Yes. You obviously dont know the definition of the word "knowledge".The_root_of_all_evil said:
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But you've forgotten to realize that you have used NO VERSES to support your argument.PatientGrasshopper said:
Here's some I've collected off a few sites.
GOD CHOSE YOU (in the beginning) -
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Titus 1:1-2 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God?s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, (2) in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
2Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Deuteronomy 10:14-15 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it. (15) "The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.
YOU DIDN'T CHOOSE GOD, GOD CHOSE YOU -
Exodus 6:7 ?I will take you as My people, and I will be your God. Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD your God who brings you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
Deut 7:6 For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the power to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: (13) who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:1-2 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
1Pet 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Romans 9:11-13 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), (12) it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." (13) As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Romans 11:5-7 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. (7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Psa 33:12 Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple.
Psalms 106:4-5 Remember me, O LORD, with the favor You have toward Your people; Oh, visit me with Your salvation, (5) That I may see the benefit of Your chosen ones, That I may rejoice in the gladness of Your nation, That I may glory with Your inheritance.
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, (2) elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Ephesians 1:11-12 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (12) that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
2Tim 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
1 Corinthians 1:27-29 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; (28) and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, (29) that no flesh should glory in His presence.
Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
John 10:2-3 "But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. (3) "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
Romans 11:1-11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, (3) "LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life"? (4) But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." (5) Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. (6) And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
(7) What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (8) Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." (9) And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. (10) Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
(11) I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
GOD DRAWS YOU TO HIM -
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Romans 11:7-8 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (8) Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
Psa 65:4 Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple.
Jer 31:3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, [saying], Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. (7) So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
PEOPLE DON'T SEEK GOD
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Psalms 10:4 The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek [God]; God [is] in none of his thoughts.
Psalms 14:2-3 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. (3) They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.
Psalms 119:155 Salvation [is] far from the wicked, For they do not seek Your statutes.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 64:7 And [there is] none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
Isa 65:1 I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name.
Hos 7:10 And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the LORD their God, nor seek him for all this.
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
Matthew 18:12-14 "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? (13) "And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. (14) "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
LIMITED ATONEMENT, JESUS DIDN'T DIE FOR EVERYONE -
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Mark 4:10-12 But when He was alone, those around Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable. (11) And He said to them, "To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, (12) "so that ?Seeing they may see and not perceive, And hearing they may hear and not understand; Lest they should turn, And their sins be forgiven them.?"
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. (14) "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
(Christ died for His sheep, not the goats.)
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Romans 9:15-18 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." (16) So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth." (18) Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
Romans 8:32-34 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? (33) Who shall bring a charge against God?s elect? It is God who justifies. (34) Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, (14) to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
John 12:37-40 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, (38) that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?" (39) Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: (40) "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
John 10:24-29 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, "How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." (25) Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father?s name, they bear witness of Me. (26) "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. (27) "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (28) "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. (29) "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father?s hand.
John 10:14-16 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. (15) "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. (16) "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
John 17:1-11,20,24-26 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, (2) "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. (3) "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (4) "I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. (5) "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
(6) "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. (7) "Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. (8) "For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
(9) "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. (10) "And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. (11) "Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
(20) "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
(24) "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. (25) "O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. (26) "And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world..
("world" is defined) -
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
1Jo 5:19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
WE'RE BORN WITH A SIN NATURE -
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.
Romans 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. (8) So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Isaiah 59:1-4 Behold, the LORD?S hand is not shortened, That it cannot save; Nor His ear heavy, That it cannot hear. (2) But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear. (3) For your hands are defiled with blood, And your fingers with iniquity; Your lips have spoken lies, Your tongue has muttered perversity. (4) No one calls for justice, Nor does any plead for truth. They trust in empty words and speak lies; They conceive evil and bring forth iniquity.
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (6) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) "Do not marvel that I said to you, ?You must be born again.?
Ecc 9:3 This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead.
Isaiah 48:8 Surely you did not hear, Surely you did not know; Surely from long ago your ear was not opened. For I knew that you would deal very treacherously, And were called a transgressor from the womb.
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.
