Arkham City.... Sexist?

[LeeArac]

So a bad gay calls a woman '*****' and then said woman gets to stomp on their (presumably male) heads?

Look, sexual politics in video games is my bug-bear, but that's not particularly egregious or insulting - her outfit may well be, but that's par for the course and - at least - consistent with a 'comic book' property.

There are plenty more offensive examples of that kind of institutionalized misogyny in video game design (Star Trek Online is a pretty heinous example from an American studio, and naturally some Japanese products take it to a whole new level), but this... really doesn't set my feminism sense a-tingling.

 

[Iron Mal]

Of all of the media acceptable curse words you can use to refer to someone, '*****' is probably the only female-specific one (you could have twat and **** but they're a tad on the explcit side for most games) while there are plenty of male specific ones that are easier to put in like bastad, dick, arsehole (which for some reason I have almost always heard used to refer to men), cockmuncher etc.

So when it comes to having the villains refer to the heroine in a way that shows that a) they've evil and b) they don't like her very much, ***** is pretty much the only word at their disposal that actually sounds natural and is fitting (I can't recall caling to many guys bitches or too many women bastards, just doesn't sound right).

Also, even if we were to ignore that issue of the lexicon being somewhat restricted in terms of how we can verbally insult women there's still the issue of context. This is the villains (who were more likely than not in the process of trying to brain the poor girl with a rebar or plumbing piece or something like that) who are referring to her as '*****', they're supposed to be horrible and nasty people (unless the person who wrote the article is a firm believer that villains shouldn't be too evil in case they start luring people to the dark path of villainry).

I personally think this is another case of someone trying to make a big, attention drawing title by throwing around the word 'sexism' without really knowing what it means (the thing that in this day and age does the most harm to the continuation of the debate for equal rights for women than anything else in my opinion).

 

[JediMB]

It's not like the antagonists couldn't just call her a "freak" like they do with Batman. Because she's just as much of a "freak" (in this case a person dressed up as an animal while beating people up) as he is.

I suppose it was an attempt by Rocksteady to make the enemies' reactions feel unique in both modes... and it sort of backfired.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

***** is very gender-specific as it is an explicitly gendered word. it is typically directed towards women, or towards men with the intent of comparing them to women unfavorably.

No it's not. In fact, just like with Fuck, the original meaning is largely unemployed. It's a meaningless swear word that is used by the criminals in the game as an insult towards Catwoman.

In the context of Arkham City, the word "*****" is used in a very gendered way.

They called her a *****. They didn't say women are less intelligent than men, they didn't say women belong in the kitchen, they simply used a swear word. Replace that swear word with anything else and it has the exact same impact. If that word was intended to be a sexist remark towards women, you wouldn't be able to replace it with a different insult. You're just making mountains out of mole hills. There's no such thing as being "unintentionally" sexist and as it stands, I'm fairly sure Arkham Cities writers did not use the word ***** in the context of insulting women.

 

[davisjones1287]

It's not like the antagonists couldn't just call her a "freak" like they do with Batman. Because she's just as much of a "freak" (in this case a person dressed up as an animal while beating people up) as he is.

I suppose it was an attempt by Rocksteady to make the enemies' reactions feel unique in both modes... and it sort of backfired.

It only backfired because they gave people too much credit for not being ridiculous.

 

[poleboy]

The article's actually fairly decent, but the sensationalist title makes people misunderstand it, I think. It's really more about the writers' lack of creativity than about sexism.

 

[Vault Citizen]

I thought it was only bad if the game said this attitude was ok? But the only people doing it are hardcore criminals and the game doesn't seem to be glorifying them for doing it (from what I've heard).

 

[Soods]

Are there any female baddies? If not, then it really is sexist.

 

[The Dutchess]

This rant against "sexism" is more offending to women than if there was actually sexism in Arkham City. Which it appears there isn't.

 

[Terminal Blue]

2. Catwoman was always sexualized, and look at Batman. Tell me all those muscle aren't there for fan service to the ladies.

They're not.

Team Edward is just as numerous and vocal as team Jacob.

What's batman's muscles are are is identification fantasy for a male audience. It's to do with what an audience finds credible and authoritative in other men, and how that audience would like to imagine themselves.

I'm not agreeing with the original post, just pointing out that this is extremely simplistic.

Cat woman is a character feminist should be proud of. She doesn't fit any female stereotype & she completely free to choose which side of the fence she wants to be in.

Ahem..

Spoiler

Did someone call for a stereotype?

 

[A. Manslayer]

Nope..still not giving a shit about sexism in game or cinema

 

[Iron Mal]

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

When accusations of 'this game is racist' and 'this game is sexist' and 'The Sims 3 is offensive to people with mental disorders' (that last one is real by the way, I wish I was kidding) come up pretty damn frequently it isn't that hard to understand why some people, myself included, get more than a little frustrated with this issue croping up again and again in some form, somewhere.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

And what other words would you have used that a) feel like natural dialogue for street thugs who likely aren't very well educated and don't have a wide vocabulary and b) doesn't violate the T for Teen rating (that's what I've heard it's going to be)?

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

There really aren't that many TV friendly insults for use against women (and insults do seem to be very gender-specific, even a seemingly generic one like 'arsehole' seems to have use specifically against men, I have never once heard a woman being called an arsehole) so it's not overtly suprising that '*****' is the first and only port of call (the only other words that come to mind as insults against women are: ****, twat, whore, slut, slag, hoe and dyke, notice how most of those aren't exactly very flattering and would probably be recieved as being more sexist).

