I live in. And if my country screws up, I won't cover for it because it happens to be my country.
But I guess that's not the same idea of patriotism as Davvda has. Under my definition, liking the food or the music would never be called patriotism. Eating the food or listening to the music, depite liking other food/music better, because it is your country's food/music would be patriotic by my definition. And I most certainly don't do that.
Speaking as a Europian, I've always felt a bit... icky when seeing some of the U.S.-applications of patriotism. A daily, and mandatory salute to the flag and pledge of loyalty by little kids... Let's just say my country doesn't do that, and that I consider it one of the aforementioned good points.
But I guess that's not the same idea of patriotism as Davvda has. Under my definition, liking the food or the music would never be called patriotism. Eating the food or listening to the music, depite liking other food/music better, because it is your country's food/music would be patriotic by my definition. And I most certainly don't do that.
Speaking as a Europian, I've always felt a bit... icky when seeing some of the U.S.-applications of patriotism. A daily, and mandatory salute to the flag and pledge of loyalty by little kids... Let's just say my country doesn't do that, and that I consider it one of the aforementioned good points.
Well, let me think:
My country has an irrational fear of my ideology, when even the most educated of them rarely know what it actually entails. They, furthermore, cannot differentiate my ideology from fascism. Apparently to them socialism and fascism both sound scary and therefore must obviously be the same thing. Furthermore, I heard someone that I consider to be one of the more educated of my peers arguing that fascism was a form of socialism due to both having a command economy.
The people here listen to the most god awful music, and further spit in my face by trying to label it as punk rock. I swear, the next "punk" who I hear talking about how great Avril Lavigne or My Chemical Romance is might just mysteriously disappear.
Our culture has made Micheal Bay popular. Everyone has seen the Transformers movies, but if I want to discuss Quintin Tarantino with anyone the discussion is almost always limited to the one with Brad Pitt and nazis (a good movie, but certainly not representative of his entire career). Furthermore, people largely refuse to watch amazing foreign films like Pan's Labyrinth because they don't want to read subtitles.
On a more political and less cultural note- my country is still awful. While some American patriots will argue that America's government used to be good but not its government has been corrupted, America was not an example of anything this side of the French Revolution. The only thing we ever had going for us politically was that we were not a monarchy, but that was not true for long. Then for a while we weren't imperialist, except we were because Manifest Destiny was just a fancy word for imperialism. We have been imperialist ever since, although our modern imperialism is a bit more watered down to keep the appearance that we are a large benevolent world power when really we are a greedy, corrupt empire that will bomb to hell as many little countries full of brown people as it takes to assert our absolute authority over the geo-political balance. Furthermore, we were the last country to abolish slavery.
In short- I am not a patriot, and I would be almost offended to be mistaken for one. I will admit myself lucky to be born here, simply because I could have been born somewhere that was not at all industrialized and I could be starving right now. I would have preferred to be born in Europe, and will probably move there when I am done with my education.
My country has an irrational fear of my ideology, when even the most educated of them rarely know what it actually entails. They, furthermore, cannot differentiate my ideology from fascism. Apparently to them socialism and fascism both sound scary and therefore must obviously be the same thing. Furthermore, I heard someone that I consider to be one of the more educated of my peers arguing that fascism was a form of socialism due to both having a command economy.
The people here listen to the most god awful music, and further spit in my face by trying to label it as punk rock. I swear, the next "punk" who I hear talking about how great Avril Lavigne or My Chemical Romance is might just mysteriously disappear.
Our culture has made Micheal Bay popular. Everyone has seen the Transformers movies, but if I want to discuss Quintin Tarantino with anyone the discussion is almost always limited to the one with Brad Pitt and nazis (a good movie, but certainly not representative of his entire career). Furthermore, people largely refuse to watch amazing foreign films like Pan's Labyrinth because they don't want to read subtitles.
On a more political and less cultural note- my country is still awful. While some American patriots will argue that America's government used to be good but not its government has been corrupted, America was not an example of anything this side of the French Revolution. The only thing we ever had going for us politically was that we were not a monarchy, but that was not true for long. Then for a while we weren't imperialist, except we were because Manifest Destiny was just a fancy word for imperialism. We have been imperialist ever since, although our modern imperialism is a bit more watered down to keep the appearance that we are a large benevolent world power when really we are a greedy, corrupt empire that will bomb to hell as many little countries full of brown people as it takes to assert our absolute authority over the geo-political balance. Furthermore, we were the last country to abolish slavery.