1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
{Notice that Gen.5:3 says "in his own likeness, after his image". This image is Adam's post-fall, sin-tainted image. This post-fall image is a blurred image of God; not the same image that Adam was created with (2 Cor. 3:18). Thus, like Seth, the rest of us are born with this sin nature as a result of the fall of Adam.}
Genesis 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21 And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.
NONE ARE RIGHTEOUS WITHOUT CHRIST -
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Ecc 7:20 For [there is] not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Mark 7:21-23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, (22) "thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. (23) "All these evil things come from within and defile a man."
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Ephesians 2:1-3 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, (2) in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, (3) among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
{Even the Elect are under the wrath of God, until they become saved.}
1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Romans 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. (8) So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
2Chr 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for [there is] no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before [their] enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;
Psa 143:2 And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified.
Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Jas 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.
Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; [it is] an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
IT'S GOD WORKING IN YOU -
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Psalms 37:23 The steps of a [good] man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Psa 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he [is] God: [it is] he [that] hath made us, and not we ourselves; [we are] his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
Proverbs 20:24 Man's goings [are] of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Isaiah 26:12-13 LORD, You will establish peace for us, For You have also done all our works in us. (13) O LORD our God, masters besides You Have had dominion over us; But by You only we make mention of Your name.
Isaiah 46:3-4 "Listen to Me, O house of Jacob, And all the remnant of the house of Israel, Who have been upheld by Me from birth, Who have been carried from the womb: (4) Even to your old age, I am He, And even to gray hairs I will carry you! I have made, and I will bear; Even I will carry, and will deliver you.
Ezekiel 36:26-27 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (27) "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished from their sight.
1Cor 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
1Cor 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which [was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
2Cor 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;
Hebrews 13:20-21 Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, (21) make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
2 Timothy 2:25-26 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, (26) and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Pro 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.
Matthew 7:16-18 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? (17) "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (18) "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
1Cor 4:7 For who made you better than your brother? or what have you that has not been given to you? but if it has been given to you, what cause have you for pride, as if it had not been given to you?
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
ONLY A REMNANT WILL BE SAVED -
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. (14) "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Rom 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Ezekiel 14:22-23 "Yet behold, there shall be left in it a remnant who will be brought out, both sons and daughters; surely they will come out to you, and you will see their ways and their doings. Then you will be comforted concerning the disaster that I have brought upon Jerusalem, all that I have brought upon it. (23) "And they will comfort you, when you see their ways and their doings; and you shall know that I have done nothing without cause that I have done in it," says the Lord GOD.
Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, (12) teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, (13) looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (14) who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Mic 7:18 Who [is] a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth [in] mercy.
Zephaniah 3:12-13 I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD. (13) The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid."
Luke 13:22-30 And He went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.
(23) Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, (24) "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (25) "When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ?Lord, Lord, open for us,? and He will answer and say to you, ?I do not know you, where you are from,? (26) "then you will begin to say, ?We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.? (27) "But He will say, ?I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.? (28) "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. (29) "They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. (30) "And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION -
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 10:27-28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (28) "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, (39) nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us [is] God, (22) who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, (14) who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
{In this verse the indication of past salvation is present reality. The converse would clearly be, "For we have NOT become partakers of Christ if we FAIL TO hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.}
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (4) to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, (5) who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
Isa 54:10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
Matthew 18:12-14 "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? (13) "And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. (14) "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 5:8-10 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. (10) For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:29-30 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 1:7-9 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, (8) who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Colossians 3:3-4 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. (4) When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (24) He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it.
2Tim 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [me] unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
1John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
1 John 5:4,11-13,20 (4) For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world, our faith.
(11) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. (12) He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (13) These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
(20) And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
Jude 1:24-25 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, (25) To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.
2Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 11:29 Because God's selection and his mercies may not be changed.
Psalms 55:22 Cast your burden on the LORD, And He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.
Hebrews 6:17-19 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, (18) that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us. (19) This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,
GOD IS SOVEREIGN
1 Chronicles 29:10-12 Therefore David blessed the LORD before all the assembly; and David said: "Blessed are You, LORD God of Israel, our Father, forever and ever. (11) Yours, O LORD, is the greatness, The power and the glory, The victory and the majesty; For all that is in heaven and in earth is Yours; Yours is the kingdom, O LORD, And You are exalted as head over all. (12) Both riches and honor come from You, And You reign over all. In Your hand is power and might; In Your hand it is to make great And to give strength to all.
