Arkham City.... Sexist?

[Frostbite3789]

Snip

I didn't know we were calling laziness sexism. Must've missed the memo.

 

[370999]

I would not say Arkham City is sexist. I would just say that the writers are unimaginitive, childish, idiotic men.

I wouldn't say idiots. Definetly lazy in word usuage and possible too in love with sunglass and trenchcoat darkness.

 

[LiquidGrape]

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

This.
This on toast.
Thank you.

I wouldn't think of claiming Arkham City is consciously sexist, but it is indicative of a lazy and flippant incredulousness which is pervasive in this medium, and by extension, subculture.

The problem isn't sexualised content or gendered language (although I have my qualms about the latter in any circumstance).
The problem is the fact that there is no deliberate context provided for these elements to have any meaning.

 

[Zach of Fables]

Do they swear at Batman too? Because they didn't in Arkham Asylum. I remember that distinctly.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Wait, why is saying ***** sexist? Are people fuckin' stupid nowadays? (Sorry, not calling the OP stupid, just the authors of the articles.)

Now saying that a women should be in a kitchen or doing your laundry or making you a sandwich; THAT is sexist. Calling her a *****? No. Hell is it sexist if I am called a bastard? Is it sexist if I call some ***** a ****? No! THEY ARE JUST WORDS PEOPLE.

Now lets look at it from the games point of view: Catwomen, a prostitute, is kicking the shit out of murderers, theives, and rapists. THEY WILL FUCKING SWEAR, SHIT!

It's a gendered insult.
It's the very definition of sexist.

I'm not saying every possible use of the word is sexist, but I'm saying there are societal connotations to that word which invariably leads to a gendered conclusion.

 

[Dastardly]

Snip

I didn't know we were calling laziness sexism. Must've missed the memo.

Context.

The writers were not lazy when it came to thinking up a variety of insults and taunts for Batman... but suddenly, when writing for/about female characters, they default to "*****" and display no further effort. The laziness demonstrates the underlying sexism:

1. All of the female characters are characterized in the same way. (Strong woman = *****)
2. There are no other insults being used even nearly as much, if at all.
3. Even when there is a slightly contextual insult, it is seasoned by "*****." (Like calling Harley Quinn a "crazy *****.")

Don't make the unfortunate mistake of believing that the only "sexism" in the world is the malicious, intentional subjugation of women (or attitudes that favor the subjugation of women). There is a softer sort, in which women just aren't considered with the same care as we afford to men. It is especially true with comic book / video game characters -- most of the female characters appear "as designed by men" and are written for/about "as understood by men." And the male understanding being demonstrated is a woefully shallow one, at that.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

It's the BAD GUYS that are calling her a *****. It's the BAD GUYS beating her up. That means the game is taking a bunch of sexist assholes and saying, "See these guys? Don't be like them!"

"And while you're NOT being like them, go ahead and beat the hell out of them because they deserve it!"

 

[LiquidGrape]

I'm still wondering when such a large part of gaming journalists transformed into such a bunch of pathetic pussies.

Now, was that a conscious pisstake on the thread, or a case in point of the subliminal sexism we've discussed?

 

[everythingbeeps]

Poor dialogue? Fine. Calling the game "sexist" is giving it too much credit. The writers just don't know how real thugs would talk.

As for Oversexualized Catwoman...She's supposed to be oversexualized. Wasn't she a former prostitute in some of the comic book storylines?

The movies have ruined Catwoman. They just keep getting worse.

 

[JMan]

Hell one of the first lines that a inmate says in Arkham City is "I'm gonna make you my *****, Wayne" so I'm not really surprised that they say it to Catwoman also.

 

[-Samurai-]

Wait, people are arguing about a game being potentially sexist towards a fictional character?

Have you guys run out of real problems to talk about?

You murder people in some of the most inhumane ways in video games every day, but someone calls a female or two a *****, and that's a problem?

Seriously?

 

[ACman]

Now saying that a women should be in a kitchen or doing your laundry or making you a sandwich; THAT is sexist. Calling her a *****? No. Hell is it sexist if I am called a bastard? Is it sexist if I call some ***** a ****? No! THEY ARE JUST WORDS PEOPLE.

Now lets look at it from the games point of view: Catwomen, a prostitute, is kicking the shit out of murderers, theives, and rapists. THEY WILL FUCKING SWEAR, SHIT!

Calling a woman a ***** IS sexist.

Thats kinda the point; these villians are written as vile sexist thugs.

I think if the writers were were albe they would have the thugs call Batman ************/cocksucker/****/****** (for example.).

The "T for Teen" friendly swear ***** therefore seems overused and jarring while nothing comparatively offensive gets thrown at Batman.

It's seams that the writers/developers could have picked up on this. While its contextually appropriate for thuggish convicts to be vile it's inadvertently unbalanced by the fact that they had to keep it clean.

 

[JamesStone]

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll actually read the OP.
*reads OP*

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll elaborate, they're saying that it's sexist... because burly, stupid goons (correct word, they're henchmen) are calling Catwoman a '*****' when she is beating the shit out of them...

WOAH GUYS STOP THE PRESSES.
SHIT JUST GOT REAL!/sarcasm

I have nothing more to say on this matter, it's stupid.

I was about to say something, but every single word from my mouth was just stolen by this guy.

I never understood why calling "*****" to a woman is sexist (in a videogame/movie/whatever, by guys that are attempting to kill the character), but a female enemy calling "asshole" to a man isn´t (again in a videogame, I don´t want to be flooded with super rage thanks to misunderstandings)

 

[LiquidGrape]

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll actually read the OP.
*reads OP*

No, it's not, let's move on.
Okay okay, i'll elaborate, they're saying that it's sexist... because burly, stupid goons (correct word, they're henchmen) are calling Catwoman a '*****' when she is beating the shit out of them...

WOAH GUYS STOP THE PRESSES.
SHIT JUST GOT REAL!/sarcasm

I have nothing more to say on this matter, it's stupid.

I was about to say something, but every single word from my mouth was just stolen by this guy.

I never understood why calling "*****" to a woman is sexist (in a videogame/movie/whatever, by guys that are attempting to kill the character), but a female enemy calling "asshole" to a man isn´t (again in a videogame, I don´t want to be flooded with super rage thanks to misunderstandings)

Again, the issue is that "*****" is a gendered insult which at all times carries the baggage of being primarily derogatory towards a single sex.
Calling a woman "*****" is making a distinction of her sex as part of your insult.
Calling a man "*****" is reducing him to what is perceived as an inferior state.
I.e woman.

That is what is problematic, and that is what bespeaks this subliminal sexism. The game doesn't allow what is considered "harsher" language, but somehow ***** is deemed acceptable in spite of its connotations.

I think ACman hit the nail on the head with this post:

The "T for Teen" friendly swear ***** therefore seems overused and jarring while nothing comparatively offensive gets thrown at Batman.

It's seams that the writers/developers could have picked up on this. While its contextually appropriate for thuggish convicts to be vile it's inadvertently unbalanced by the fact that they had to keep it clean.

Like I've said previously, I wouldn't dream of accusing the writers of being consciously sexist. But I think there's a certain cluelessness to this which is worth addressing.