In short- I am not a patriot, and I would be almost offended to be mistaken for one. I will admit myself lucky to be born here, simply because I could have been born somewhere that was not at all industrialized and I could be starving right now. I would have preferred to be born in Europe, and will probably move there when I am done with my education.
No. I'm from Massachusetts, the closest thing to a socialistic state in America. Patriotism frightens me.
In somewhat less facetious terms, I love the concept of what America could be, but I loathe what it actually is. And no, that doesn't mean that I'm one of those twats who wants to return us to the Constitutional model of America--America was never anything more than an example of cutthroat laissez-fair economics paired with nepotistic political corruption. But the earliest pipe-dream visions of it, when it was still being touted to frustrated British colonists as an exemplar of freedom and justice, before the reality of the world delivered a swift and brutal kick to their collective ass...that admittedly has a certain appeal to me.
Honestly, I've always kinda wished I lived in China...at least when they arbitrarily oppress various socioeconomic groups, they don't do it under the pretense of improving anything.
In somewhat less facetious terms, I love the concept of what America could be, but I loathe what it actually is. And no, that doesn't mean that I'm one of those twats who wants to return us to the Constitutional model of America--America was never anything more than an example of cutthroat laissez-fair economics paired with nepotistic political corruption. But the earliest pipe-dream visions of it, when it was still being touted to frustrated British colonists as an exemplar of freedom and justice, before the reality of the world delivered a swift and brutal kick to their collective ass...that admittedly has a certain appeal to me.
Honestly, I've always kinda wished I lived in China...at least when they arbitrarily oppress various socioeconomic groups, they don't do it under the pretense of improving anything.
Being patriotic is unpatriotic in America. At least, from the standpoint of someone who insists all the points against our favor be improved.
What constitutes as my country? The one I live in or the one I was born in?
I like my countries fine (both of them) but I wouldn't consider myself a patriot, the word suggests superiority and I would not consider myself superior to anybody else.
I like my countries fine (both of them) but I wouldn't consider myself a patriot, the word suggests superiority and I would not consider myself superior to anybody else.
I dislike a lot of things about the people who live here, and I dislike the cultures here. I dislike the common ignorance that is in abundance. I would rather live here than in a 3rd world country, but people here don't seem to think about things like that. They take their lives for granted. Our political system is a joke, a popularity contest, where no party does anything for the people, only for themselves and their friends. Freedom of press means that the papers are allowed to lie blindly, and the people are foolish enough to believe what they are told. I have lived in the US and Australia as well, and the situation is the same there. (I'm British by the way).
I appreciate my country, like I appreciate air. I don't feel the need to love it, or it give it anything more than it gives me
I appreciate my country, like I appreciate air. I don't feel the need to love it, or it give it anything more than it gives me
Nope. I've no love for this land. I like the healthcare system, and there's a number of decent people, but it's still a bit shit.
As a Brit - English specifically - I don't see a whole lot to be patriotic about. One of the biggest reasons some people are patriotic, at least from my experience, is one of the reasons I dislike the idea of patriotism. I'm talking about the British Empire; more cause to be embarrassed than proud, in my opinion.
More recently there's not been too much to be proud of.
Do I like my country? Not really, but it's all I've ever really known. I'd still defend it if it really came to (meaning another WWII styled conflict).
More recently there's not been too much to be proud of.
Do I like my country? Not really, but it's all I've ever really known. I'd still defend it if it really came to (meaning another WWII styled conflict).
Yes, but more in the manner of Ben Franklin than the crazy guy with a billion flags. My country is being f'ed by tyrants and I have to figure out a way to liberate it and bring it back to the government for the people, by the people. This country is now for the special interest groups, by the corrupt politicians (a fitting word, poli- is a prefix meaning many, -tics are blood sucking parasites).
Eh.
I guess the answer is no....
There's nothing majorly American that I culturally connect with that I'm conscious of.
My loyalties don't lie with borders, they lie with individual people I care about.
I'd also try to care my best for any human regardless of borders and nations.
Now would I fight if another country pre-emptively invaded America? Yeah, but more for my community and specific individuals than any sense of patriotism.
I guess the answer is no....
There's nothing majorly American that I culturally connect with that I'm conscious of.
My loyalties don't lie with borders, they lie with individual people I care about.
I'd also try to care my best for any human regardless of borders and nations.
Now would I fight if another country pre-emptively invaded America? Yeah, but more for my community and specific individuals than any sense of patriotism.
