Arkham City.... Sexist?

[Dastardly]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Calling a black person "******" is usually racist.

Calling a gay man "******" is usually homophobic.

But calling a woman "*****" isn't sexist?

It really depends on the context. Still, ****** is usually used as a pejorative to imply all black people are stupid/moronic/subhuman. ****** is used as an insult towards homosexuals, implying that they're subhuman/dangerous etc. ***** is a non-gender specific insults that usually refers to a person who is "difficult to deal with/stupid/intrusive/aggressive". ****** and ****** are both used to refer to a specific group of people whereas ***** is more similar in meaning to the word "Fuck" in the sense that it's nonspecific. The word "*****" does not carry the same connotations as ****** and ******.

***** is quite similar to "fuck". For example, when I say "fuck you" I'm not implying that I'd like to have sex with you.

 

[Vivi22]

They're hardened criminals-possibly-murderers who've been stuck in prison for years with nary a female to be seen.

Is it really 'out there' to think they might call a woman who is kicking their asses a '*****', and that they're just sexually frustrated?

This pretty much. We're not talking about members of civilized society referring to a woman as a ***** in casual conversation, we're talking about criminals, who probably have a plentiful supply of fragile macho egos getting their asses handed to them by Catwoman. I don't see sexism when I see such characters calling her a *****, I see appropriate characterization.

 

[Rems]

They're violent, angry gangers and criminals, most likely sexually frustrated and who would presumably have a poor education. It does not surprise me in the slightest that they call women bitches, especially a women beating them.

I mean come, one what are you expecting them to say? "Gosh darn that Catwoman".

 

[Furioso]

Well this whole thing is 100% ridiculous, and any point I could make has already been said, now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play Arkham City and enjoy every minute of it

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

Falling on deaf ears.

 

[Shaoken]

..What I find ironic is that the b word actually means 'Female Dog' ... so they're basically in the wrong to call Cat Woman the b word.

Yeah, I mean, they should call her the C-word instead, ya?

No one should call anyone the C word. That's probably the worst thing you can call someone besides anything personal against them. But, in truth I just was joking about them calling her the b word mainly because it's funny where the origins of the b word came from ^_^.

Off topic; In Australia and the UK, the C word gets thrown around a lot and is not a big deal. In Australia in some circles calling a woman that can be a sign of endearment. Different strokes, different reactions. Irrelevant to the topic at hand, just pointing out sociatal differences.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

I call BS; what other T-Rated curses can you aim at Catwoman? Bastard doesn't roll off the tongue as smothly, whore/slut/**** would never make it pass the censors, asshole seems to be one that is considered too hard for T-rated things for the states imo, and the rest of the ones suggested in this thread are just idoitic because they are so complicated that they're not natural; nobody is going to, in the middle of an intense fight, throw an insult at Catwoman that's a fucking pun! I mean think about it, how long did it take you to come up with it in a calm environment? How are these guys, who probably aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, supposed to come up with that while in the middle of a fight? Especically since in most of those fights the guys weren't expecting to fight Catwoman.

Also, they do use cat-related taunts during the predator sequences, since they're not under fire and have time to think about them.

It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

Again, what other curses could they use that A) Would not give them a higher rating and B) Make more sense to yell in the heat of the moment rather than the rather short "*****?"

Calling a black person "******" is usually racist.

Calling a gay man "******" is usually homophobic.

But calling a woman "*****" isn't sexist?

Nope. See in those two staements 95% percent of the time it is always used as the worst kind of insult you could throw at that group, both words have a long history behind them (of course there are exceptions to the rule, but those are always on a pesonal level).

***** doesn't have the same level of stigma behind it, "slut" would be on the same level as the other too because it is such a loaded insult that brings up the double standards between men and women. THAT would be sexist. Whereas *****, a word that a not inconsequential amount of women would use to describe themselves with pride, has nowhere near the same amount of weight behind it.

Apples and Oranges.

 

[Hawgh]

Quick! The Joker has escaped Arkham and taken over Kotaku!

Anyway, joining in with just about everyone else to state for the umpteenth time:

The fact that some random, angry, violent goons throw out sexist commentary as part of their quips does not a game sexist make. Sexist characters, maybe.
But they're also the kind of person who obviously don't see a problem with murdering, torturing and terrorising others, if the average plot of a Batman story is any indication.
And again, also likely to be in the process of getting a solid ass-whooping from the "*****" in question.
It's not a situation in which the average lowlife thug would stop to consider if their statements could be construed as hurtful and/or prejudiced. One even say that a dash of prejudice serves to nail home the idea that your average villainous minion muscle isn't exactly a developed, mentally balanced, modern human capable of functioning competently in society.