Genesis 50:20 "But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.
[ This verse shows that God's plan & purpose will NOT be changed, despite man's attempt at doing so. Though man tries to change things for his own sinful purposes, God's will & purpose will ALWAYS prevail. ]
Psa 115:3 But our God [is] in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
Psa 135:6 Whatsoever the LORD pleased, [that] did he in heaven, and in earth, in the seas, and all deep places.
Isaiah 14:24,27 The LORD of hosts has sworn, saying, "Surely, as I have thought, so it shall come to pass, And as I have purposed, so it shall stand:
(27) For the LORD of hosts has purposed, And who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, And who will turn it back?"
Isaiah 46:9-11 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, (10) Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, ?My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,? (11) Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.
Jer 32:17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, [and] there is nothing too hard for thee:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
FAITH & REPENTANCE ARE DIVINE GIFTS -
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Acts 18:27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
2 Timothy 2:25-26 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, (26) and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Galatians 1:15-16 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother?s womb and called me through His grace, (16) to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
2Pet 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
1Cor 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?
1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
SECRETS OF THE KINGDOM ARE MADE KNOWN TO THE ELECT -
1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Matthew 11:25-27 At that time Jesus answered and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. (26) "Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. (27) "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Luke10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Matthew 13:10-11,16 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?" (11) He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
(16) "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;
Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
Luke 24:44-45 Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me." (45) And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
John 6:37,44-45,64-65 (37) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
(44) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. (45) "It is written in the prophets, ?And they shall all be taught by God.? Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
(64) "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. (65) And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Ephesians 1:17-19 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, (18) the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, (19) and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power
Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
I don't get why people argue THIS much about God.
I'm going to try and explain what I mean with this sentence: "I believe that the universe was created by a chocolate teapot that melted when all existence began. There is no way for you to disprove or prove it, therefore, I must be right!"
I'm going to try and explain what I mean with this sentence: "I believe that the universe was created by a chocolate teapot that melted when all existence began. There is no way for you to disprove or prove it, therefore, I must be right!"
SunoffaBeach said:
You can 'know' God exists through i) and iii) if not by ii)
And I know where to put an apostrophe.
Why would a God create us? I mean, look at us!SunoffaBeach said:
Also, I wasn't trying to be funny. I was trying to convey the fact that "I thought of it, but now I've thought of it you must accept that it might exist" is a flawed way to say you're right.
You can "know" aliens exist through i) and iii) and especially ii)The_root_of_all_evil said:
-Scientology
I agree. Don't make yourself out to be some self appointed 'Christian Theologian' and then back out of the forum entirely.MrGFunk said:
Note: an observation about this discussion so far... Lots of questions about the Bible. A book that sets out to provide answers. Major fail.
I'm not quoting Tom Masters. I don't know who he is. "God of the gaps" and the like are standard terms in the creation/evolution "debate" (it's not much of a debate).Trace2010 said:
...
Humans aren't the grand exception to evolution. We were not mystically placed on Earth fully- (or mostly-) formed. Our bodies -- brains included -- have much in common with ancient primates. Just, y'know, ask any biologist.
I don't have a background in anthropology, but both the "great leap forward" or theories that posit more gradual social development make sense from the perspective of someone who's studied cognition; neither requires that we assume that some kind of genetic switch was flipped and it suddenly made us smart and creative. Human intelligence isn't just a product of our neural architecture; it's a product of development (the process of reaching biological maturity). The process of learning allows new knowledge to be created and dispersed much faster than genetically-driven instincts can filter through a population. We're not alone in this -- most of the more complex animals are also excellent learners -- but we are the best. Over time we've managed to develop tools that super-charge this process, too: language, abstraction, metacognitive thought.
...
Science isn't "a new god." It's an approach to understanding the world around us. Science doesn't necessarily exclude God. There are just some conceptions of God that fare poorly under scrutiny. Some who study the world find that it affirms their faith; some find their faith wanting. That doesn't mean the tools they use to broaden their knowledge are a new religion in themselves.