Anti-men swear words are more common and varied because insulting men isn't considered to be as large a problem (we can take it, no problem) but the list of specifically anti-women swear words which aren't considered taboo or heinously offensive is considerably more limited because, as a general rule, we don't like insulting women and hurting their feelings.

It's like the whole 'you can't hit a girl' thing, it's fine to spew abuse at men because we probably deserved it and we can take it, not so with women so it's only natural that the tools for doing so are more limited.

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It doesn't show laziness, the word '*****' is an extremely common word to use in order to insult women, it's more natural to have the thugs spam the word '*****' because I'm sure someone who's job prospects don't reach higher than hitting people doesn't really have the poetic mindset or inclination to stop and think of a witty and biting retort in the middle of a fist fight.

It would be weird if the enemies had a wide plethora of retorts, insults and one-liners to throw at you unless you happened to be squaring off against an amatuer Shakespearian theatrical society (which would admitantlty be pretty funny).

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

This is not sexism at all. Sexism is an intentional, explicit hatred and contempt for women and the people who commit acts of genuine sexism are vile and evil people (I hold the same view towards all forms of discrimination).

People who think it's fine to beat their wife because she displeased them are sexist.

People who believe that women don't belong anywhere but the kitchen and take every oppertunity to remind us of this are sexist.

People who believe that all women are evil, heartless beings who exist solely to screw with our heads are sexist.

A video game that uses the word '*****' a lot isn't sexist, and if you feel that anyone is being reactionary or doing finger pointing then the most likely candidates would be those decrying this as sexist (without really understanding the enormity of the word and the history behind it).

 

[Ross Limmage]

its not sexist, lets put it this way if you got your ass kicked by a flying cat woman i would say alot more than just "*****" so be happy you bastard

 

[jumjalalabash]

Wtf else would they call her...

 

[Something Amyss]

What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing?

***** is such a common slur to throw around, I doubt many people consider its meaning or origin at all.

 

[davisjones1287]

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

When accusations of 'this game is racist' and 'this game is sexist' and 'The Sims 3 is offensive to people with mental disorders' (that last one is real by the way, I wish I was kidding) come up pretty damn frequently it isn't that hard to understand why some people, myself included, get more than a little frustrated with this issue croping up again and again in some form, somewhere.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

And what other words would you have used that a) feel like natural dialogue for street thugs who likely aren't very well educated and don't have a wide vocabulary and b) doesn't violate the T for Teen rating (that's what I've heard it's going to be)?

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

There really aren't that many TV friendly insults for use against women (and insults do seem to be very gender-specific, even a seemingly generic one like 'arsehole' seems to have use specifically against men, I have never once heard a woman being called an arsehole) so it's not overtly suprising that '*****' is the first and only port of call (the only other words that come to mind as insults against women are: ****, twat, whore, slut, slag, hoe and dyke, notice how most of those aren't exactly very flattering and would probably be recieved as being more sexist).

Anti-men swear words are more common and varied because insulting men isn't considered to be as large a problem (we can take it, no problem) but the list of specifically anti-women swear words which aren't considered taboo or heinously offensive is considerably more limited because, as a general rule, we don't like insulting women and hurting their feelings.

It's like the whole 'you can't hit a girl' thing, it's fine to spew abuse at men because we probably deserved it and we can take it, not so with women so it's only natural that the tools for doing so are more limited.

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It doesn't show laziness, the word '*****' is an extremely common word to use in order to insult women, it's more natural to have the thugs spam the word '*****' because I'm sure someone who's job prospects don't reach higher than hitting people doesn't really have the poetic mindset or inclination to stop and think of a witty and biting retort in the middle of a fist fight.

It would be weird if the enemies had a wide plethora of retorts, insults and one-liners to throw at you unless you happened to be squaring off against an amatuer Shakespearian theatrical society (which would admitantlty be pretty funny).

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

This is not sexism at all. Sexism is an intentional, explicit hatred and contempt for women and the people who commit acts of genuine sexism are vile and evil people (I hold the same view towards all forms of discrimination).

People who think it's fine to beat their wife because she displeased them are sexist.

People who believe that women don't belong anywhere but the kitchen and take every oppertunity to remind us of this are sexist.

People who believe that all women are evil, heartless beings who exist solely to screw with our heads are sexist.

A video game that uses the word '*****' a lot isn't sexist, and if you feel that anyone is being reactionary or doing finger pointing then the most likely candidates would be those decrying this as sexist (without really understanding the enormity of the word and the history behind it).

Everyone needs to read this. Not the rest of the crap Tin Man posted, just this.

 

[Something Amyss]

You clearly didn't read the film critic Hulk article... You really should. It makes the post you just wrote make you look a bit silly.

Holy shit did you expect them to actually read the article?

>.>

 

[Jungy 365]

Meh, it's not really anything to be all up tight about. It seems to me that it's used by the characters of a brutish/rage filled nature, and any one else who has any semblance of intelligence rarely uses such language (Batman, Alfred, Joker, Riddler, Mr Freeze, and Catwoman herself, to name a few), which makes me think that this is just a crutch the writers use to establish the characteristics of these characters in a way that makes sense.
Looking forward to the game, though.