Lilani said:
After that long post I made out for you, I almost feel a bit insulted you didn't address a single point I made :-\
Also, I think it's odd that you make a huge deal about women not being in competitive gaming, and totally brush off the fact that women are now 42% of the gaming industry's customer base. Last I checked, most games made are made for people who just play games. Developers don't take into account who is competing in game tournaments when deciding what game they should work on next. So to say that the lack of women in competitive gaming has or should have ANY sort of bearing on what games are made and whether or not they should appeal to women (or at least be gender-neutral, as I explained in detail in my previous post) is just ludicrous.
Stop throwing this "42%" like it is a fact. It is a statistic brought up by one or two sources, a number that is hovering on it's own with no substantial backing, a figure that isn't
felt in gaming culture or society because it fails to specify exactly what KIND of gaming these females are into - browswer flash games? iPhone games? I would believe that.
I can walk into E3 every year and see maybe <5-10% of the women there who are actually there for the games (booth babes don't count). On the topic of booth babes, where are the booth HUNKS? Oh wait, almost nobody would be interested in buying games from shirtless muscular men because jack-all female gamers turned up to the event!
I can walk into local cybercafe's at midnight and see maybe 1-2 girls out of 30+ guys who are there for an overnight session of LAN gaming. In my 6 years of WoW I haven't come across anywhere NEAR 42% females, saying that 4 million+ girls play WoW (it's got 10 million + subs so it's a fair sample) is unimaginable, unbelievable, it can't be felt and it can't be seen.
Stumbling across a female in Vent is a rarity. I dont' care if "they're too shy to speak up" or "don't want to identify themselves", that's their problem for being so hiding something they should be proud of. I can walk into a local gaming store like EB Games and see ~1 girl for every 6 guys. Gamer girls EXIST, but this "42%" figure is completely and utterly lacking any real impact.
What I probably CAN believe is that 42% of people playing Angry Birds on their iPhone are female, because I can simply look around the city and see that for myself.
I know you'll most likely reply "but women shouldn't have to prove anything, they don't have to prove they play games, they don't have to show their presence." Well if they to sit in the shadows and play in secret, that 42% means nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Guys don't have to show their presence either, so why do we do it? Why do we turn up to gaming expo's in huge roves, why do we rejoice in gaming culture, why do we have huge LAN fests, why are games were females are over-sexualized so WELCOME in the industry, why did Bayonetta, Lollipop Chainsaw and Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball sell so many copies? Such games should be flops if 42% of gamers are girls and therefore aren't interested, or atleast we should've seen a MASSIVE backlash, correct? Why didn't it happen? Where is their presence, I ask for the thousanth' time?
Moonlight Butterfly said:
Are you seriously saying to me that I don't care about gaming.
Really
I guess I'm totally imagining my massive games collection and the fact it's been my major hobby for 26 years. Thanks for telling me I must have been delusional all that time! -.-
At no point in any of my posts have I said that female gamers don't exist, and I honestly have no clue how you deduced that from my post. My point was that while female gamers exist, they are in a minority as you get deeper in the gaming culture. Do you understand what "minority" means? It means people like you exist, but compared to guys there simply aren't very many of you. Certainly NOT 42%.
Read my reply to Lilani above - I am simply trying to show examples of why female gamers aren't considered a big part of the equation at the moment. Because their PRESENCE isn't being felt. While guys move out in roves and openly show their interesting in gaming, females aren't doing it. Again, their presence isn't being felt.
Trying to say "but 42% play games!" is just sounding like a blind statistic at this point and nothing more.
theblindedhunter said:
Yes, the male majority absolutely plays a part in women being poorly represented in some games - but why should that be okay that they do that? The point of a lot of the discussion about it is that these male developers should have the wherewithal to try making good female characters instead of just throwing them in as eye candy or a damsel in distress. It is understandable if they do, in some cases more than others, but it isn't okay that they do. Every game developer and designer should be held to a higher standard than that.
And most of them do hold a higher standard than that. It's just some developers who resort to their own weird perceptions (or atleast what sells in the market) and base their games on that, if they are lacking creativity then throwing in some boobs is bound to grab attention. I'm saying that's alright as long as the MAJORITY of games don't become like that - and they aren't, it's just a handful of games which feminists are blowing on about (rightfully so).
theblindedhunter said:
This is just plain offensive. Women have to prove to you their claims of being interested in games and gaming? This is the thing that most makes the community feel like a boy's club. "Hey girls, I guess you can come into our clubhouse, but first you have to prove to us boys, the leaders of gaming, that you like it how we think you should!"
Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Girls were always welcome to the clubhouse. They just choose not to show up, they're either too shy, embarrassed or whatever - the end result is that this "clubhouse" ends up getting filled with boys.
This is what I want to say: "Hey girls, you are WELCOME into the clubhouse (it's not OUR clubhouse, it's belongs to everyone) - so please come in and show us guys that we're NOT the leaders of gaming".
See my reply to the above two quotes to see what I mean because I hate having to type the same thing in response to everyone
I'll eat my own shoe if anyone convinces me that 42% of the people in the above photos are women.
Those photos were just randomly searched of gaming expos. This time I didn't show tournament winners (because the lack of females in that department is scary), this is just random gaming expos.