Evolutionary biology doesn't aim to "refute God." But there is a particular conception of God -- God the grand iracle worker -- that is largely incompatible with a modern understanding of the world. In order to try to salvage him, creationists and "literalists" have turned him into God the deceiver -- a God that obsessively hides his miracles and weaves lies into every facet of the world. "The universe is only 6000 years old but God placed light from the stars already in transit so that it seems to us to be millions of times older! This was to show us the glory of his creation and test our faith!"
...
Logic founded on shaky facts goes nowhere. Look at Thomas Aquinas for some good examples.
-- Alex
I have one question:maximilian said:
If God is all powerful and God knows everything then how can anyone be responsible for their actions?
By this very definition, he knew everything you were going to do when he chose to make you so the responsibility for your actions are his and not yours.
I'm not trying to be argumentative because I think it's not beneficial at all towards the advancment of the christian faith but I see predestined salvation as something that has to be read into the scriptures. I mean how can two christians come out with two different meanings of something, and free will is something that I believe God has given me peace about.jordan. said:
1:9 If we(says nothing about we that are called/chosen/elect) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Romans 10:9-10 (King James Version)
9That if thou(says nothing about thou that are called/chosen/elect) shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou(says nothing about whosoever that are called/chosen/elect) shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man(not chosen man) believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:13
"for Whosoever(says nothing about whosoever that are called/chosen/elect) shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever(says nothing about whosoever that are called/chosen/elect) believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
These are just romans road verses not to mention others thoughout the gospels
to me these are clear that salvation is attainable to anyone not just those that are pre-set to be saved.
Just one question if God pre-chooses who can get saved. Why would he create people for hell with no way out. He would be punishing them for something they can not help. Thats like punishing a deaf person for not being able to hear. It makes no sense!
To me thats beyond cruel. That is not a just or fair God.
I have a hypothetical scenario for the OP.
Say there is a man, he has a wife, 2 kids, nice house and a well paying job. He is nice to his neighbors, gives money to different charities, volunteers his time at a homeless shelter, etc. Basically I'm trying to propose a man who is by all means a good person, but this man doesn't believe in God, not through any ill will, he just feels that religion isn't for him.
How can the bible justify sending this kind of person to hell when he dies?
Say there is a man, he has a wife, 2 kids, nice house and a well paying job. He is nice to his neighbors, gives money to different charities, volunteers his time at a homeless shelter, etc. Basically I'm trying to propose a man who is by all means a good person, but this man doesn't believe in God, not through any ill will, he just feels that religion isn't for him.
How can the bible justify sending this kind of person to hell when he dies?
Christianity is not a deterministic system - it argues that you are able to override your genetics and upbringing and thus you are responsible for your actions. God knows what you will do, but he didn't force you to do it (and in fact he offers incentives for doing the right things), so it's not his fault you did it.beddo said:
The larger question - is God responsible for not having prevented your action when he knew it would happen? - is much more difficult, and often put into the "mystery" category.
This is really the same question, with the same answer. God creates people with free will. Because he is omniscient, he knows that some of them are going to hell - but they will do it of their own free will, by breaking the laws. For the law to maintain integrity, for God to be "just and fair", it has to have actual consequences attached to it - God is perfectly within his rights to send everyone to hell if he so chooses. Fortunately, he is not cruel, and so the option to avoid hell exists.sneakypenguin said:
By that logic whether or not you get into heaven or hell depends purely on God's whim, since you just said he is within his rights to send a person to hell if he chooses. God could let the worst kind of people into heaven and send good people to hell purely because he feels like it.Robyrt said:
Not to step on the OP's toes here - here's my take on the situation.FenrirsWilly said:
Such a "good person" who has never lied, cheated, envied, etc. does not exist. ("For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.") Even if he did exist, he would still have intentionally rejected God, and thus fallen afoul of the 1st Commandment. To declare yourself so holy that you don't need to acknowledge the epitome of holiness is an insidious form of pride, akin to the comic book villain saying, "My plan cannot fail!"
Christianity doesn't promise that you will become a 100% good person upon signing up, and cover all the requirements for righteousness. It promises that Jesus will foot the bill for the difference.