I don't think that they're the role models that we all aspire to be.

 

[LilithSlave]

You obviously don't know shit about Batman.

Wow, I'm taking quite the flak for that post.

I have indeed gotten some things wrong. Apparently Batman didn't get campy until the 80s. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding there. As a person who isn't a particularly huge fan of masked heroes, I don't keep up with Batman so indeed I wouldn't know that sort of thing.

I just kind of found campy Batman more entertaining.

 

[ACman]

The point that Kotaku is trying to make is that Batman doesn't get called anything comparable with anything like the frequency. And also the use of the word is excessive to the point that it becomes jarring and made the writer wonder about the attitude of the game writers.

And to all you clueless boys out there; it is sexist to call a woman a ***** (When intent is malicious). It's a gender specific epithet that denigrates the woman that it's target.

 

[cobra_ky]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

this. this post right here is the only response this thread really needs.

Calling a black person "******" is usually racist.

Calling a gay man "******" is usually homophobic.

But calling a woman "*****" isn't sexist?

It really depends on the context. Still, ****** is usually used as a pejorative to imply all black people are stupid/moronic/subhuman. ****** is used as an insult towards homosexuals, implying that they're subhuman/dangerous etc. ***** is a non-gender specific insults that usually refers to a person who is "difficult to deal with/stupid/intrusive/aggressive". ****** and ****** are both used to refer to a specific group of people whereas ***** is more similar in meaning to the word "Fuck" in the sense that it's nonspecific. The word "*****" does not carry the same connotations as ****** and ******.

***** is quite similar to "fuck". For example, when I say "fuck you" I'm not implying that I'd like to have sex with you.

***** is very gender-specific as it is an explicitly gendered word. it is typically directed towards women, or towards men with the intent of comparing them to women unfavorably.

In the context of Arkham City, the word "*****" is used in a very gendered way. <a href=http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation>As Kotaku points out, it's used almost exclusively in reference to the female characters. Batman doesn't get called a ***** nearly as often.

 

[DracoSuave]

I love that people are seriously entertaining the concept that Bruce Timm is lazy and doesn't know how to write for Batman.

 

[SonicKaos]

It's a T rated game... there are only so many things you can say without bumping it up to M, and it'd be stupid for the developers to do that just for the sake of adding a wider variety of swear words.

 

[Zhukov]

So, Kotaku recently posted an article how Arkham City might contain some elements of sexism. Take a look. [http://kotaku.com/5851358/batman-arkham-citys-weird-*****-fixation] What do you all think? Is the overuse of the word "*****" in this context just simply unfortunately lackluster writing? Or is it something more?

Some takes on this from others:
http://filmcrithulk.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/goddammit-video-games-the-first-few-hours-of-arkham-city-is-lots-of-fun-but-super-duper-sexist/
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.com/2011/10/will-arkham-city-be-this-years-other-m.html

People, people. Don't get so defensive about this.

There is definitely a problem with the "dialogue" in Arkham City, when it comes to over-use of the word "*****." Yes, the villains are "criminals." Yes, they're "mean." But the writers are lazy, and can only think of one insult to pile on all of the female characters.

They can't just use the same insults they use for men, or some more generalized ones. Nope, they go straight for "*****" and stay there. And every woman, really? They're all the same type of bad, such that it can only be termed "*****."

This isn't the kind of thing that is intentionally sexist, and no one is saying the writers hate women or anything ridiculous like that. It's "sexist" in that it shows a lack of real thought, originality, or variety when writing about the female characters. The unoriginal, repetitive use of any particular epithet shows laziness... but it just so happens this particular epithet is 99% of the time directed at women.

It's not the same kind of sexism, but there is clearly a problem there. Let's be grown-ups about it, rather than being reactionary -- some of us are acting like allowing the game to be called sexist is allowing ourselves to be called sexist... and if you feel that way, it's time to do some soul-searching rather than finger-pointing.

Quoted for truth.

Post of the thread right there, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[dantoddd]

Cat woman is a character feminist should be proud of. She doesn't fit any female stereotype & she completely free to choose which side of the fence she wants to be in.